Hunters register 54,000 deer opening weekend

I have to completely agree with rrr on this one, I’ve deer hunted SE MN for over FORTY years. 8-10 years ago SE MN had the healthiest herd of any place around.
Now all you hunters who hunt private land and want to practice QDM knock yourself out put DO NOT shove it down my throat.
On a side note our season this year. 8 guys, 9 days and not one LEGAL buck.
what we did see is all these little scrub bucks chasing does. And there aren’t that many does left. “if you want meat shoot a doe” this is not working.

@rrr – if you’re adamant about being able to hunt during the rut, why not let people fish the inland lakes year round?

IF it would help, I would be in favor of not hunting during the rut – but that would mean for ALL deer hunters, and I doubt the bowhunters would be in favor.

Mn is somewhat unique with our shoot-em-up, fill the all tags in the party heritage. What’s wrong with that? Variety is the spice of life…..

I always find these conversions interesting.

I also find it interesting to read comments from people who hide behind a user name and attack other people. Put your full name in your user I.D. and then see what your opinions are in a public format.

We should all feel free to share opinions, but to hide from them is shameful in my opinion.

I find it interesting how free roaming animals become so personal to other people. Many people try to say what’s best for the herd, yet almost no one person here had permission to hunt the land I do. Furthermore, I own zero acres.

Good luck hunting!

Slack,

Why do you think the deer herd is in such tough shape in the 300 zone? I’ve heard this consistently from many people. The lack of mature deer – both does and bucks is hard to come by down there. I’ve never hunted down there so I don’t have any first hand experience. Just thinking out loud, I wonder if the public land isn’t beat to death with too many hunters?

Timmy wrote:

IF it would help, I would be in favor of not hunting during the rut – but that would mean for ALL deer hunters, and I doubt the bowhunters would be in favor.

Mn is somewhat unique with our shoot-em-up, fill the all tags in the party heritage. What’s wrong with that? Variety is the spice of life…..

Spot on Timmy! Maybe you and I really could be friends…

Hunting the rut has very little to do with the overall issue of the numbers of deer. Whether or not there is a lack of mature deer is an interesting question, but anecdotal observations aren’t evidence one way or the other.

The central problem in the two hard-hit zones in MN is that the DNR fixated on one management factor (hunter harvest) and forgot about the VASTLY more significant factors of winter kill and preadaptation because for a period of almost 15 years, these, coincidentally, were hardly a factor at all. In 2013 and 2014 both predators and winter came roaring back and caught the DNR flat footed and looking ONLY at hunter harvest. In both of these years the DNR unwittingly allowed record harvests (by historical standards) to continue AND then winter kill and record numbers of wolves did the rest.

Everything isn’t lost, but the DNR needs to be vastly more proactive in adjusting harvest opportunities and numbers based not just on target herd size, but also based on the past winter and factoring in a dramatically increased estimate for wolf kills in the NEW wolf range. Which is now half of the state for all practical purposes.

BTW, this is not a “hunter appeasement solution”. A lot of hunters will be VERY unhappy in the near term because getting real is going to be very unpopular, especially with hunters who have come to expect that they will be able to fill their freezer with venison each and every year. Antlerless permits may need to be further reduced or eliminated even APR may be needed in some areas to further reduce the harvest.

We’re at a real crossroads in MN when it comes to the 10 year future of deer and deer hunting in this state. There is a LOT riding on the relative severity of this winter.

Grouse

Grouse

Kooty,
I’ve been hunting in the 300 zone for 20+ years. Right now there are pockets of deer and there are some areas with less deer than people would like to see. Just like anywhere else. We’ve also had a couple “old fashioned” winters where we’ve had a decent amount of snow and cold. That doesn’t help a deer herd.

Over the last 5 years we’ve watched our deer numbers go from decent, to good and back to poor. last year we never fired a gun or launched an arrow. We never even had pictures of a decent buck. Very unlikely for the area we hunt. This year things have really bounced back. Numbers seem to be increasing and the amount of bucks on our farm looks promising.

I think the deer population is reliant on so many factors it’s hard to pinpoint one thing and call blame to it. You can bundle weather, coyote population, hunter success, change in habitat, lack of winter forage and I’m sure 20 other variables.

I do tend to agree that moving the MN gun season out of the peak of the rut would increase the amount of mature bucks in MN. It’s a no-brainer, just look at the states around us for example. On the other hand, I know how fun the woods can be in early November and I know how tradition works for some people.

The DNR will never satisfy everybody, but I’m happy with the way things are currently looking around the area I hunt.

Grouse,

The DNR does NOT have free reign on controlling deer numbers. As you said, there are many other parties that have a say besides hunters. Deer numbers are down across MN… and a lot of people smiling because of it. The DNR can’t just manage the herd for hunters and whats best for deer. Those that are smiling have deep pockets and are not arguing among themselves… they all want the same thing… LESS DEER.

