Hunter dog KILLED in body grip trap…..

  • Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1471673

    Anyone have any details on this?
    To bad another dog is killed by these traps. There are several other options for these trappers but this is ridiculous by the trapping community not to get on board and eliminate this practice. IMHO

    CO Paul Parthun (Lake George) broke ice with his kayak checking waterfowl hunters so winter is on the way. He assisted the sheriff’s department with a vehicle in the ditch call and worked some late night shining details. Parthun assisted a hunter whose dog was killed in a body gripping trap. A reminder that the small game season in the Schoolcraft Game Refuge is closing.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18531
    #1471676

    I wish all traps could be opened by hand. That seems like a simple request/regulation.

    cougareye
    Hudson, WI
    Posts: 4145
    #1471718

    I noticed the ND Game and Fish this year was warning waterfowl hunters of the dangers of dogs and traps. They included a full page with three attachments on how to safely remove your dog from a trap. This type of trap they did note that you only have a small window of time to get your dog out of it. I imagine several instances where you might not have the chance to rescue your dog even if you knew how, such as the dog getting stuck on a longer retrieve over water that you can’t quickly or safely cross yourself.

    Here is the link to their page.

    http://gf.nd.gov/hunting/trapping-and-snaring/traps-and-dogs

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18531
    #1471720

    If ever in doubt just pick one up. I did again this weekend and disgustedly through it back in the box. I’m not against trapping but I am against these traps.

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1471724

    I noticed the ND Game and Fish this year was warning waterfowl hunters of the dangers of dogs and traps. They included a full page with three attachments on how to safely remove your dog from a trap. This type of trap they did note that you only have a small window of time to get your dog out of it. I imagine several instances where you might not have the chance to rescue your dog even if you knew how, such as the dog getting stuck on a longer retrieve over water that you can’t quickly or safely cross yourself.

    Here is the link to their page.

    http://gf.nd.gov/hunting/trapping-and-snaring/traps-and-dogs

    Good info from ND. Does anyone know if its legal to trap on Public land in ND like it is in MN?

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1471726

    If ever in doubt just pick one up. I did again this weekend and disgustedly through it back in the box. I’m not against trapping but I am against these traps.

    When I find one on public land it somehow goes missing…….

    And I also am not against trapping in general.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11519
    #1471739

    Sorry, you’re entitled to your opinion, but that does not justify you stealing someone’s property. Oh, and by the way, in addition to theft, interfering with legal hunting, fishing, and trapping activities is a crime in itself.

    Stealing from someone engaged in a legal activity makes you nothing but a thief. It’s not a protest because it does nothing to change the law.

    Grouse

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13394
    #1471746

    FYI – If your referring to WI, please be aware that the following law is enforced

    Stealing or molesting traps, cable restraints, snares, animals or the contents
    of any lawfully placed trap, cable restraint or snare is a criminal act and is
    punishable by fine ($300-$1,000), imprisonment (up to 90 days) or both and
    a mandatory 5-year revocation of license.

    I’m a dog lover and have a lab and a Britney…and I AM A TRAPPER. I have a responsibility to place ethical sets to try and avoid non-targeted species. I agree there are a limitted few trappers that don’t do the same, as there is in ANY sport. But we all share public lands and a have a responsibility to understand the use of the land by others – not just ourselves. Just like I try to make sets to avoid dogs, those that run dogs need to educate themselves on the risks that are there. Its a two way street and ignorance is no excuse. ALL of the trapping communities including the National Trappers association, State level associations, and countless instructors and individual trappers do all we can to help educate and share information. Because a number of hunters think they have free reign of the land and don’t need to be educated on “other’s” use is pathetic in my opinion.

    BTW – I’m thinking all Rapala shad raps, Scatter raps, and spinner baits should now be sold with NO HOOKS or banned. Over he coarse of this summer, I had to cut a spinner bait out of my dogs mouth, take a shad rap off of his leg, and a scatter rap out of his gut. Never had an issue before, then 3 times in one summer. Am I over-reacting?? What if he caught a hook in his eyes and was blinded or in an artery and killed????

