Is Honesty Really the Best Policy?

B-man wrote:

Biggill, don’t sweat it. I’m glad it’s done and over with, and extremely glad your buddies footed the bill.

It’s hard to tell friends to stop from doing something that is “mildly” illegal. I don’t yell at my friends if they don’t have their seatbelt on or are driving over the speed limit….. People break the law all the time, including myself.

A story came to mind right away when I read your post.

About 15 years ago I was duck hunting with a couple buddies, and a buddy’s brother who had a couple friends with.

The guys that I hardly knew kept shooting at ducks into dark, as we were picking up decoys with unloaded guns. Sure as ship, the warden was there to greet everyone when we got to the landing……

He said that he was writing two after-hours tickets…..He let the group talk it over. My buddy’s brother was on probation for another offense and asked if I would take the ticket and he would pay for it…..

I grudgingly aggreed….and learned a life lesson….because he never paid me back…..

I’m glad it all worked out for you, and that your buddies owned up to it, even though the ticket is still in your name.

Anyways, to lighten it up a bit….please tell me Emily or Valerie weren’t part of the citation

If you get a minute shoot me a pm with a report boss

One was female but I didn’t catch her name. The young buck took most of the lead, she basically just supported him. She seemed very uncomfortable since the beginning though.

I’ll gladly shoot you a report. Might be very late tonight after hockey.

The vikes play Friday.

slipbob_nick wrote:

The vikes play Friday.

He needs a pick-me-up, not another bummer!

Good point pool2fool.

Ice fishing isn’t too far out, and bow seasons right around the corner.

Never admit guilt, I thought we learned that from the juice himself ( oj)

11 more days before you can take your frustrations out on a flock of geese. Think on the bright side.

Yea, I think I may have to side with the law on this one. If I understand correctly, you had an illegal fire in a national park and got a ticket because you were the one there and on (at least one of) the permits.

The current situation probably doesn’t help: we have unprecedented wildfires in the nation, firefighters are traveling and working themselves to the bone, some are dying. I dunno where you were but until yesterday we didn’t have rain at MSP for 14 days. If these guys are rangers it is likely they have firefighter friends and might be justifiably salty at someone breaking fire rules.

Beyond that, those rangers work to keep the parks in a condition so that people can enjoy the outdoors (rainy years or not). You can argue that “ash is organic” but it impacts the natural state and hangs around for a long time. Having gone on several trips where we have to haul our poop and ash out and only leave urine and strained dish water I respect the efforts of rangers to minimize human impact on awesome natural places.

If your friends paid the price, and it isn’t “on your record” what is the loss?

I thought they were your friends camping with you?

I would have told them I’d put the fire out, I’m not paying for a ticket. Then when the COs asked I’d say I told the idiots to put it out it was illegal but they wouldn’t listen. They’ll be back soon, you can wait here if you like. Beers in the cooler.

Then I would have kicked the CO in the nuts and grabbed his gun.

Damn…I can’t read any more responses after page 1.

The point is plain and simple…it wasn’t your fire! Call and explain what happened. If they ignor you or say to fight it in court, prove to them you weren’t even at the park that day (heck-they wrote the wrong date down). Provid your time card if needed.

I love law enforcement but it doesn’t always make the right, we all human.

Have the utmost respect for police officers and CO’s. They have a tough job. But just like police officers some CO’s seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

Ron wrote:

My name’s on the camping permit. I sign it to acknowledge that I have read the rules. I make it clear that nobody violates the rules. Thus, no irate rangers.

There’s a new book titled “Gunflint burning”. It tells the story of the fire accidentally started by a camper in the BWCA a few years ago. Millions of dollars spent fighting the fire on both sides of the border. After an extensive investigation, the camper was charged and he then committed suicide. Makes you think a little about fire safety.

Gonna need to grab that book.

Does raise an important thing to ponder. With the fires in California and Canada it’s possible these guys are 1 getting sick of unauthorized fires and 2 betting pressure from the brass to come down on it.

If it’s still bothering you contact a supervisor and let them know. This is something where if the court was close I’d go plead not guilty and see what happens.

I got a ticket for violating a no wake zone when I had a bathroom emergency. The LEO was ok about it in that he let me use the bathroom while he wrote the ticket. But then I got the third degree in terms of questions about boat safety devices, etc. (all of which passed) The citation is a permanent part of my criminal record. The moral of the story is, shi* happens!

john23 wrote:

I got a ticket for violating a no wake zone when I had a bathroom emergency. The LEO was ok about it in that he let me use the bathroom while he wrote the ticket. But then I got the third degree in terms of questions about boat safety devices, etc. (all of which passed) The citation is a permanent part of my criminal record. The moral of the story is, shi* happens!

Man up! I bet @mdmoen would’ve dropped that thing right over the side of the boat

I fought a ticket once that said the wrong information on it. If the guy doesn’t know the date time and place how does he know it was your fire

The citation is a permanent part of my criminal record.

Citations are not a part of your “criminal record” because they are not given out for criminal acts, only for rule violations. They don’t show up on background checks or credit applications or pretty much anything. Maybe your insurance company will frown about your driving habits when you get a citation for speeding, but that’s about it. This. Is. No. Big. Deal.