Putting in my 50th year in a Mn. deer stand–both bow and rifle—I will throw in my 2 cents here on the “hunt the rut or not” subject.

1. Years ago, when the Mn. rifle season was the last week of November–hunting success/percentages ( per DNR counts) was about the same as the average year since it changed to the earlier one. Some better and some worse…and at least in our experience in north central Mn., the late season plan didn’t produce more bigger bucks than we get nowadays during the earlier so called rut season. We got some big ones back then and we get some big ones nowadays and we got about the same spikes and forks back then that we get nowadays in the earlier season at the same rate/percentages.

Without a doubt, no matter where you go in the state (Minnesota) these days, there are WAAAAY more deer, Does, all sizes of Bucks and Fawns then there was after all those years of late November deer seasons. For many reasons no doubt…but surely a later season would not improve deer numbers across the board.

2. Per the wildlife biologists—the peak of the rut in NORTHERN Mn. is around November 11th. The further south you go, the later it gets. Some here refer to MI. and WI. later deer seasons–and being both of those two states are mostly quite a ways south of Mn. latitude-wise, it just might be all relative, for most of those two states, being a week later than MN.

I agree with RRR!! Just my 2 cents with no further comment.

You guys have some very valid points. There are many, many factors that come into play. Some of which us hunters cringe to think about.

Having grown up in a state that hunts post rut(primarily) and never being able to party hunt/cross tag I understand the traditions that mean so much to some are lost on me.

kooty wrote:

Slack,

Why do you think the deer herd is in such tough shape in the 300 zone? I’ve heard this consistently from many people. The lack of mature deer – both does and bucks is hard to come by down there. I’ve never hunted down there so I don’t have any first hand experience. Just thinking out loud, I wonder if the public land isn’t beat to death with too many hunters?

Kooty,
your assessment is spot on. I’m not fortunate enough to own or have access to private land to hunt. So I’m limited to public land and it has gotten so bad that after this year I have probably purchased my last deer license. When the DNR went to this APR they still needed to sell license so they allowed ALL hunters to shoot a legal or a doe and the biggest mistake they made was they made both seasons exactly the same, so after 5-6 years of the DNR promoting “if it’s brown it’s down” except they do protect the SMALL bucks, think of that for a minute “protect the small bucks” and shoot every thing else.
Now I don’t base my assessment of the sorry state of the deer herd by the number of deer I see when afield, there are many variables the influence deer movement on any given day. I base my assessment on the amount of sign I no longer see in the woods. I don’t use trail cameras or any other modern tecno gadgets I rely on my 40+ years of experience as a woodsman and a deer hunter.

Geez guys I’m new here but don’t you think its time to change the subject? Lets see how about ………How about lake Mille Lacs?

mike_utley wrote:

I also find it interesting to read comments from people who hide behind a user name and attack other people. Put your full name in your user I.D. and then see what your opinions are in a public format.

We should all feel free to share opinions, but to hide from them is shameful in my opinion.

..That is so TRUE Mike Utly.. There are few a here on this Awesome site that have very weak bios. for example you can not even tell what state PTB is from……. Hello mr. kooty– I don’t believe I called you names. All I said was the bow hunters that want to change my deer hunting and the rest of the hunters that enjoy the 1st gun season. Are being selfish. You do not want your bow season changed and I do not want my gun season changed. ..rrr Randy Stevens

Mike Klawitter wrote:

Geez guys I’m new here but don’t you think its time to change the subject? Lets see how about ………How about lake Mille Lacs?

.. Anyone know how thick the ice is on the big pond.? rrr Randy stevens

Slack – I’m accustomed to applying for coveted tags out west for big game like elk and not drawing for years at a time. I hope it doesn’t get to this here. The traditions so many are so passionate about here will be changed.

I wasn’t bashing gun hunters in any means at all . In fact I’ve gun hunted Minnesota ,Wisconsin, Iowa, and Montana for Whitetails . Yes my passion is in bow hunting by far. I was just seeing from my experience in the deer woods in Minnesota was not necessarily the deer numbers. It was the lack of mature whitetails . I thought if the state would move back the firearms season it would help the herd. It’s our part as fellow hunters and outdoorsman to be good conservationists also . I’ve learned over the year’s you can’t always take from the woods. You have to give back also. Yes in Iowa there seems to be more mature whitetails . Is it because our gun season is later ?? Honestly can’t answer that, but I’m sure it helps. Every deer hunter alive wants to hunt the rut. Heck that’s what we live for. It was just my opinion. No hard feelings here. In the long run we all love the outdoors , so let’s enjoy it. An keep the good in our fellow comrade here on this great site we’ve all have enjoyed.