    I’m not looking to start an argument over all of this. I know and accept trapping is well within the minority of sportsmen. But we have an equal opportunity to use our resources and MUST work together to maintain unity. Being against things and definitely being public in molesting someone’s traps is way over the line and makes you equally as pathetic as a trapper that uses no ethics or common sense, which then reflects poorly on all of us.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18531
    #1471748

    What about banning or redesigning conibear traps? They are the problem.
    Doesn’t seem fair that someone should be able to leave a trap on public land that cannot be opened should it trap a dog or person. Leg holds and snares can be removed by hand. They banned bear traps long ago.

    mark-bruzek
    Two Harbors, MN
    Posts: 3859
    #1471750

    Yes it is an unfortunate happening, but IMHO the body grips are the most humane method of trap available. No I am not a trapper due to personal reasons but I do not condemn the practice and look at it from a logical aspect.

    I look at it this way, rather than a leg hold trap holding an animal suffering until the trap line is checked (keep in mind not every trap line is ran by ethical trappers who check them regularly) body grips are a much quick death in most cases. It is the lesser of the evils.

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1471757

    Sorry, you’re entitled to your opinion, but that does not justify you stealing someone’s property. Oh, and by the way, in addition to theft, interfering with legal hunting, fishing, and trapping activities is a crime in itself.

    Stealing from someone engaged in a legal activity makes you nothing but a thief. It’s not a protest because it does nothing to change the law.

    Grouse

    For the record I was just being sarcastic. I have never removed a trap/taken/stolen or any thing else except When I do find one, body grip, on public land I trip the trap and leave it be.

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1471759

    Randy,

    I have tried your method listed above and yes it does work but by the time you find your dog it will be too late. I also think it is the trapper responsibility to not harm my dog on public land. I nothing against trapping but to endanger anyone or none targeted animal in a trap on public land is just plane wrong. Why can’t trappers change there method for using these traps that are safe for dogs?

    Take a look at this link https://www.google.com/search?q=conibear+traps&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&imgil=M-zJ3brR_gO_4M%253A%253BKaqe6Ym9jSKy3M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Futahpaws.org%25252Fpet_safety%25252Fconibear_traps&source=iu&pf=m&fir=M-zJ3brR_gO_4M%253A%252CKaqe6Ym9jSKy3M%252C_&usg=__vS3qmJsmUd7uFIeLdAE1efWjv8I%3D&biw=1264&bih=776&ved=0CFQQyjc&ei=_vBgVKazONeAygSvn4HgCQ#imgdii=_

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13394
    #1471762

    Ican’t speak for all states because I don’t know their laws. But ethical trappers will create a restricted opening that will discriminate to their target species. All my Dryland trapping is on private land where dogs are not allowed to free roam. Not everyone has the same opportunity as me and must utilize public land.

    You are correct in not having a lot of time. Again, I feel it’s a shared responsibility.
    As for the link to pics, I put very little stock in the authenticity of most. I’ve been in trapping all my life and have seen the countless staged pictures by peta freaks. Sad because it takes from the legitimate times a failure happens. But way too many staged pics are on the Web and I learned to give them no attention

    robby
    Quad Cities
    Posts: 2821
    #1471782

    I’m with Randy here. Theft is wrong. Trap and/or fur theft is just as disheartening to me as treestand or tackle theft. I had a fur theif last year. He learned his lesson.

    brad-o
    Mankato
    Posts: 410
    #1471797

    As a bird dog owner I feel for the loss. Most finished dogs will be well north of 5 grand. But if you want high bird # you need trappers. Final thought on the legal talk, the law means nothing this country is run on the court of popular opinion. The trappers would stand no chance.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13394
    #1471833

    Brad, The trappers would stand no chance.
    Do a little research on recent events over the last few years regarding protecting trappers rights. I think you would be shocked how strong we are.

