Jobs

TH wrote:

Isn’t your vaccine status your private medical information?

Not necessarily.

Vaccination records have been required for children to attend public school for many decades.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) is to assure that your sensitive health records aren’t being disclosed without your knowledge. For instance, your employer or doctor cannot share your information with anyone not authorized to view your information.

Many jobs require you to get a physical or a drug test and that information is shared with your employer. Where’s the outrage there?

Maybe they are trying to eliminate the control group because of the differences that will soon become apparent? Maybe the vaccine isn’t as safe and they say? It sure hasn’t decreased the number of covid cases. I sure hope it doesn’t cause health issues in the future.

buckybadger wrote:

I am vaccinated. I think the Science makes sense to me. I am around vulnerable family members with cancer treatments, elderly, etc. and it’s something I did for them as much as me. If the Science doesn’t make sense to you or you don’t care to be vaccinated – that’s fine. I don’t have a ton of sympathy for unvaccinated people who become very ill.

With that said and out of the way, this “mandate” carries no leverage. It is not the government’s job to force something, nor is the government capable of doing so. We’ve went further than mandates…with LAWS for things like drug use, driving while drunk, murders, assault, theft, etc. etc. and cannot stop those either.

A “mandate” isn’t going to force people into a vaccine. If the goal of the government is to get people vaccinated, threatening them will not work. Incentives or scarcity are the best option. To repeat from earlier…when the vaccines were scarce, people were committing fraud left and right to get them at the expense of someone else and “cut the line”. It’s human nature to want something you can’t have or is hard to get.

Agree with most of what you said, but many companies will follow this guidance/mandate whatever you want to call it. Are you forced at that point? I guess that depends on how much you like your job.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TH wrote:</div>
Isn’t your vaccine status your private medical information?

.

Many jobs require you to get a physical or a drug test and that information is shared with your employer. Where’s the outrage there?

Because you aren’t being forced to stick a 1 year old vaccination in your arm.

Biden to OSHA: “Enforce my mandate.”
OSHA to Biden: “You and Congress shut us down.”

Angler II wrote:

Because you aren’t being forced to stick a 1 year old vaccination in your arm.

My question was in regards to privacy, which is what I was responding to.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TH wrote:</div>
Isn’t your vaccine status your private medical information?

Not necessarily.

Vaccination records have been required for children to attend public school for many decades.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) is to assure that your sensitive health records aren’t being disclosed without your knowledge. For instance, your employer or doctor cannot share your information with anyone not authorized to view your information.

Many jobs require you to get a physical or a drug test and that information is shared with your employer. Where’s the outrage there?

Umm. Uh, real far reach on that. Not even apples to apples.
Schools have paper work to opt out of those vaccines. Many kids do not aquire the vaccinations required to attend.

Your exemption for getting vaccinated is frequent testing. In my opinion pretty similar.

biggill wrote:

Your exemption for getting vaccinated is frequent testing. In my opinion pretty similar.

I was answering your question on the outrage. And the schools not any mandate. Kids do not need those shots to be in public schools. The schools ask for it but do not mandate it. Mandating shots is not within the law. Testing for a virus is what ever at this point.
How can you support a president who wants to mandate a new shot. And ruin jobs. Makes no sense. Being the same opinion if they were red or blue.

buckybadger wrote:

I am vaccinated. I think the Science makes sense to me. I am around vulnerable family members with cancer treatments, elderly, etc. and it’s something I did for them as much as me. If the Science doesn’t make sense to you or you don’t care to be vaccinated – that’s fine. I don’t have a ton of sympathy for unvaccinated people who become very ill.

With that said and out of the way, this “mandate” carries no leverage. It is not the government’s job to force something, nor is the government capable of doing so. We’ve went further than mandates…with LAWS for things like drug use, driving while drunk, murders, assault, theft, etc. etc. and cannot stop those either.

A “mandate” isn’t going to force people into a vaccine. If the goal of the government is to get people vaccinated, threatening them will not work. Incentives or scarcity are the best option. To repeat from earlier…when the vaccines were scarce, people were committing fraud left and right to get them at the expense of someone else and “cut the line”. It’s human nature to want something you can’t have or is hard to get.