Hunters register 102,000 deer through second weekend

Minnesota hunters registered 102,000 deer through the second weekend of firearms deer season, down 31,000 from the same period in 2013, according to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources.

So far this year, hunters during special hunts, and the archery and firearms seasons, have harvested 115,000 deer, down from the 2013 to-date harvest total of 147,500.

“Comparing this year’s harvest to harvests in previous years doesn’t necessarily reflect hunter opportunity or the number of deer on the landscape in 2014,” said Leslie McInenly, DNR big game program leader. This year’s lower harvest is by design because regulations were implemented to place more deer – particularly does – off limits to increase Minnesota’s deer population.

The DNR’s ongoing deer management work also includes upcoming revisions to the deer population goals for large portions of northeastern, north-central and east-central Minnesota. This is part of a multi-year goal-setting process for the entire state. People interested in helping set these deer population goals can get more information on the process and opportunities for involvement.

In much of Minnesota, the deer season concluded on Sunday, Nov. 16. Additional deer will be harvested during the northern rifle zone season, which continues through Sunday, Nov. 23; the late southeastern season, which runs Saturday, Nov. 22, through Sunday, Nov. 30; and the muzzleloader season, which begins Saturday, Nov. 29, and continues through Sunday, Dec. 14. The archery season also runs through Wednesday, Dec. 31.

ya but…… As long as we are going to keep going on this, here’s what I think….
Change sucks for most of us… Anytime something gets moved or changed someone is going to get ticked off.
I believe that the DNR messed up with letting people have the option of killing up to 5 deer, IMO. But I’m sure also that to some it was a real Bonanza.
QDM to some is the cats meow, not to me, but I can adapt. I hunt for pleasure, not for status, I have a pair without getting a huge deer.
If I have the opportunity to shoot a large animal I will and I will also claim the bragging rights to go with it.
How I feel is how I feel and I wouldn’t push what I believe on someone else.
Times they are a changing, I can adapt.

I wouldn’t trade anything for my hunting memories afield however the fondest/longest memories are from the many times after that we cook and enjoy the venison. I have yet to try grilled antler so I guess I cannot comment on its flavor.

For me, its about matching wits against a buck that is a proven survivor as all mature whitetails are. They are like ghosts in the woods. Same reason I like to try and catch big fish. I don’t hear criticism of people trying to catch pig walleyes as having not having a ‘pair’. I actually am more inclined to keep a big buck that I kill a secret given the way word spreads on the internet today.

If all you care about is shooting something brown so you can have the meat, then why are you so set on hunting the rut? You can have a great hunting experience after the rut. Not being critical… just asking.

FYI – Iowa’s gun season being set in December was not for management purposes but that is just when it worked between the harvest and the holidays. It just so happens that it worked out to avoid the rut and I’m glad its that way. I’m also glad Iowa doesn’t allow rifles.

Good luck to all in heading into the woods!

youngfry wrote:

I’m also glad Iowa doesn’t allow rifles.

How does everyone think the harvest totals would change if MN was to go to a shotgun only state instead of moving the timing of the gun season?

youngfry wrote:

FYI – Iowa’s gun season being set in December was not for management purposes but that is just when it worked between the harvest and the holidays. It just so happens that it worked out to avoid the rut and I’m glad its that way. I’m also glad Iowa doesn’t allow rifles.

Good luck to all in heading into the woods!

I would venture this is the reason many states seasons are where they are. It has nothing to do with hunting out of the rut so there could be more big bucks.

blackbay wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>youngfry wrote:</div>

I would venture this is the reason many states seasons are where they are. It has nothing to do with hunting out of the rut so there could be more big bucks.

Exactly, because they were set before people cared much about such things. I will say that if the dates were ever to be changed to allow gun hunting during the rut… a big majority of Iowa hunters would be against it.

Kentucky Boy… I don’t think it would change the harvest #’s much. I think limiting to shotgun allows a few more big bucks to slip through the cracks and make it another season. Iowa’s big deer are a combination of many things that add up to consistently bigger bucks than other states. Shotgun only + No gun during the rut + tight quota on non-resident hunting pressure + good genetics + other factors

