stoeger 3500

Not trying to throw gas on a ire here, but IMHO, the slot bite on the east side rocks has been very good this year.

If muskies and pike are eating the walleyes, and making an impact, then I have a question:

Why is every great muskie factory, a great walleye factory?
LOTW, Lac Seul, Leech, Mille Lacs, Vermillion to just rattle off a few names. Actually, these are the “easy” names. There are so many GREAT fisheries in Ontario that are incredible muskie waters and they host monster walleyes and 100-fish walleye days.

Also, those muskie/walleye factories are also great pike fisheries as well.

So many people think the muskies are the reason the fishing sucks (not calling you out Red Lund). This has been an urban legend for decades (actually a “fairy tale”).

One difference between ML and most of the lakes you have mentioned is depth and more northenly location, therefore, these lake generally have deeper colder water and support larger and more stable populations of tulibees(ciscos) than Mille Lacs does…and muskies really love tulibees, i think with the larger tulibee populations, muskies generally don’t target walleyes.. that being said, I do believe muskie predation of walleyes in ML is insignificant…personally i think they eat a ton of perch….

I would have to agree with you to some extent, here on the SE as posted before the majority of the fish we were catching early on were ‘keepers’ 14-18″…therefore, I believe the DNR estimate could be a little low…but I can’t say that for the rest of the lake, ie. the mud flats, north sand, deep gravel…I believe these areas experienced an inconsistent bite this year…and generally (not wriiten in stone) the rocks areas on the south and east side tend to hold smaller fish,anyway…

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The bite has been off because of a HUGE perch bloom. Nothing more.

BIRDDOG

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But BIRDDOG, don’t you think the perch bloom would get reduced sooner if the bands hadn’t netted 100K lbs of predators before the season started?

gt

Not to flame the fire,

but I did a little math…if you use the DNR’s numbers…60,000lbs towards quota and subtract 9,000 (towards mortality rate) that equals 51,000 lbs of fish harveted…

if you divide 51,000 into 750,000 hrs. of fishing

51,000/750,000 = 14.70…

that means to keep one fish for the fry pan, a guy has to fish and average of 14.70 hours of fishing(asuming my math is right)

I wonder what the catch rate is for the tribal netters…it would definately be how many fish per hour fom them… as opposed to one fish per 14.70 hours for us(tax paying, fishing,boat and trailer license buying, slot and bag limit abidding, one fishing pole fishing, night ban abidding, citizens) …That just ain’t f’ing right in my book…an by no means am I a fish hog…

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One difference between ML and most of the lakes you have mentioned is depth and more northenly location, therefore, these lake generally have deeper colder water and support larger and more stable populations of tulibees(ciscos) than Mille Lacs does…

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Very valid point!

I have to make one more point, the harvest numbers for 2008 are not ananomoly or fluke either…If you compare the harvest numbers of the last 6 years, 3 out of the 6:

2003,2004 2008 have been the some of the lowest ever recorded…

2005 was not much better we managed to harvest about half the quota

I’m not 100% sure about 2006, I couldn’t find any harvest numbers for that year..i do recall the fishing being pretty good that year but I don’t know for sure how close we were to reaching the quota…

as you recall last summer, the fishing we excellent early on and by mid summer the DNR tightened the slot because were getting close to he quota…well the fishing shifted to “dead sea mode” after about mid-july…therefore the further restricting by the DNR really didn’t make that much of a difference anyway…

Yes, we can probably attribute poor fishing to perch hatch blooms…but these perch hatch blooms seem to be happening more frequently than years past…Is there a correlation between perch hatch blooms and tribal netting or some other factors….who knows? but it sure seems as though the overall fishing for average fisherperson is either boom or bust…and not alot in between…

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But BIRDDOG, don’t you think the perch bloom would get reduced sooner if the bands hadn’t netted 100K lbs of predators before the season started?

