Youth Shotguns

So my twin boy’s birthday is coming up, they are getting tired of dad shooting all the birds. I’ve been shopping for shotguns for them for upland game, I was thinking a youth model 20ga pumps like the Rem 870 or Moss 500 bantam. I know there is discussion regarding 12 vs 20, I just don’t think they are at the 12 point yet. They have been walking along with me for the last few years, they carried a single 20 last year for the first time. So what are your thoughts on these two firearms yay or nay? Any other ideas? Thanks for the feedback, I’ve got two weeks to make this happen or not!

What is your goal regarding the lifespan of the shotguns? Are these strictly “starter” guns that will be sold off after a few years and the proceeds used to purchase different shotguns? Or are you looking at something they will keep?

What is the budget?

And finally, is this new only so they will have matching “NIB” shotguns? Knowing siblings, I suspect that the political reality is that this must be the case, but thought I’d ask.

It is hard to beat the 870. In terms of getting a youth gun, the 870 has the advantage of having so many aftermarket parts available, so you can easily restock the gun with matching stock/fore and bring it up to adult dimensions later. This is not really “cost justifyable”, but first guns tend to be sentimental things, so it’s nice to have that option.

The Mossberg is an economical choice and there’s certainly nothing wrong with them. If the goal is to use the guns and sell them after a few years, you will take a bigger hit with the Mossberg, but by “bigger” we’re probably only talking $100 or less for 2 guns so this may not be that big of a worry overall.

I really don’t think there is a 20 vs 12 debate with young shooters. The 20 makes so much sense on so many levels, that I can’t see going any other direction for young shooters. The #1 thing with young shooters is NOT long range, knockdown power, pellet count, blah, blah, blah. It’s keeping the sport fun and enjoyable. Nothing about a heavier, bigger, harder kicking gun helps to do this.

Grouse

TFG makes several valid points. I was in the same boat as you last year. This will be my sons second year withthe Bantam 500. The reason I chose the model was that I can glance over at him, if close enough, to see if he has the safety on between shots. This is easy while duck hunting, but more difficult when chasing upland birds. He has shot ducks, pheasants and grouse with it.

I went into this purchase thinking that this gun will be kept around for sentimental reason and a hand me down to his own kid someday. Eventually he will graduate up to an autoloader in a few years.

If you do decide on the Mossberg 500; you will want to set aside some time for each boy to work the safety back and forth. A little oil on the safety, some tape over their thumb to prevent a blister and while watching the football game work the safety.

The safety is quite stiff out of the box.

Hey thanks guys, great points all. I guess my thoughts were to have them as starter guns, although I also thought they are a nice gauge to have in our locale and would make good slug guns to boot (yes, I have ulterior motives, guilty). But no expectations either way other than get them started. Money wise everything is times two so that does not help, the 870 or 500 is in the budget, but not by much. I even thought about getting one for now, and go from there just in case hunting isn’t for them (it is genetic, right?), but as tfg said there are politics involved. Any thoughts on where to buy? I’m thinking gander at the mountain of cash you just spent or wally world, maybe FF? If I could find used I’d consider that also if the price was right. Thanks again all for the feedback.

Personally, I would call Four Seasons Sports in Red Wing and see what kind of price you can get by buying 2 of something. They may also have good used options.

BTW, I wouldn’t shy away from Winchester’s pump offerings either. All of these guns are based on tried/true designs that are 50 years or more old.

I would say hurry. This time of year, you may have trouble finding two of exactly the same gun on the shelves, so you may need to have them ordered in.

As a not about the 20 gauge, I think too little is said aobout how enjoyable the 20 is to own an shoot. In our quest for artillery-like firepower (can the 4 inch magnum be far away?), it’s often overlooked that the atomic bomb approach to whingshooting is often totally unnecessary.

My father never “graduated” from the 20 gauge of his youth. His dad bought him a Remington Model 11 (duplicate of the Browning A5 humpback) when dad was 8 and he shot it until the age of 18 before he ever shot anything else. And then he only moved up to a 16 gauge 870 as his “heavy” gun for ducks and geese. He has never owned a 12 gauge in almost 70 years of wingshooting. He now shoots a 16 gauge Model 11 that is a duplicate of his 20 gauge.

He has taken thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of ducks and pheasants with his 20. In fact, he shoots it with a precision that I find annoying. His take on the 20 is that they are fantastic to carry, and shooting the 20 has taught him to shoot “exactly the bird” by which he means mount the gun fully, cheek down to the stock, establish a full swing, and follow through the bird as it falls.

Grouse

Tens of thousands, wow thats alot of ducks and pheasents,your dad must be like 180 years old

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Tens of thousands, wow thats alot of ducks and pheasents,your dad must be like 180 years old

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Growing up in rural North Dakota, in the 1950s, and starting hunting at the age of 8 will do wonders for your batting average. There was also the motivation because my father is one of 8 children, so with a family of 10 to feed, so huting was part sport and a lot of necessity.

Have you ever seen pictures of what it was like back then? Dad snapped a picture of a grain field (stubble) once and there are 2-300 pheasants visible in the picture. If they walked any section of cover and didn’t get 50 or more birds up, it was considered to be very, very poor hunting. I believe in the 1950s, the limit was 10.

It was very different back then. Dad said that when it came to bird hunting, to his recollection, no one spent a day hunting. There was never any need to spend that much time when it came to pheasants/partridge because anyone who could shoot reasonably well would be limited out in a few hours at worst. There were also vastly more bird species to target as numbers of “resident” ducks were so much higher back then and there were also huge numbers of partridge.

So yes, I think the high thousands estimate is a ablsolute certainty. Given that he is in his 70s and still shoots well above 50% during the pheasant season, it is not difficult for me to see what he would have shot at the age of 18 with the game numbers they had back then.

Grouse

“In fact, he shoots it with a precision that I find annoying.”

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“In fact, he shoots it with a precision that I find annoying.”

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As an annoying case in point, we went out for a day of pigeon shooting. A farmer friend of ours had uncovered some silage pits and because it was December, he had attracted every pigeon within 300 miles to his farm. We shot here several times over a course of a couple of months, it was such good sport.

Now let me tell you, the only people who think the lowly pigeon is easy to hit are the people who have never shot at them. They are wary, fast, and they have that “swooping” dip that makes them very hard to lead.

So there I stand shooting holes in the sky and hardly touching a feather. And there stand dad on the other side of the yard. Bang/down goes the pigeon. Bang/down goes another. Bang/oh good, he finally missed. Bang/got him with the second shot, damn that’s annoying. Bang/there goes another one, I think I’ll take up stamp collecting.

I burned through a box of shells one day and got about 5. Dad shot about 13 times and got 10. It is very difficult NOT to think he’s doing it just to annoy me. To make me feel better, he says, “Pigeons are really tough to hit.” Yeah, tougher for some than for others, that’s for sure.

Stamp collecting has a lot of merits, you know…

Grouse

Funny you mention the 50’s. My mother in law who is in her mid 70’s tells me stories about going into the corn fields with her father to hunt pheasants. She said they would literally step in and the whole field would come alive with birds. Neat stories to hear.

I’ve seen pictures that make me sick to think how long it took them to clean all those birds. My back would have been killing me.