What about those that got the vaccine and became very ill either from the vaccine or from COVID?

I also don’t have sympathy for people who smoke(both my parents smoke) and develop issue or people who drink heavily and develop issues or do drugs and so on but it is their personal choice to do and I respect that and wouldn’t wish harm or say they deserve what they got just because I don’t agree with their choice.

Bearcat89 wrote:

I was answering your question on the outrage. And the schools not any mandate. Kids do not need those shots to be in public schools. The schools ask for it but do not mandate it. Mandating shots is not within the law. Testing for a virus is what ever at this point.
How can you support a president who wants to mandate a new shot. And ruin jobs. Makes no sense. Being the same opinion if they were red or blue.

Once again, my comments and question was in regards to PRIVACY, not legality in regards to mandates. Stop misconstruing my question.

What about drug testing?

buckybadger wrote:

I think the Science makes sense to me. I am around vulnerable family members with cancer treatments, elderly, etc. and it’s something I did for them as much as me. If the Science doesn’t make sense to you or you don’t care to be vaccinated – that’s fine. I don’t have a ton of sympathy for unvaccinated people who become very ill.

That was actually one of the primary reasons I decided to do this too. I have a 93 year grandmother that is as frail as a toothpick and there’s no freaking way I was going to be around her indoors during holidays or family gatherings without it. My Father is also now 70 and a heart attack survivor and I regularly see him. I’d never forgive myself if I was responsible for making a family member sick.

The second reason was masks. We all agree that we hate wearing them. One of the perks of this was to avoid wearing them all the time. Well that has now been reversed in many aspects of society, which sucks.

The final reason was that my regular general practice doctor recommended it. I trust his medical opinion. I personally do not think he would advise me on something that would intentionally put me in harms way. When he told me to lose a few pounds, I did it. When he prescribes medicine for an ailment, I take it. I’m in no position to argue against it and doing so makes me look very foolish.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bearcat89 wrote:</div>
I was answering your question on the outrage. And the schools not any mandate. Kids do not need those shots to be in public schools. The schools ask for it but do not mandate it. Mandating shots is not within the law. Testing for a virus is what ever at this point.
How can you support a president who wants to mandate a new shot. And ruin jobs. Makes no sense. Being the same opinion if they were red or blue.

Once again, my comments and question was in regards to PRIVACY, not legality in regards to mandates. Stop misconstruing my question.

What about drug testing?

What about drug testing? That is a option. Not a mandate. Not anything that you have to do.

Bearcat89 wrote:

What about drug testing? That is a option. Not a mandate. Not anything that you have to do.

I thought employers were required to have their CDL drivers submit to drug and alcohol testing.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bearcat89 wrote:</div>
What about drug testing? That is a option. Not a mandate. Not anything that you have to do.

I thought employers were required to have their CDL drivers submit to drug and alcohol testing.

Could be. I dont have a cdl. You are veering way off the path on this one to prove a point about a new vaccine mandate lol.
Would assume drug testing is to make sure you aren’t fd up driving a company vehicle. Physical is to make sure you can do the job at hand. Making you take a new vaccine isn’t even close to the same.

Stanley wrote:

What about those that got the vaccine and became very ill either from the vaccine or from COVID?

I also don’t have sympathy for people who smoke(both my parents smoke) and develop issue or people who drink heavily and develop issues or do drugs and so on but it is their personal choice to do and I respect that and wouldn’t wish harm or say they deserve what they got just because I don’t agree with their choice.

That chances of getting very ill from the vaccine are far far lower than the chances of being very ill / dying from contracting covid while unvaxxed. More than 5.7 billion vaccine doses have been administered world wide.

The personal choice to drink or smoke doesn’t affect others, and when it does – it’s banned. Remember when we used to smoke in restaurants? Refusing to take a free, safe, and widely available vaccine makes you a risk to society when there is a highly contagious virus that has killed more than 4.5 million people.

Mike wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Stanley wrote:</div>
What about those that got the vaccine and became very ill either from the vaccine or from COVID?

I also don’t have sympathy for people who smoke(both my parents smoke) and develop issue or people who drink heavily and develop issues or do drugs and so on but it is their personal choice to do and I respect that and wouldn’t wish harm or say they deserve what they got just because I don’t agree with their choice.