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Sure. Many factors that are playing into what we’re dealing with. Those netted fish would certainly have made a dent in the perch, who knows how big of a dent? One thing for sure is the perch spawn was huge, no one can dispute that, they’re prime right now for taking. We snagged a few this weekend, tasty morsels for the eyes. I still believe the bite is off because of the bloom.
I believe the fish(eyes)are there, I see them on the camera and graph. The fish we’ve caught this year are supper healthy, a 28″ we got last week was a pig. Someone mentioned them being like Nov. fish. True.

As far as the bite goes for other species, we aren’t catching them like we did in years prior. We might see some good reports for smallies, I’ve posted a few. But they were rare outings this year. Last year we couldn’t keep the 18″+ smallies off it seemed…this year, not the case. At least for us. It was just off…that’s just honest.

We(our crew) really try to be multi species, we spend our time on all of them. Unfortunatly for us, this year has not been a good one for numbers.

As far as the pike go, we are seeing the same. The years prior we had great Pike fishing, this year it was ok but slower than years prior.

Judging from the number of Mille reports this year in each of the forums. The bite isn’t as good, not nearly as many reports. That leads me to believe most are seeing the same results as us.

We can go alot deeper than netting Vs. perch bloom for the reason the bite has been off. I’ll be honest…I think joe fisherman took a pile of walleyes out of the lake the last 3 years. Limit after limit. Every resort garbage I saw was full, all season for a few years straight. Talking with the folks that did the survey, they were seeing lots of walleys hit the cutting board.

In the end, when we see subpar fishing for all species, I lean towards the baitfish being the main factor.

What happened on leech the last few years gives a person a real good idea what a baitfish bloom will do to the bite. We had sharp shooters out there killing the “culprit” that was eating all the walleyes?? Turned out to not to be true at all looking at the study that was done on their stomach contents, turned out their diet was like 3% walleye. Now all the sudden the bite is smoking hot up there. The baitfish bloom killed the bite. The fish were there all along, as we’re seeing now. It’s one of the hotest lakes in the state, but 3 years ago there were no walleys left.

I think this is exactly what’s happening on Mille now. I certainly hope this is the case anyway.

If it turns out I’m wrong, so be it. Will I “eat my words”, sure. It’s just a theory. But if that bite comes back around the next few years and it turns out the netting isn’t damaging the lake to the extent that so many believe, there will be no eaten words, because they’re still netting and we’re still going to have the ones that hate it. There will always be a argument for netting taking fish out, it’s true.

BIRDDOG

web page

I think stocking 37 million fry in Leech Lake in 2005and 22 million in 2006 had more to do with improved fishing success than anything else…

I can’t get the above outdoornews article to come up…but if you do a search and type in leech lake stocking you can find it….

For what its worth. I’ve had a chance to visit with Tom Jones (DNR Big Lake Biologist) the last couple mornings, he’s conducting the fall gill net survey right now. The DNR spring surveys have shown them that the walleye population is just where they thought it was last fall, not what the net surveys said it was. So there are/were more walleyes than the net surveys indicated.

The bad news is…..there is as we all know a lot of food in the lake for the fish right now, but things do not look good for this years walleye hatch. There are plenty of them out there, but they are small and the DNR has some serious concerns about how many will survive the winter. The upside is that maybe with less food size minnows out there next year, the bite could be better. Only time and Mother Nature will tell.

There has been a lot of food for the last 3 years. Anyone who has looked at their depthfinder or looked around a marina knows how many perch there are. There is a hole in the walleye population in my opinion. Specifically the slots. Jack I know you don’t fish the areas where the big fish bite…( ) but why is it that the bigger fish are so much easier to catch? My guess is it is because there are more of them. I think the bigger fish are eating bigger bait where they can. We are pulling HJ 12-14’s in the Fall and getting fish. Many more than when I pull Shad Raps that more closely match the hatch.

Jon Jordan, Bob Carlson, and the rest of you guys fishing the East side this year…we will be watching how that bite goes. If history proves…this year should match the last three on the east side. Dead and dying is my prediction. Historically it has been my finding that the smaller slot fish hang around the east and south end rocks. Larger fish like weed to sand and weed to rock transitions.

Let’s look again in November.

Jack..If you can…ask the biologist why the perch would have had such a successful spawn this year, and the walleyes a poor one?

