Buy land or wait. A deer hunting land dilemma.

An 80 acre parcel has come up for sale in an area where we already have deer hunting permission on an adjacent farm/cattle ranch. So now that it officially went for sale, I have a real dilemma on my hands. Your advice please.

This 80 acres is fine, like most land in this area it’s bound on 3 sides by other hunting properties, so competition is high. But in this area of northern MN, hunting pressure is extreme everywhere, so that’s really not a point for or against. Like every piece of property in this area, it has a list of both pros and cons. The best positive about it is that it only contains about 10% swamp, which by the standards of this area is very low.

The biggest issue is that this is NOT the 80 I really want. The property I really, really want is not currently for sale. This 120 is almost ideal, it is remote big buck bedding/hideout territory. Lots of crossing via high ridges that form perfect pinch point bottlenecks. There are rumors that within 2-5 years it may go up for sale, but as they say if “ifs and buts” were candy and nuts, oh what a party we’d have.

Now here’s a key fact that plays into the decision: If I buy the property, I CANNOT RESELL IT within 10 years without some bigtime legal hassles. It’s in the deed, there is an access agreement with the next landowner along with a right of first refusla, notice period, etc, it’s complicated, but the bottom line is once I buy it, I must own it for 10 years before selling it off would be an option. Bottom line: If my ideal property came up for sale AFTERWARD, I can’t just sell off the 80 I already own to buy the ideal 120 acre place.

So now I’m in a real spot. I can take the “bird in hand” approach and buy the 80 that’s for sale. In doing so, I would risk the 120 that I really want coming for sale soon and having to let it go because I’d be tied down with this 80 and Mrs Grouse would not go for that kind of outlay in a short period of time.

Or I can sit on the sidelines and risk getting nothing. Letting the “bird in hand” go and then finding out that this was my only chance. I suppose I could buy it and then rent it off to free up cash flow for another property, but this would be a complicated solution and would leave me with a pretty big management workload.

I would really like to have solid ownership of a property in this area. I feel like our current landowner agreement is solid, but as with any of these arrangements, as time goes on things can change and nothing is for sure unless you own it.

What would you do? Buy? Hold? Alternative plan?

Grouse

Buy it. We just bought another 36 acres in SE MN. It’s not our ‘dream land’ either, but one cannot predict the future.

I agree with RageRunner. Buy it. They aren’t making anymore land. Especially if you are getting a very good deal on it. Then spend your time and effort into making that 80 into the best hunting land possible. If the 120 comes up 2-4 years down the road…Buy Mrs. Grouse something REAL NICE.

I had your dilemma 21 years ago come October. I didn’t have deed issues, but rather a partnership with my father.

I bought the farm (though larger acreage than your looking at) and have a few regrets. It’s all high land/ridge top with no water. Always wanted a better wintering ground for whitetail as these ridge tops aren’t the best.

Well, I procrastinated for the first 6 years to really begin the transformation I wanted to. Because I had such limited time, that program I developed took almost 8 more years to complete. Finally, I had land in the CRP program and had to wait until that cleared before completing the restoration work I wanted to do.

Meanwhile, I occasionally came across properties that were a dream come true. Full valleys ridge top to ridge top with a creek…and so on. BUT the price tag was averaging about 4X to 7X /per acre what I paid.

So I guess what I am getting at is you can make a property into what you want. It takes time AND money. But the savings can be huge and leave you more funds to work with in creating a bit of paradise. If you go that route, I would take the first year to learn/study the land and natural habitat. Then after the first year, develope your enhancement program and get to work. I regret the most that I procrastinated. I could have easily saved 6 to 10 years on my project and reaped the benefits sooner. Imagine looking at a row of scrubby apple trees and realizing what they could have been if they were planted 10 years earlier…..

As long as the area has the genetics for good bucks, I would say go for it. In my opinion you already have the hardest thing to provide on your land, WATER. It is quite easy to provide the nutrition they need and with a little time, you can provide really good cover options for them. Good luck and keep us posted. Would love to see the transformation of the property into a buck haven!

Don’t buy it. Owning land is a joke, especially in Northern NN where public land is abundant. We sold all our Iowa, MT and MN properties a few years ago I couldn’t be happier with the decision.

Unless of course that is your one and only hobby for the rest of your life and you will focus all your attention to it.

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Unless of course that is your one and only hobby for the rest of your life and you will focus all your attention to it.

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I agree with Ruger’s ending statement on this. If you own land and want it to reach maximum habitat potential…it takes a lot of years

At first when I read his statement I was a little taken back. I thought what crawled up Ruger’s butt today.

