Guns that don’t make sense. We love them anyway.

I had an interesting conversation lately with a friend about guns. Not the usual, what’s the biggest, baddest, tack-driving-est, fastest, flattest, fur-flying-est, etc.

We talked about why some of us love guns that just don’t make sense. It might be old guns that time has passed by, a gun whose time has come and gone. Sometimes it’s tradition, the gun was passed down through the family. Some are rare or obsolete guns that were a good idea that never caught on. Sometimes it’s just that some of us like to do it the hard way.

Let’s start with shotguns. My father, my fiend, and I are all fans of the–wait for it–16 gage. You knew it was coming, didn’t you? What is with you 16 gage wackos, anyway?

As with most of the guns we love even though they don’t make sense, there is on objective reason why. Many of you won’t remember hunting ducks before steel shot was required. In that time before super-light 12 gages and the advent of the 20 gage 3-inch magnum, the 16 gage was the one that did it all. Light enough to carry, hard hitting enough to shoot for everything including ducks.

For pheasants, my father still only carries his 16 gage Remington Model 11, which is the mechanical twin of Browning’s A5 Sweet 16. And he still uses it with jaw-dropping effectiveness. There I stand trying to shell-shock birds into submission with thunderous blasts from a 20 gage 3 inch mag firing pounds of copper plated shot and he picks them off with an old-school 16 and a light load of 6. There’s no objective reason to carry a 16 gage, but there’s also no reason why it still won’t work.

Now let’s move on to rifles. Here the confessional is all mine. Guys, I just love weird rifles that don’t make sense.

Let’s start with the .218 Bee. The 218 say-what? Yes, the .218 Bee. I love it. I don’t know why I want one, it doesn’t make sense that I want one, but I’ve always wanted one.

Back at the dawn of the varmint rifle age in the 1930s, Winchester created the .218 Bee by using (the now also deliciously obsolete) .32-20 as the parent case.

The Bee is somewhat misnamed. The .218 is derived from the then-European practice of using the bore diameter rather than the bullet diameter. The Bee actually stings with a .223 bullet.

So what happened to the .218 Bee? Essentially, the .223 Remington is what happened to the Bee. Along with the .222, the .220 Swift, the .22-250, need I go on?

The .32-40 parent case from the transitional period just did not provide the Bee with the boiler room to stoke the Bee up to the performance levels of next generation of faster and flatter varmint cartridges that soon rushed onto the market. Like the .22 Hornet, the .219 Zipper, and a whole bunch of other cartridges most have probably never heard of, the Bee went into a steep decline and has all but disappeared.

Which probably explains why the contrarian in me wants one. Unfortunately, after years of waiting, I had one in my hot little hands just last month.

And I had to had it back. I just couldn’t do it. It was too much money for an unshootable gun. In the present ammo and component supply crunch, it will not be possible to shoot the Bee anytime soon. I don’t have a supply of brass and brass supplies went from few to nonexistent. Dies and powder are also in short supply.

The dream lives for another day, though. When I find the brass and can get the powder, I’ll be back for the Bee.

I could, and probably will, go on, because this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to my desire for oddball guns.

What about you? What do you shoot that has the other guys squinting and then shaking their heads?

Grouse

A marlin 336 CS in 375 Win. Ammo cost almost $60.00 a box the last time I purchased it ( 10 + years ago ) Made a 4 box purchase that I plan to last me the rest of my life. Great gun out to about 100 yards – After that I could probablty throw a softball faster and more accurate. I have never had a deer go more than 1 few yards after being shot with it. Most of the times dead in their tracks

now there’s a blast from the past, I was raised on shooting ducks with a 16, still have a couple of them.

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A marlin 336 CS in 375 Win. Ammo cost almost $60.00 a box the last time I purchased it ( 10 + years ago ) Made a 4 box purchase that I plan to last me the rest of my life. Great gun out to about 100 yards – After that I could probablty throw a softball faster and more accurate. I have never had a deer go more than 1 few yards after being shot with it. Most of the times dead in their tracks

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Wow, BW. Don’t take theis the wrong way, but it’s really comforting to know there are other weirdos out there just like me. That’s a great one, I don’t believe I’ve ever even seen a 375 Win in real life.

I suspect there will be a lot of fans out there of those old transational era Winchester cartridges. If I’m remembering right, the 375 was a modern version of the .38-55 Winchester that was essentially obsolete becuse of the changeover to smokeless powder.