My prediction is also for an average weed bite this year when the sows are on the feed.

Bring on October, and let the chips fall where they may.

If what JDLII is saying true…look for the hardcore fall all night trollers to do O.K. starting in a couple weeks until freeze up catching the bigger females…and immediately after freeze up a few walleyes might be caught…but after that look for it to be a long winter ice fishing on the Pond…very much like last year…ML is getting the reputation as the best 3-8 inch perch fishery in the world bar none…especially during the hard water season…i think i’ll be doing more ice fishing on other lakes this year…This is just my prediction…I could totally be wrong…But I sure feel for those guys and gals in the resort business on ML…

As of right now…I am in your camp.

I would love to be wrong.

In figuring out the the hours/fish rate I discovered i did make a mathimatical error….It take 14.70 hours on average to harvest 1 lbs. of walleyes (not one fish)…the average slot fish is probably 2 lbs…therfore, it takes even longer…twice as long 14.70 times 2 = 29.4 hours/ fish…even worse…

Those 05-06 stocked fish are in the 15-18″ range…while folks are catching them, the 20-29″ fish are there in good numbers and biting as well, that bite has been good for these fish this year. They “weren’t” there 3-4 years ago. Fact is, they were…just not biting due to forage. Leech is in real good shape right now, it has a wide range of year class.

I just use leech as a example of how things can get blown out of the water. Without knowing, they went off the deep end and sent out sharp shooters. Their killing the birds didn’t bring the fish back. Surely the stocking helped, but it wasn’t the birds damaging the fishery.

I’m not OK with netting on Mille…don’t get me wrong. I don’t like it. But, I know there are other factors, collectivly they’re making for a tough bite across the board. I can’t help to believe we’re seeing a forage cycle here that’s making the largest impact rather than the fish being gone. Last year the fishing was nothing short of spectacular for all sizes, it was great, as were years prior. It started to slow down mid July and has been that way since, right when we started to really notice the vastness of the forage, north to south, weedy bays to rock reefs, there are schools of perch minnows everywhere.

On another note, along with the little perch we snagged last week, we also snagged a couple walleye fry and caught/snagged a couple 4-5″ers. It was good to see.

BIRDDOG

With the debate going on, the one item that hasn’t been considered with the low harvest # referenced in the article, would be the drop in fishing pressure and tactics due to high gas prices this year. Read many comments through summer on lower fishing pressure. The impact that would have on the # of trips made by the hard core that do more catching then fishing then the average fisherman and the impact to fishing techniques that would require running across the lake or running outbaord on a windy day or settle for dropping anchor and bobber fishing the rocks. No answers but but yet another impact to the harvest #s to consider. Doesn’t accout for netting #s but harvest number ???? Or is this my denial allowing me to stay optomistic for next visit in October. Hase anyone out there decided to anchor when the would have pulled plugs all day years past. Guides out there, if you could take your clients to the rocks for decent bobber bite or take them out to the flats and pull plugs all day for a few big girls what would you do for your business. If I was a guide, I know what presentation I would spend most of my time doing.

Reading my post I want to make it clear that I’m in no way being critical of what guides are willing to do for their clients. I’m sure you all do what you can to give your clients the best experience you can…..just a topic for discussion. So please don’t take post the wrong way. BTW Not my fist post, just lost my last profile so I’m stating over.

does anybody have any comments be they good or bad about the 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 stoeger 3500 as i am considering purchasing one for duck and goose hunting

I have been looking at these guns as well the 3500 and the 2000.

Both seem ok, when you pick up one of these guns, and the step up from the the Franchi and then a benelli, you can really tell the difference in the guns.

Stoeger being the cheapest feeling.

I have read bad reviews on this gun, and good ones. Same with all the others next in line.

For the price, you might want to just save up a few extra bucks and get something better quality.

You get what you pay for, and at first I didn’t realize it until I handled a few guns in the same class. The Steogers feel like they are made with cheaper metals and synthetics.

In any event, go handle a few of these guns. buy the one that seems to fit you the best!