The truth is, he’s right. If you want your land to be a “mecca” as I refer to our farm, there is a financial and time commitment that most don’t imagine. The equipment rental/purchases alone scare many away. Throw in surrounding pressure and it’s an even bigger factor to make your land “better” than everything else around you.

That said, I love it. There are few things that make me happier than sweating my nuggets off working on my land.

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Unless of course that is your one and only hobby for the rest of your life and you will focus all your attention to it.

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This is one of the main reasons why I don’t own land at this point in my life. As much as I love to hunt, a successful, self sustaining property takes year round attention both physically and financially. This means less time fishing or taking hunting trips to other areas and contestant attention to your property.

I tip my hat to the guys who have the discipline and determination to build a great property, but it’s definitely not for everyone.

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to be a butt hole. Just stating my cold hard opinion on the matter. I was blown away at the amount if work and money it took to make our land what we wanted. Then you had neighbors hunting your property line shooting deer “you” feed, grow, protect, etc. cut your fences. Trespass. Etc, etc, etc. just for a recreational property. It would be much better if you lived on the property. Vs have to drive to it and burn a weekend.

Honestly, a guy could buy a lot of guided trips at Bluff Country Outfitters before they exceeded the price/taxes/upkeep of land.

Buy now! Interest rates are still low (if borrowing), and who knows where they will be in 2-5 years. I bought to have safe and certain land to hunt for myself and my son. I have had opening rifle mornings that I see orange real close when the sun comes up and there is no worse feeling. Consider it as an investment. If the deal is good, the land should accrue value in the years to come.

Nut

I’m a Realtor and I’ve helped hundreds of people buy property. I tell every single customer, “this isn’t like buying an ugly shirt. You can’t take it back and if you decide you don’t like your ugly shirt, you might end up wearing it for a while until you CAN sell it.”

You’ll know when you find the right property. I’d wait until the one you want comes available. Land prices have fluctuated wildly in the past few years. It may work to your advantage to wait.

I spoke with my partner in crime (my father) last night. Rigth now, our thinking is leaning toward “buy” for a couple of reasons.

BTW, the property is in the Hinckley area, so relatively speaking it’s pretty close to the Twin Cities and competition is high for hunting land in this area.

Here’s our thinking so far:

1. The per-acre price is at a low level we haven’t seen in years in this area. Since we are both MN residents, it makes sense to look at more land in MN rather than extending our base in WI.

We are very framilliar with land prices in this area and I can say with confidence that it is HIGHLY unlikely that an 80 of this high-ground quality will come up again at anything close to this price.

2. Unlike the far north of MN, in this area parcels of 80 acers or greater seldom come up for sale in this area. Since there is farming/ranching, larger parcels attract the most attention from both hunters and competing farmers.

3. To Ruger’s point, there IS public land in this area, but it is mainly small tax forfit parcels and it is HEAVILY hunted, mainly by those with adjacent land. There is almost no public land in this area that is without a lot of pressure.

I understand the work involved as we have improved other properties. Which is strange because currently we don’t hunt the ones where we made the most improvements, but that’s another story.

I think my biggest motivation and main goal of this property is to secure land for the future.

I am the eldest son of an eldest son of an eldest son and I have two young boys and someday sooner than I would like, they will take to the field just like their father, grandfather, and great grandfather. Dad and I knew these men and we knew they loved their hunting and would have been much diminished without it.

It worries me greatly, the idea that I could be the one who DOESN’T do the things that are necessary to make sure this tradition survives. My spirit would never again sleep if I heard my grandson or great grandson say that they think someone in the family used to hunt, but that was a long time ago…

Grouse

I envy you guys with private deer hunting land but every time I think about pursuing I talk myself out of it because of the expense for 1-2 weeks of hunting per year. Its just not worth it to me. I need to think it terms of investment I suppose.

While I’d like to think of it as an investment, like owning a home, I really look at it as an expense.

Despite people’s claims of “making money” when they sell a home, the problem with this claim is that almost no one accurately tracks what they put back into a home in terms of maintainance, upgrades, and repairs.

Grouse

Try and get the restrictive covenants removed from the deed prior to purchasing the property if possible. Of course the restrictions may be the reason it is selling soo cheap.

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Try and get the restrictive covenants removed from the deed prior to purchasing the property if possible. Of course the restrictions may be the reason it is selling soo cheap.

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We have explored that route and it is a no-go. The seller has strong roots in the community and the deed restrictions provide an easy farm/livestock access to a neighbor and longtime friend. Removing this restriciton would cause the neighbor to have to build a new access road around a swamp, which would cost a very large sum of money.

IMO, we benefit by being the “nice guy” in this situation because there is no detriment to us to have some guy driving a tractor down an existing fencline road to access a gate 100 yards down to get onto his property. This is on the very edge of the property next to the road, so it creates no disturbance to the central part of the property and, in fact, I like the idea of haveing extra eyes watching what’s going on on the property anyway.