I’ve often wondered how many out there are still shooting .32-20 and .32-40 Winchesters? Granted, I’m not sure how I’d feel about someone using these for deer in the modern era, although plenty of deer have fallen to these cartridges, I’m sure.

Great example.

Grouse

That 375 Win. was my 1st purchase with my own money ( Well, actually it was made with money received on my 1st student loan – Best use of that money by far ) Back them I did not understand Ballistic’s all that well. I thought the higher the grain of bullet the farther it would shoot. Back when I 1st bought this rifle I believe ammo was available in 250 grain – The highest I could find the last time I bought it I could only find 200 grain. It kicks a little ( Most of my friends will not even shoot it a 2nd time ) Every year I say I am going to retire it, but come deer season it always finds itself comming along and almost always ends up in my hands a few times. Just something about your 1st gun I guess

A Stevens .410 bolt action tube fed magazine. The clumsiest loading and cycling shotgun probably ever made. But I cant part with it. I shot my first duck with it (Greenwing teal)when I was about 9 years old. It belonged to my uncle and he lent it to my dad so I could graduate from the Daisy bb gun. Many years later I ended up buying that old Stevens from my uncle for about $60.00 dollars. Ive had over 40 years of history with that gun so why sell it now ?(Sorry earlier I had this labeled as a Mossberg)

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A Mossberg .410 bolt action tube fed magazine. The clumsiest loading and cycling shotgun probably ever made. But I cant part with it. I shot my first duck with it (Greenwing teal)when I was about 9 years old. It belonged to my uncle and he lent it to my dad so I could graduate from the Daisy bb gun. Many years later I ended up buying that old Mossberg from my uncle for about $60.00 dollars. Ive had over 40 years of history with that gun so why sell it now ?

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Exactly. You can’t put a price on 40 years of history.

And some guns like your Mossie just make me smile. How a tube fed shotgun ever looked like a good idea to someone–even on paper–is beyond me. But it did, and here you are.

The funny thing too is that somewhere out there, someone like you, is thinking, “Damn, I wish I’d never sold that Mossberg .410 that I killed my first duck with. . .”

In the cold light of cash value, my favorite Guns the Don’t Make Sense like the Model 11 Remington generally fetch less than $500 in good condition. But at that price, memories are not included.

Grouse

I’m not cut from the same cloth as you guys. Guns have always simply been tools to hunt with, much like dogs. I don’t seem to be able to establish a connection with them. Now, as I get a little older and begin to appreciate the sentimental value more I do wish I still had my first rifle my dad gave me. An old Winchester .270.

Kooty, I think a lot of view guns in the category of tools, but the history keeps building and at some point the value of that well-loved history outpaces their value as tools.

In my case, I happen to be very fortunate in that I come from a long line of wingshooters and by luck, hook, and near-crookery I’ve managed to inherit, beg, borrow, or usurp the guns that mean the most to me.

I have my Great Grandfather’s Winchester 97 shotgun, bought new circa 1913. I also have his .22 Remington Model 12, which some call a “gallery” or “parlor rifle”.

He must have known it by the latter because he literally did shoot it in the parlor using some kind of low powered ammo and a crate filled with old newspaper. I wish thier old house was still standing, I’ll bet the back wall of the parlor has more than a few escaped .22 rounds in it. He used the Czech word for “hats” when describing the ammo he used indoors, which to grandpa was always odd, but I think this might have been his translation of “caps” which would sense as that was a term for low-powered .22 ammo.

One of the reasons this little gun means so much to me is the notion of Great Grandpa sitting in his chair and shooting a .22 across the room into a target tacked to an apple crate. I’ll bet not many of us would get away with that in this day and age, so the thought is just that much more entertaining.

Grouse

Nice thread!

I have my first gun – a Hawthorne bolt action .410. I think Hawthorne was a ‘montgomery Wards’ brand (or monkey wards as dad used to say…lol). It holds three shots and is a real clunker – but as a youth toting it, I was king pf the woods – and I arkansas’d many a grouse with it….lol.

That old .410 and my dads old Colt Officer Model .22 revolver are very near and dear to me. The colt is worth a few bucks, but even though the .410 would probably only bring about $50 on the open market……I wouldn’t sell it for less than a small ransom!

