Mathews and Primos partner.

st croix is a great local company, they out of SW wisconsin if im not mistaken. and their customer service is top notch… as im sure you have seen from threads on the site.

i know that g loomis has a lot of strong followers as well, and rumor has it that shimano is selling a quality product. i’ve never fished them, but i know guys who use both.

i went the budget route (so i can get more rods for my money) and picked up a couple IM8 guide series rods from gander. i like them a lot! i dont get near the sensitivity as with my avid, but its a great backup that wont break your bank.

as far as length, i’d look to the 6.6+ i have a couple 7’ers that i love to pitch with, it gives you just enough backbone to pitch it that lil extra, i especially notice the difference when pitching lite jigs.

power is up to preference imo, i dont like to fish with a 2×4 so i try to stay around medium or med lite for fishing eyes. if im fishing for largemouth or smallies in some thick cover, ill look to a med heavy just to rip them out of all that crap! choice of line also plays a big part. james was talking about that on one of his river shows, i cant recall his rule off the top of my head, but i think he said you want a faster action with braided because you dont have the flexability as the mono and flouro lines.. but i could have that backwards…

Nothing wrong with a 6’6″ rod. People have been using that length for decades! Medium power is about perfect. Fast action is a good speed.
Idealy, I would want a medium light for lindy rigging. I want that lighter tip for the walleye to suck on that live bait without a lot of detection from me.
Medium action in a 6′ to 6’6″ for verticle jigging is a great length/power because sometimes a guy verticle jigs in 30fow and wants something a bit stronger in power for that 3/8oz jig/livebait chub.

For me personally, I would want two rods. One for jigging and one for rigging. But you can get away with just one, if you are on a budget.

Being that you are going to restrict yourself to one rod, because of the budget, I would recommend the Shimano Clarus selection of rods. They are a great rod for approximately $60 and they have a life-time warranty, over the counter exchange if they ever break. That warranty is huge in my opinion and cannot be challenged for a $60 rod.
I own a couple of these rods and they have great balance, weight, and sensitivity.

If the pocket book allows, I would purchase 2 rods. One for jigging and one for rigging. My go-to rod choice, hands down would be G-Loomis. There GL-2 rods at $130 approximate price have a greater sensitivity than the $160-$170 St. Croix Avid. I own both and the Loomis prevails every time. Rod choice would be 7mlf for the rigging, and 6mf for verticle jigging.

Quote:

---

P.S. What the heck is pitching “blades”???

---

Casting blade baits like these…

Quote:

---

I’ve been thinking of a new higher quality rod for the upcoming season. Seems to be a large following in St. Croix on this site. What would be some comparable companies?

---

There are none. I would use my Croix over my Loomis any day.
DT

good info….maybe I already have a good vert. jigging rod and should be concentrating on a rigging stick as this seems like the unit I’m lacking…. I have a 6’med and 6’4 med already that I use for jigging so maybe I’m good on the area….

7′ mlf or 7’mf??? what size reels are you using with these rods??? light or med. light size reels?? size 20/30 or 25/35(I think these are sizes anyway.)

It’s not a budget thing, I guess I was looking at the concept like a shotgun….you shoot 1 gun alot and you’ll be a better gunner overall do to different “feels”. I guess I was looking at it as if I used one “overall” rod I may be more in tune with what is going on at the end of the line as you would get used to all minute details associated with the feedback that rod delivers.

If you are looking for a great rod for rigging, that can also double as a rod to pitch lighter jigs take a look at the St. Croix TWS70MLF. This is also called the Tournament Walleye Series “Lindy Rig” rod. It is a 7 foot medium light fast action rod. It is a great rigging rod but is also excellent in other applications. I like it to fish live bait on wing dams either on a simple hook and split shot rig or on a jig head. It is also great for fishing lighter jigs and slip bobbering. You can even pitch blades pretty well with this rod.

As far as reels go I am biased towards shimano. It is all I use now. I have tried all of the other so called high end reels and i always end up back at shimano. I like the stradics for an all around reel. In the new model stradic I like the 2500 size on a 7 foot rod. In the older white model the 2500 is too big for my personal feel so I have the 1000 size in the older reels. I like smaller reels though so take that for what it’s worth. However the 7 foot tournament series with the new 2500 stradic balances up as well as any rod I have ever picked up. Even more expensive rods and reels do not pair up as well.

Look into the Shimano Crucial series – VERY nice rods. Quality is directly comparable the St Croix and Loomis stuff, but the price is generally better and they come with a lifetime over the counter warranty. The warranty service alone makes them worth it in my opinion. No shipping costs or hassles and no waiting, just walk in and walk out with a new rod.