Bearcat89 wrote:

I fought a ticket once that said the wrong information on it. If the guy doesn’t know the date time and place how does he know it was your fire

But did you win?

All searches that I found said all they need to do is prove that it’s a typo, which it clearly is. He wrote 8/8/18 instead of 8/18/18. I’m sure his time card and float plan will clearly show the correct time and date. They checked for warrants on me so I’m guessing there’s record of that and maybe some kind of report on the contact. I’m guessing there are numerous ways they can prove the correct date.

mplspug wrote:

Then I would have kicked the CO in the nuts and grabbed his gun.

Now you’re speaking my language.

tindall wrote:

The current situation probably doesn’t help: we have unprecedented wildfires in the nation, firefighters are traveling and working themselves to the bone, some are dying. I dunno where you were but until yesterday we didn’t have rain at MSP for 14 days. If these guys are rangers it is likely they have firefighter friends and might be justifiably salty at someone breaking fire rules.

I don’t think that’s relevant at all. If they are going to enforce the rules, enforce them. By doing it only during times of dry weather is utterly pointless. The point is to prevent wildfires, not punish those who are responsible for them.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy… but as J J said earlier, sometimes your best off saying nothing. It’s your right and that is being honest too.

^^^

As much as I’d love to be a good cooperative citizen, it doesn’t seem to be of any benefit to me or the park to divulge any more than I need to. Lesson learned.

I’ve watched dozens of YouTube videos of scumbags who like to film themselves harassing cops only to try and get a cop to make a mistake violate their rights. As low life as these guys are, they are actually educating people about our actual rights and how law enforcement is sometimes trained to stretch the rules to gain an upper hand. All at the expense of the uninformed.

We all have our own opinions of honesty I guess.

Similar to a citation showing up on a background check…they do. A new employer might feel the applicant can’t follow rules, or doesn’t care about rules.

I know of a “Pro” guide that has a over limit in his background. It regularly gets brought up in conversation even though he says his clients can’t count and he took one for the team.

Hey……. i think i know that guy!

pool2fool wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>john23 wrote:</div>
I got a ticket for violating a no wake zone when I had a bathroom emergency. The LEO was ok about it in that he let me use the bathroom while he wrote the ticket. But then I got the third degree in terms of questions about boat safety devices, etc. (all of which passed) The citation is a permanent part of my criminal record. The moral of the story is, shi* happens!

Man up! I bet @mdmoen would’ve dropped that thing right over the side of the boat

Would’ve gotten a ticket for “bow riding”

You guys have completely missed the real lesson.

NEVER,EVER be the FIRST one back from fishing!

^ Winner Joe!

Similar to a citation showing up on a background check…they do.

Interesting. I’m in a forensic setting and we run them almost daily. There are different kinds – and different sources. Far and away most places running a “background check” only check for criminal behavior so pull ones listing Felonies and Misdemeanors, and citations never get seen. On the other hand, your insurance company is specifically going out looking for those minor ticketed infractions.
Either way, the idea that a ticket for a campfire is going down on my “permanent criminal record” is spurious and way over-stating things.

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pool2fool wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>john23 wrote:</div>
I got a ticket for violating a no wake zone when I had a bathroom emergency. The LEO was ok about it in that he let me use the bathroom while he wrote the ticket. But then I got the third degree in terms of questions about boat safety devices, etc. (all of which passed) The citation is a permanent part of my criminal record. The moral of the story is, shi* happens!

Man up! I bet @mdmoen would’ve dropped that thing right over the side of the boat

Would’ve gotten a ticket for “bow riding”

Not if he passed him port to port

Bearcat89 wrote:

I fought a ticket once that said the wrong information on it. If the guy doesn’t know the date time and place how does he know it was your fire

Almost never works. Depends on the judge.

They can amend the date the important thing is you appear when requested. They had the fire and they had you they weren’t gonna wait around for the guy that lit it to return as long as you were part of the party. Glad the guys are paying for it. Life goes on.

As referenced by BK and others the best policy when being questioned is to be honest but answer only exactly what they are asking. Yes and no responses are your best option. In my job I have been audited several times and we brought in former auditors to coach us… the number one sign of being misleading is that more information a person gives the more likely they are not being completely honest.

Very difficult however when nervous as typically we talk more when uncomfortable and auditors/enforcement most definitely use this to their advantage.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

Similar to a citation showing up on a background check…they do.

Interesting. I’m in a forensic setting and we run them almost daily. There are different kinds – and different sources. Far and away most places running a “background check” only check for criminal behavior so pull ones listing Felonies and Misdemeanors, and citations never get seen. On the other hand, your insurance company is specifically going out looking for those minor ticketed infractions.
Either way, the idea that a ticket for a campfire is going down on my “permanent criminal record” is spurious and way over-stating things.

I got convicted of a petty misdemeanor for my no wake ticket, same as a standard speeding ticket and by definition not a crime. It’s a permanent part of my record (call it a court record if you like) but I’m confident it will never have any impact on me whatsoever. That was sort of my point. It’s not a big deal at all. The time it would take to fight is worth more than the cost of the ticket in most cases. What I did get from my ticket is a $150 poop story that will live as long as the record of my violation.