Have both my grandfathers shotguns. Model 97 that my dad put a polychoke on when he farmed in Alabama. He loved quail and I always was amazed at how fast he was with it. And the other is a model 12 that I shot my first turkey with here in MN and then retired it. Neither one is pretty or valuable. They were tools to the original owners. But both shoot and to me are priceless.

My AR in 5. 56 is a useless caliber for me but I love how it shoots and how easy it is to break down to clean. Definitely the gun I would want in a fix.

I think I carry an appreciation for the “odd” things. On one hand, I thnk they’re cool. Next day, I’ll think to myself, “What do I want with one of those?”.

I too, got started in the ballistics and logistics of firearms and many of the varieties that exist, rather late in life. This fact hasn’t really hurt me but at the same time, I wonder what I don’t know….. and may have missed out on.

You want a round that no longer makes sense but is still quite common? .22WMR! The infamous .22 mag! Next to my .17 HMR, I don’t feel like there’s much argument in favor of the .22mag, especially now with the .17 Hornet and .17 Remington Fireball coming to pass! Hornady has tried by lowering the grain weight but these rounds just don’t seem as accurate to me. Anyway, for pests at ranges not meant for a .22LR, I still love the .22mag and have a Remington 597 in that caliber, and the name “.22mag” still sounds cool to me! Next to the Savage 9317BTVSS, it makes no sense, but I love it!

Another? I love a 28 gauge! More expensive to shoot. Less BB’s. Harder to find chokes and accessories for. But when I carry one, I just LOVE IT! Part of me thinks, “What’s a .410 good for when you have a 28?” Well, if you’re going to go to a 28, why not move on up to a 20? Not much more in the recoil and a bit more shot. Plus, lots of chokes and accesories and load options! It makes no sense, but I’ll never be without one. 16 gauge? I don’t have one yet but I have 9 boxes of ammo that says I will someday! I keep looking……

I will likely NEVER have a .44mag. Why? Because I have a .41mag! In some ways, the .44 is what doesn’t make sense but they’re neck and neck in performance and if you have one, I can’t really see a need for the other. But if you have a choice, like I did, why on earth would you decide to own a .41? Well, as if the Ruger New Model Blackhawk wasn’t bad enough, I bought a Marlin 1894 to go with it!

Others I like include .32 Win. Spec., 300 Savage, 40-65 Win., .444, and .35 Rem.

Now there’s a fine collection of guns that don’t make sense.

I will say, however, that the .22 Mag was a lot more common at one time. The last 20 years have seen a lot of smallbore options come into the fore that weren’t there back in the day. 204, 17, etc. Once upon a time, there wasn’t much between the .22 rimfire and the .223 and many of these chamberings were obsolete and not very common to begin with. So if you wanted to go one step up from the .22 rimfire, the .22 mag was the logical place to go.

Now the 28 gage, well, let me put it this way: I had heard there were weirdos like you out there. In a good way, of course.

I actually think handguns these days have a lot more choices when it comes to guns and chamberings that don’t make sense. I’m sure I’ll get some mail on this, but to me it seems there’s just so many chamberings that are clustered so close together with very little in terms of difference compared to other close relatives. .357 SIG, 41 Mag, 10 MM, are the ones that come to mind as quick examples.

Of course, someone will point out that the .357 SIG has more “knockdown power” (whatever that is) than the 9 MM, to which I always reply, “Are you willing to get shot with both of them to verify that?”

Grouse

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I had heard there were weirdos like you out there. In a good way, of course.

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Actaully not feeling too well today….. and this was just the laugh I needed! Thanks Grouse!

About the .22mag being a step up from the .22LR….. I think it still is! I can’t think of anything that really goes apples to apples with that offering. Every other offering is a higher performing option. Perhaps it’s the reason it still maintains some popularity today? I have no idea. One thing I have come to appreciate about that round though. I’ve been marking my ammo boxes for over a decade now, of the date I bought them and the price I paid out of pocket. .22WMR hasn’t really changed in price throughout recent year’s steady increases. I can show that since 2006, .22LR has doubled in price. All of my centerfires….. double. .22mag? The same price I was paying in 2006! .17HMR hasn’t changed much either…… Everything else, that I can think of, has doubled, nearly doubled, or MORE than doubled. More = .30-30s. $6-7/box to $15-18/box. CRAZY!