I’ve got the 6’3″ MXF for jigging and the 7’MF for rigging.

Waxy

i hear ya on the shotgun it took me a full season to switch from my 870 to my sx2… but rods have such different applications and you can specialize in certain types of fishing.. if you want to keep your shotgun aspect similar… think of swapping rods like going from a smoothbore barrel to a rifled barrel, its for different things. you can get the same reel and handle style for the same feel, but the different power of rods really do have specific purposes.

for reels on my 7’ers i went budget again, and got the shimano symetre 2500. they have a lot of the same features as the stella, only they dont have the liteweight components and they are much cheaper. its the cheapest spinning reel that has shimano’s worm gear technology. which slows the rise and fall of the spool which they claim helps to seat the line on the spool smoothly.

my buddy has a quantum PTI and i think thats around the same price range as a shimano stella, but i havent priced reels in a few years now. he loves it.

Quote:

---

There GL-2 rods at $130 approximate price have a greater sensitivity than the $160-$170 St.

---

According to their current website the GL2 is now Loomis entry level, moderate action, low modulus rod…the Shimano Clarus is also a low modulus, low carbon content rod…The GL2 price is double the Clarus.
The 2008 Avid is a high carbon(SC III) modulus rod with a faster tapered action than either and is only $30 more than the GL2. Again…the awesome option of fising/comparing these rods for free is unbeatable…stop down to Everts!
Tom’s tip… try a TWS68MXF / River jig
I recommend this rod for river anglers. The extra length is ideal for line and lure control in current…very sensitive soft tip for 1/4 oz blades…plenty of sensitivity for feeling those Eyes suck in a Paddletail and great hook setting backbone!

BTW…don’t overlook Pfleuger for a very nice reel for the price…

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

There GL-2 rods at $130 approximate price have a greater sensitivity than the $160-$170 St.

---

According to their current website the GL2 is now Loomis entry level, moderate action, low modulus rod…the Shimano Clarus is also a low modulus, low carbon content rod…The GL2 price is double the Clarus.
The 2008 Avid is a high carbon(SC III) modulus rod with a faster tapered action than either and is only $30 more than the GL2.

---

With all due respect sir.
Comparing apples to apples:
The G-Loomis GL2: 6’mf, 1/8th-3/8oz, 6-12lb line.
The St. Croix Avid: 6’mf, 3/16th-5/16th, 6-12lb line.
Look to be the same to me for the most part.

Horse a piece. Other than the price tag difference of $15 MSRP.
However, when I held these two rods, hand in hand, for over an hour, trying to compare to see which one held better sensitivity/feel, the G-Loomis GL2 won with my Orge sausage fingers. Does it make it a better rod? I don’t know. But I do know it is cheaper, more sensitive, same taper, and has the same warranty.

PS: When I purchased my rod, there was a $30 difference at that time.

To be quite truthfull, if a person cannot feel the jig on the sand, or can’t feel a chub on a lindy rig with a $40 Berkley, Rapala, or Bass Pro Shop, Cabelas, GanderMountain rod, they should have their nerves checked out by a doctor. That is with mono.

Don’t get me wrong. I have a fleet of St. Croix rods, from Premier to Legend. And I love most of them. However, I do have some cheaper rods of the same length, speed, power that perform better and have better warranties.

Quote:

---

better and have better warranties.

---

Which rods have a better warranty than St. Croix?

With all due respect Mr Ogre.
Comparing apples to apples:
The G-Loomis GL2: 6’mf, 1/8th-3/8oz, 6-12lb line.
The St. Croix Avid: 6’mf, 3/16th-5/16th, 6-12lb line.
Look to be the same to me for the most part.

The above specs do not describe the construction, taper, or carbon content/quality of the blank…only a broad application of lure weight and line parameters…

Loomis no longer elaborates on any facet of its construction methods nor identifies quality (carbon scrim level) of materials as St. Croix does… but here is one clue…a 6′ MF GL2 blank
SJ721 (GL2) Granite 6′ 1 6 – 10lb
5.5 0.427 Fast Light 26716-01 $68.00
Now thats a 0.427″ Dia butt section and 5.5mm tip

St. Croix… PS60MF 6′ 6-12 1/4-5/8 1 M FAST 0.465 5.0 1.4 HKS-3 $60
That Premier blank has a 0.465″ butt section and 5.0mm tip
The Avid blank has a similar butt with a 4.5″ tip, faster yet and more sensitive

The Loomis website calls the GL2 a Moderate action lower modulus blank… The St. Croix has a higher modulus (higher carbon content) and thinner tip sections…that should relate to a faster more sensitive rod blank… But Hey…I respect your personal feelings and won’t argue with your experiences…I fished with a Loomis sponsored Pro for several years and have fished GL2s, GL3s and GLX. He is no longer sponsored at all (retired) and has switched to Elites…again this is a person’s opinion.