There have been a # of posts here that say the #s of deer are way down in zone 300. I do not believe that is true for a number of reasons. 1st off all the deer sign is just awesome pre rut and the rut its self.! Not only are we hunting zone 300 but also area 346 witch is still a intensive harvest area. I am lucky enough to be able to hunt VERY GOOD deer country on private land….About 25 yrs. ago are party switched from the 2nd season (known as the doe season) to hunt the 1st. season(known as the buck season)..The 2nd season you could shoot any deer you wanted to be it buck doe or fawn. But the buck season was the BUCK SEASON. Every time you would hear a shot it was at a buck only. So there wasn’t a lot of shooting going on. In those yrs. when it was bucks only we had very good success on big bucks. With a # of them going on the wall. Now that has all CHANGED. Now you can shoot does and fawns in the 1st season. The pressure 0n these 1st season deer is ten times or more than it used to be.! Now that you can shoot does APR bucks and fawns. On opening weekend its sounds like WAR with all the shooting going on.!!! Now with all that pressure a lot of the bucks go into survival mode. They are only active at night. In the snow this yr. the sign tells you that plain and simple. In the old bucks only season you would here a shot here there off in the distance. With the lack of pressure now the big bucks would do what big bucks wanted to do.! Its NO longer that way. Now we are lucky to shoot one or 2 good bucks a yr. For are party of 6. When we used to FILL OUT with bucks Most yrs. The pressure has made the 1st season just another shoot-um-up-season. And the Big Boys go into hiding.!! This is rugged country and the big boys know how to use it. NOW THEY REALLY DO BECOME THE GOSTS OF THE WOODS….IMHO…rrr

blackbay wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>youngfry wrote:</div>
FYI – Iowa’s gun season being set in December was not for management purposes but that is just when it worked between the harvest and the holidays. It just so happens that it worked out to avoid the rut and I’m glad its that way. I’m also glad Iowa doesn’t allow rifles.

Good luck to all in heading into the woods!

I would venture this is the reason many states seasons are where they are. It has nothing to do with hunting out of the rut so there could be more big bucks.

I don’t think the dnr puts seasons in place for trophy hunting, imo it has more to do with hunting big game at their most vulnerable/visible time. If you look to western states especially, you’re hard pressed to find an elk, mule deer, antelope, etc gun season that coincides with the rut. Can’t we apply the same logic to fishing seasons? If the dnr isn’t intending to protect vulnerable game, why not let us fish during the spawn for our favorite game fish on inland lakes?

There is a series of Q&A videos that Drury Outdoors did with Iowa DNR biologists and some other folks that answers how management works, what goes into it, why season’s are set how they are.

View the videos here (Scroll to the bottom)

I realize that we are talking about MN BUT these states talk to each other so this can give you a little more FACTUAL information about how deer are managed rather than what Jethro at the local watering hole told you after 5 pints of stout.

My question to all of you who are in Favor of moving the Rifle season out of the rut is this? How do you time that a 1/2 year in advance. I’ve had Rifle seasons where most of the rut was over prior to the season even starting. I’ve had seasons where the rut has not even began by the end of rifle season. If you know when peak rut is going to be by the time they need to decide and publish the firearm seasons each year please give all of the hunters out there those dates now. I sure there are lots of hunters who would like that Info. years in advance. As far as moving the date of firearm season out of the rut. This would do little for the overall deer population. If anything it would most likely hurt it. Keep in mind taking a buck ( any size – Monster rack or spike buck ) out during season only lowers the population by 1 the following season. Making bucks harder to hunt and thus forcing those who want to shoot a deer to shoot a doe will result in up to 3 less deer next season. Its rater simple. To grow overall deer populations we need more doe’s not more bucks. Those in favor of moving the rifle season out the rut want to do so for one reason. Grow bigger racked deer. I have no problem with those who hunt for the sole reason of shooting a big racked deer. Just stop hiding this fact behind things like APR is better for the deer herd. Moving the rifle season out of the rut is better for the deer herd. These simply are tools to grow bigger racked deer. I don’t like when those try to push their agenda ( BIG Racked deer ) at the expense of those who deer hunt for other reasons. Enjoyment of the hunt, Spending time with family and friends in the woods and camps, and yes shooting a deer for the enjoyment of the meat. Hunters all hunt for different reasons, and we all need to respect each other for their reasons.

fishthumper wrote:

My question to all of you who are in Favor of moving the Rifle season out of the rut is this? How do you time that a 1/2 year in advance. I’ve had Rifle seasons where most of the rut was over prior to the season even starting. I’ve had seasons where the rut has not even began by the end of rifle season.

..fishthumper…My understanding of when the rut is. Has always been that rut is the same time every year. It is calendar thing and not weather. The weather plays a big part in how active the bucks are. The warmer the weather is the less active the bucks will be. And there activety is done mostly at night. The colder the weather the more active. Over the years here were I hunt I have found that to be true. …rrr

..fishthumper…My understanding of when the rut is. Has always been that rut is the same time every year. It is calendar thing and not weather. The weather plays a big part in how active the bucks are. The warmer the weather is the less active the bucks will be. And there activety is done mostly at night. The colder the weather the more active. Over the years here were I hunt I have found that to be true. …rrr

RRR – As much as I agree with some of your other points I have to disagree with you on this one. There are many factors that determine the rut. ( some of which no one knows ) Although the peak of the rut may fall within a few weeks of each other each year. The overall rut may vary Greatly from one year to the next. But once again we are each free to have our own opinion