    to_setter
    Stone Lake, WI
    Posts: 591
    #1471843

    Our pointing dog club had a trapping group want to come and make a little presentation on trapping and how to remove a dog from a trap should your pooch get caught in one while out hunting. It was a great idea and I’m very glad they did it. Prior to their presentation, I wouldn’t have known how to get my dog out of the various type traps, but now I do. I think this went a long way towards making a good relationship between trappers and bird dog guys.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13394
    #1471851

    to_setter,
    Glad you were able to attend and benefited from it. Too often when I did them, I looked at a group of 15 to 25 guys and asked “how many members do you have?”. I was blown away when I heard 80, 125, 150…

    I get a bit defensive when I see these posts come up each year. Many times I see all trappers lumped together and our practices over-scrutinized because of bad judgement of a couple of individuals.

    Like Brad stated, I feel for the dog owner’s loss. Having dogs myself, their companionship and loyalty is nearly unmatched.

    to_setter
    Stone Lake, WI
    Posts: 591
    #1471863

    Randy- This presentation was held on our field trail day, so most members and even many people that were not members were there. The trapping presentation itself was very well attended and well received. There was a very good question / answer session at the end and everyone got along really well. I will say though there were a LOT of dog owners that were shocked at how difficult it could be to remove your dog from some traps if you didn’t understand how they worked. I think most assumed that it was just simple to remove a dog from a trap. Every dog owner there was glad they learned what they learned that day.

    One other thing I found valuable was hearing what types of areas/cover the trappers prefer to use. It gave me an idea of what areas to avoid with the dogs.

    brad-o
    Mankato
    Posts: 410
    #1471871

    Brad, The trappers would stand no chance.
    Do a little research on recent events over the last few years regarding protecting trappers rights. I think you would be shocked how strong we are.
    I am all for trapping what I am saying is if enough dogs are getting trapped the public will freak out and go after trappers.

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1471915

    Your right Randy, I trap too and am trapping right now. Its a 2 way street and its also the responsibility of the dog owner to know where his dog is. Accidents happen and to show how concerned the DNR in Iowa is, its against the law to use a big body grip trap such as a 330 Conibear, big enough to do harm to a dog, on land, it has to be completely submerged under water to lessen the threat to anyone’s dog and 95% of the time their used around beaver lodges, holes, canals and slides. A 330 is rarely used on coon, although they occasionally are because a 220 is plenty good enough. 220’s can also do a dog harm but again its up to the dogs owner to ask the landowner if he allowed anyone to trap his land.

    A good tool for a duck hunter or a bird hunter to carry is a trap setting clamp that is used to compress the springs on anything bigger then a 110 Conibear type body grip trap which can be compressed by just about any male. Duck hunters should have one in their boat where 330’s may be used for beavers and otters and upland hunters should maybe carry one on a lanyard attached to their belt for a just incase situation, their under $20. I used to hunt with brittneys and both of my dogs were from national field trial champion bloodlines and I knew there was a chance that someone might have a trap out there but I didn’t cuss that person because I knew he was doing what he wanted to do also. If my dog would have gotten caught in a trap it would have been unfortunate but I wouldn’t have cussed the guy who owned the trap.

    Engineering is a remarkable thing and many things can be accomplished but its hard to do other things and get them to perform to everyones standards.

    I know something about what it takes to make a spring for a conibear type trap, that can be collapsed immediately to release a dog. You’d have to make a hinge in the wire, used to make the spring, with a ferrel that could slide off of the hinged area of the wire etc. and it would take another tool to get the ferrel to slide. Or a mount plate that could be easily slid, The main problem is the traps spring isn’t relaxed and is in the loaded position because of the mass of the dog and there would be resistance, so again it would be hard to accomplish the task in enough time to get the dog out with minimual harm.