Now if we could only find some place where we can “test drive” a Loomis alongside a comparable St. Croix…folks could find out for themselves…

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

better and have better warranties.

---

Which rods have a better warranty than St. Croix?

---

Cabela’s is an over-the-counter exchange, anytime with no questions asked.

The Shimano Clarus rod, which is comparable to a Premier rod, dollar-to-dollar, has a life-time over the counter warranty. The Premier has a 2 year warranty.
I can take my broken $65 Clarus to Thorne Bros and exchange over the counter, where I have to spend $40 to have my $90 Premier fixed.

However to be fair, if Thorne Bros doesn’t have that rod on the shelf, I do have to spend the $40 to have the $65 Clarus rod fixed.

I do like St. Croix’s life-time rod warranty. It is very commendable. I have a very old Legend Elite musky rod, very old, very very old (probably 10years?) and the reel seat came loose. They fixed it and replaced the butt cork too, for free. Just cost me $40 in shipping. ($20 to ship, $20 to return ship).

So…..

If you were looking for a stick (in whatever brand you like) for lindy rigging, 3-way rigging, and walking sinkers w. spinner rigs, would you go with a 7’mlf or 7’mf?? I can “hands-on” compare brands once I actually have time to shop, but am looking for info on what aspects are going to give the best results for the applications.

I don’t fish any rivers and only fish reservoirs.

It sounds like most would perfer the 7’mlf….my only concern with the ml is when pulling the rigs we sometimes approach 1mph and don’t want the rod “pre-bent” in half.

thanks

Quote:

---

The Shimano Clarus rod, which is comparable to a Premier rod, dollar-to-dollar, has a life-time over the counter warranty.

---

Shimano’s over the counter exchange program sounds ideal. However, in practice, it reminds me of that classic exchange from Tommy Boy.

Tommy: Let’s think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I’m listening.

Tommy: Here’s the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box ’cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: ‘Course it does. Why shouldn’t it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing too]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What’s your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn’t a crazy glue sniffer? “Building model airplanes” says the little fairy; well, we’re not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that’s all it takes. The next thing you know, there’s money missing off the dresser, and your daughter’s knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of junk. That’s all it is, isn’t it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer’s sake, for your daughter’s sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

Everts Resort used to carry the Clarus line of rods. The warranties and price point on these Chinese made rods were very attractive. In application that over the counter warranty was next to worthless. Unless you like waiting 3+ months for a replacement Clarus to show up at the store so you can make the exchange.

For anyone that really wants to know if a warranty is what the company says it is… call Dean at Everts. He carries a number of rod lines down at the resort including St. Croix, Limit Creek and Jason Mitchell. He used to carry the Shimano line. Ask him why he doesn’t any longer.

Got to love Tommyboy!
Good point James.
Very good point!

Quote:

---

So…..

If you were looking for a stick (in whatever brand you like) for lindy rigging, 3-way rigging, and walking sinkers w. spinner rigs, would you go with a 7’mlf or 7’mf?? I can “hands-on” compare brands once I actually have time to shop, but am looking for info on what aspects are going to give the best results for the applications.

I don’t fish any rivers and only fish reservoirs.

It sounds like most would perfer the 7’mlf….my only concern with the ml is when pulling the rigs we sometimes approach 1mph and don’t want the rod “pre-bent” in half.

thanks

---

ML, fast action. I’ve been able to drift with 3/8oz sinker in 20-25fow at close to 1mph. While I’m not really happy about going that fast in a lindy rig, you will be fine, more than fine. You can get away too, with a 1/2 or even 3/4 oz and a small spinner. The rod will load up a little bit, but the “fast” action will keep you good.

Due note that 99% of my lindy rigging is with a St. Croix Premier 7mlf action rod. Prior to this, I was using a 6’6″ ml Signature Series Bass Pro Shops walleye rigging rod. While the Bass Pro rod was better balanced and had better sensitivity, due to being crafted for lindy rigging, the quality of the blank did not hold up and it broke in my hands on a very light fish.