That chances of getting very ill from the vaccine are far far lower than the chances of being very ill / dying from contracting covid while unvaxxed. More than 5.7 billion vaccine doses have been administered world wide.

The personal choice to drink or smoke doesn’t affect others, and when it does – it’s banned. Remember when we used to smoke in restaurants? Refusing to take a free, safe, and widely available vaccine makes you a risk to society when there is a highly contagious virus that has killed more than 4.5 million people.

Please cite where getting the vaccine reduces your viral load and from passing it to others. To my knowledge the CDC has even themselves confirmed you can still carry and pass the virus even while vaxxed. So far it has been shown to reduce hospitalizations and severe cases.

So you are not doing anyone else any good by getting the vaccine except for yourself if you are in a risk category.

So again this should be a personal decision, NOT MANDATED TO KEEP YOUR JOB.

Bearcat89 wrote:

Could be. I dont have a cdl. You are veering way off the path on this one to prove a point about a new vaccine mandate lol.
Would assume drug testing is to make sure you aren’t fd up driving a company vehicle. Physical is to make sure you can do the job at hand. Making you take a new vaccine isn’t even close to the same.

biggill wrote:

Many jobs require you to get a physical or a drug test and that information is shared with your employer. Where’s the outrage there?

Drug testing was part of the question I asked. And again, in reference to privacy and HIPAA. I’m not the one veering off.

Think you guys can get the replies to 300?
The topic was exhausted at 50.

For those who believe getting the Vaccine that they can now snuggle with grandma, that is far from the truth and may be giving some false sense of security from covid. If that was part of your reasoning, that one is not viable.

As far as the whole HIPAA and drug testing for employment or CDL, your agreeing to drug testing, and signing the forms, which authorizes them to receive your results, hence the HIPAA requirements are followed.

Matt, or big gill. How ever you like to be addressed these days. Mandated vaccine for America and a physical that you volunteer and sign up for or drug test are not even related. Im sure you have 7000 more things to say. So I will check out on this one. But I see you have still never been wrong since big gill days.

TH wrote:

I’ve been sitting back reading this thread with popcorn. Refusing medical care to the unvaccinated would be like refusing care to smokers with COPD or heart disease, alcoholics with liver disease or car accident victims who were drunk. Kinda goes against EMTALA which is law. Isn’t your vaccine status your private medical information? What about HIPPA which is law too? You can’t have it both ways.

Roger that
Agree with drunk drivers, welfare, FDA officials resigning, pressing the COVID issue at the expense of the “real” issues and a media ( both sides who are not fact checking, fact sharing or in any way approaching journalism from the “let’s get the truth out there. The media should be the one with a mandate to share “just the facts ma’am”

Mike wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Stanley wrote:</div>
What about those that got the vaccine and became very ill either from the vaccine or from COVID?

I also don’t have sympathy for people who smoke(both my parents smoke) and develop issue or people who drink heavily and develop issues or do drugs and so on but it is their personal choice to do and I respect that and wouldn’t wish harm or say they deserve what they got just because I don’t agree with their choice.

That chances of getting very ill from the vaccine are far far lower than the chances of being very ill / dying from contracting covid while unvaxxed. More than 5.7 billion vaccine doses have been administered world wide.

The personal choice to drink or smoke doesn’t affect others, and when it does – it’s banned. Remember when we used to smoke in restaurants? Refusing to take a free, safe, and widely available vaccine makes you a risk to society when there is a highly contagious virus that has killed more than 4.5 million people.

A coworker and her boyfriend both late 20’s were very pro vaccine and both got the first shot. He had a very bad reaction and neither have had the second shot nor want it. I know a very small sample but there are many more if you choose to look.

What about second hand smoke? How many years were kids (myself included) forced to be around it because of their parents choice. Last I checked it’s still legal for a parent to smoke in their car or home when children are present. Tell all the people that have lost loved ones to drinking and driving that it is banned so it shouldn’t affect them anymore.

Edit: full disclaimer, I had COVID in January and my wife and 3 boys just recently had it. Wife is still not 100% but is still against getting the vaccine.

big_g wrote:

which authorizes them to receive your results,

If you don’t you would not be not be allowed to perform the work under federal law.