The biggest detriment, of course, is that access agreements can always make it more difficult to sell. Point taken, but the cards are what they are so we’ll have to play our hand with this as part of the game.

Grouse

Ah, that makes more sense. Yeah Hinkley is not in Northern MN. I was thinking of Northern MN. I would want my own private land with a bullet proof bunker hunting in “612er hunting zones”. Down there land access and control is an issue.

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Honestly, a guy could buy a lot of guided trips at Bluff Country Outfitters before they exceeded the price/taxes/upkeep of land.

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How many Guided trips can a guy take, before the shine wears off ?? I’d rather buy the land, do as much “work” as I felt like and in 20 years, as public access shrinks more and more and Up North, moves more North, you still have your ground to hunt. And it can be a profitable endeavor if done correct.

I used to think that. Now just the opposite. When done with Bluff Country head to Montana. When done with Montana head to New Mexico. Squeeze Texas in there when necessary.

A lot if hunts to be had all over the country for the price of dirt.

OK obviously there are different types of hunters. I have a job, which does not afford me the time off to go on continuos “trips” all fall, but does allow me time to get to my land, every weekend. I gotta imagine the trips and tags gotta cost about $2000 per trip (my Montana Elk hunts run about $3000 total for 10 days)… start adding that up. I can go to my land for less than a tank of fuel, stay in my own cabin. That’s what I call livin’

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OK obviously there are different types of hunters. I have a job, which does not afford me the time off to go on continuos “trips” all fall, but does allow me time to get to my land, every weekend. I gotta imagine the trips and tags gotta cost about $2000 per trip (my Montana Elk hunts run about $3000 total for 10 days)… start adding that up. I can go to my land for less than a tank of fuel, stay in my own cabin. That’s what I call livin’

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At $50,000 – $100,000 for land. You can 25 to 50 trips for that land price. Since deer season is basically one week a year. You can do 25-50 one week trips over 25-50 years.

However I do have a cabin that I go to on weekends. However I have less than 20k invested in a small lot and a 900 sq/ft modern cabin in the heart of 1,000,000 acres of public land. So I guess I do both.

Deer season is 1 week a year ? Mine starts mid September and stops at the end of December, definitely different hunters.

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Deer season is 1 week a year ? Mine starts mid September and stops at the end of December, definitely different hunters.

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Yep. One week a year if that. I don’t sacrifice fishing just to sit in a tree hoping a swamp rat will wander by. Probably only reason I even deer hunt MN anymore is because I own the deer camp.

I am in the “buy” crowd. They aren’t making any more land and in the future, you’ll regret not doing it.

We were lucky and ended up buying a little chunk of land that serves a double purpose……living and recreation. Being cash poor and having to budget is well worth it to me when I can have my morning coffee while watching deer graze in the yard……..

I have found that in life, people tend to have many more regrets about things they didn’t do than things they did.

T

We are definitely at the opposite ends Wade…. my boat got wet once this year… its tucked in the garage as we speak (bows at the shop getting a new string)

Awesome, good luck. I know what you are saying. I had the lands and the passion. I used to put the boat away mid-August in preparation for fall hunting.

Then one day that passion just faded away and I fell in love with fishing. That is where I had a ton of money in properties I paid a fortune for and never utilized. We kept the one property that was most utilized and cheapest to own. Hence my opinion on the matter.

Good luck this fall.

If it’s something you have been thinking about for a while,,and know you want to stay in the area,,and it’s a good deal, and you know the area well,,,go for it. If the 120 comes up I’m sure you will want to go back in time but if you do this I think you all need to understand that you’re doing it 100% with no regrets. Good luck!

Well, after some long and hard thought and discussions, I’ve decided to make an offer. We’ll see what happens.

One positive development is that possibility of removing some restrictions that would make this land easier to sell on if I so chose.

But overall I’m convinced that this plot offers a good value considering it’s a continious 80 acres and it’s adjacent to land we already hunt. It’s just too rare of an occurance for anything more than 40 acres to come up for sale in this area, so I feel like it’s the right land, right place, and right time to make a move.

We’ll see what happens. I’m going to stick to my guns on what I think it’s worth, so you never know.

Grouse

Update. We submitted our best/final offer this week and have been told that we will be notified by the seller on Friday.

We don’t have any idea on if other offers have been submitted, so no idea what we might be up against. If anything.

I’m really hopeing we get this parcel as while it isn’t perfect, it’s good and it also represents an “eliminate the competition type of thing because it will be 80 more acres that other parties are NOT hunting on. In heavy pressure areas, it’s always nice to cut down the competition.

Grouse