As my fishing ability has improved over the years, I’ve found that I don’t need a super-duper, krypton grade, flux capacitor, gadzillion modulous rod that can detect a walleye breathing at the other end of the lake for lindy rigging.

I do prefer the higher sentivity rods though for river jigging and pitching to know what my jig is doing on the bottom.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

The Shimano Clarus rod, which is comparable to a Premier rod, dollar-to-dollar, has a life-time over the counter warranty.

---

Everts Resort used to carry the Clarus line of rods. The warranties and price point on these Chinese made rods were very attractive. In application that over the counter warranty was next to worthless. Unless you like waiting 3+ months for a replacement Clarus to show up at the store so you can make the exchange.

For anyone that really wants to know if a warranty is what the company says it is… call Dean at Everts. He carries a number of rod lines down at the resort including St. Croix, Limit Creek and Jason Mitchell. He used to carry the Shimano line. Ask him why he doesn’t any longer.

---

Wow, that’s a pretty sweeping statement James.

I can personally attest to the top notch service that I’ve had, and others I fish with as well, when it comes to the Shimano warranty – rods and reels. Replaced every time, no questions asked, and if the exact replacement was not available, something very close was offered as a substitute, often a better/newer rod than the damaged one.

The dealer you buy your rod from is as important as the warranty. They are your representative in the deal. It’s also important that they have enough stock to be able to offer consistent warranty service. I’ve never had to wait for warranty.

I think some people on this site get a litte carried away sometimes by their personal biases…

Waxy

Quote:

---

I think some people on this site get a litte carried away sometimes by their personal biases…

Waxy

---

Bias my eye. I never made a comment on the quality of Shimano rods and did not offer a recommendation for an alternative. I did offer that my knowledge of Shimano’s track record of providing service on their stated warranty was not the “magic bullet” as suggested by the previous poster and provided a concrete example from a very trusted source as to why. No bias there at all.

When a dealer known for their impeccable customer service drops the line due to that manufacturer’s inabilty to live up to the guarantee made to their customers in the form of a warranty… that says volumes to me.

Where’s the bias? Please, point it out.

Hey guys sorry this thread is heading this direction….I was just looking for some info on wally rods since I’m prob. considered a newbie(heading into 4th season)by most of your experience levels. I’m assuming all the rods made today are better than when most of us started fishing…I know I can’t imagine hauling a big ‘eye to the boat with my first “combo”(man, that’s been a long time ago). I’m pretty sure the fish would win!

Thanks for all the info thus far. I’ve pretty much decided on a 7mf(thanks shrek) and will have to just get my hands on the different brands out there, but it appears that I prob. won’t go wrong with any of the brands as it appears each as it’s own passionate following.

Just remember we are a day closer to open water!!!

Nice looking eyes btomlin! Are those from Iowa?

FDR

yes sir, but don’t tell anyone!

Waxy;
James is correct on this in regards to Dean at Evert’s. I recall the same conversation.

Maybe because Thorne Bros might sells more rods that Shimano is the one that is biased, as you claim there is bias people here?

Quote:

---

When a dealer known for their impeccable customer service drops the line due to that manufacturer’s inabilty to live up to the guarantee made to their customers in the form of a warranty… that says volumes to me.

---

The very same thing happened at a large baitshop down here in Cedar Rapids.

I did buy a Shimano rod for my brother before that happened. It is a nice rod, but I won’t use it over my St. Croixs!

I have no interest in getting involved in a peeing contest with you folks. I have no horse in the race, and I don’t take it personally.

Everyone has their opinions. I prefer to see positive ones rather than negative generalizations, but that’s just me.

I’ll leave it at that.

Waxy

For rigging I really like the Shimano Crucial 7′ ML. I originally ordered some Compres, but I got an incredible offer to upgrade to the Crucial. The rod is very sensitive and light weight. I pesonally do most of my jigging with a 6’9″ Shimano Compre but I wish I never would have given my brother my 6’8″ MXF St. Croix Avid. That rod is awesome.

Primos and Mathews partner up. Now my favorite elk killers will be shooting my weapon of choice. What a great partnership this should be.

http://mathewsinc.com/index.asp?pageID=newsevents&btnSubmit=ByFileCategoryID&cboFileCategoryIDMain=3999&cboFileCategoryID=11148&cboFileID=46071&CurrentPage=1&SortOrder

I remember the tour guide at the Mathews plant in Sparta saying they would be joining together. I wonder if theyre going to make a “truth” model

does anyone know why they left bear archery?

Fred Bear is an icon, always will be, but given the chance-which would most people shoot?