Please help me understand the difference and if it’s that different, please provide a better analogy to help me understand.

HIPAA is protection of your medical information from being shared by those who have it, ie: medical clinics and hospitals.

An employer asking for your immunization record is not covered under HIPAA.

Somehow this point has veered off to assume I mean vaccine mandates are legal.

biggill wrote:

An employer asking for your immunization record is not covered under HIPAA.

Then why do they have to ask you ? I think its semantics, if you want the job and they make it a condition of employment, then that is perfectly within their rights, like the drug test or physical. Either way, they have to ask you for your immunization records, which you would authorize, hence following HIPAA guidelines.

big_g wrote:

Either way, they have to ask you for your immunization records, which you would authorize, hence following HIPAA guidelines.

No. But ok. I’ll play along anyway. Then refuse your vaccination records. That’s perfectly acceptable under the “mandate”. Submit to regular testing.

Several US senators and representatives don’t seem to understand HIPAA either.

Do welfare recipients have to show vaccination paperwork to receive there payments??

My sister and bil got vaccinated back in February, the 2 shot one. They have both been sick with covid for the last few days, good friends of mine also got vaccinated around the same time, yep you guessed it they both got covid here in the last month. My best friends wife got her first shot a week or so ago and hasn’t felt the same since. My father in law had covid last year, very mild symptoms, got vaccinated this spring he was sick for days, fever etc..

I’m not anti vaccination, but this “flu” shot covid vaccination I will not be taking any time soon.
At the end of the day it’s up to me. That’s what the land of free is about. That’s where everyone is missing the point IMO. When your ordered to take a vaccination or loose your job that’s Bs!

Just like I fish walleyes and don’t plan on starting fishing for grass carp I mean Bass..😊

Justin riegel wrote:

Please cite where getting the vaccine reduces your viral load and from passing it to others. To my knowledge the CDC has even themselves confirmed you can still carry and pass the virus even while vaxxed. So far it has been shown to reduce hospitalizations and severe cases.

So you are not doing anyone else any good by getting the vaccine except for yourself if you are in a risk category.

Here is what I found:

However, vaccinated people with Delta might remain infectious for a shorter period, according to researchers in Singapore who tracked viral loads for each day of COVID-19 infection among people who had and hadn’t been vaccinated. Delta viral loads were similar for both groups for the first week of infection, but dropped quickly after day 7 in vaccinated people4.

source

Some more:

The results, published in a preprint on 19 August1, suggest that both vaccines are effective against Delta after two doses, but that the protection they offer wanes with time. The vaccine made by Pfizer in New York City and BioNTech in Mainz, Germany, was 92% effective at keeping people from developing a high viral load — a high concentration of the virus in their test samples — 14 days after the second dose. But the vaccine’s effectiveness fell to 90%, 85% and 78% after 30, 60 and 90 days, respectively.

The study shows that vaccinated people who become infected with the Delta variant carry high peak levels of virus. When the Alpha variant was dominant in the United Kingdom, vaccinated people who became infected had much lower peak viral loads.

The implications of this aren’t clear, Walker says. “Most of our tests are monthly; we can’t really say very much at all about how long people are infectious for and particularly whether that’s different with Delta,” she says. “Anyone who thinks that if they get infected having been vaccinated, they can’t transmit — that isn’t likely to be true.”

source

gregory wrote:

My sister and bil got vaccinated back in February, the 2 shot one. They have both been sick with covid for the last few days, good friends of mine also got vaccinated around the same time, yep you guessed it they both got covid here in the last month. My best friends wife got her first shot a week or so ago and hasn’t felt the same since. My father in law had covid last year, very mild symptoms, got vaccinated this spring he was sick for days, fever etc..

Gregory, you can still get sick after vaccination. There isn’t a single vaccine out there that is 100% prevention from getting sick. What the vaccine does very well is keep the majority of people out of the hospital, upwards of 90%. The CDC reported that over 98% of the cases in hospitals in the US in July and August were unvaccinated.

The CDC defines a mild or moderate case as one you can recover from at home, so the people you mentioned are having a mild breakthrough case even though they may seem very sick. I hope your sister feels better soon and recovers.