    To make a long technical story short its a good idea to carry a pair of trap tongs that compress the spring on all body grip traps for a just incase situation. If a dog gets caught in one accidently its very unfortunate and you’d have maybe two minutes to get the dog out, then you may have to take him to the vet and more then likely would. Body grip traps play for keeps and their designed to be that way, a humane way to kill a fur bearer.

    Heres another way to look at it. I knew a woman who was a seamstress and lived in N.E. Iowa. One day I went to see a friend of mine and he told me she died riding her motorcycle. I asked what happened and he said a 25 lb. coon ran out infront of her and she hit it. She lost control of her bike and she died and so did the coon. Trapping is very beneficial to everyone but like many things and often enough there’s a bad side too.

    Because of resistance in the traps spring, it would be very hard to make a body grip trap where all you would have to do is move something and the trap would release because the spring is loaded and in that position their hard to get them to do anything without a spring compressing tool. If an engineer came up with a useful and durable design I’d be the first to pat him on the back and sorry to say but for now that’s just the way it is because Id hate too loose my dog too, and would if I didn’t have a spring compressing tool.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1471995

    I love dogs to pieces and I am not a trapper outside of pests [mice, shrews, moles] here at home. I have a couple of #0 jaw traps for chucks if they show up and those are set waaay back in their holes when I need to use them. I feel for those who have had dogs caught in traps, but I also agree with those that trap and use public land that the land is a multi-use property and all have access to use it within the law. Something here has not been mentioned and that is the control of dogs on public land is the responsibility of the dog owner. I think a lot of these incidents occur when “runners” break that zone of command and are out of control. This doesn’t fall on the trapper, it falls on the dog handler/owner.

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1472245

    I love dogs to pieces and I am not a trapper outside of pests [mice, shrews, moles] here at home. I have a couple of #0 jaw traps for chucks if they show up and those are set waaay back in their holes when I need to use them. I feel for those who have had dogs caught in traps, but I also agree with those that trap and use public land that the land is a multi-use property and all have access to use it within the law. Something here has not been mentioned and that is the control of dogs on public land is the responsibility of the dog owner. I think a lot of these incidents occur when “runners” break that zone of command and are out of control. This doesn’t fall on the trapper, it falls on the dog handler/owner.

    So a hunter, hunting on public land, is supposed to keep his dog on a leash so the dog won’t end up in a trap set by a trapper on public land? Really????
    Do you hunt? Have you ever been hunting with a dog in MN?

    Makes “0” sense to me. When hunting upland birds in MN I am leaving nothing behind that anyone has to worry about for their own personal safety or their dogs or any other animal for that matter.

    Sure public land is multi-use property but where does it say that I can potentially harm, by my actions of leaving a trap, on public land anyone else or their property or their pet?

    I can guarantee that if my dog ever was caught in a trap on public land that the owner of that trap will end up in court for damaging/hurting/killing my dog.

    All that is needed to fix this problem is for trappers to agree to the same laws that numerous other states have for this exact issue.

    Once again this web site has great information:
    http://www.doglovers4safetrappingmn.org/what-we-want

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18531
    #1472248

    I’m with you Stinky.

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1472253

    For those that don’t want to go to the link I provided above.

    “What We Want – Proven Methods

    We want to protect dogs by establishing the following for body grip traps and lethal snares.

    We want these proven methods to be used. Tens of thousands of trappers in other states and Canadian provinces use these proven methods and don’t kill dogs.
    Five feet above the ground or ice.
    Submerged in water.
    In boxes that exclude dogs
    Lethal land snares replaced with non-lethal cable restraint snares.
    Here are the current totally ineffective body grip trap regulations. 2013 Minnesota Trapping Regulations They will not protect your dog.
    The same sets that have been killing MN dogs for decades are still legal.”

    killerhiller
    Hastings, MN
    Posts: 24
    #1472339

    As a former trapper in my youth, I don’t care for conibears set on land that can catch dogs. I appreciate what trappers do, but common sense can be uncommon often. A dog in a 330 is dead(I think that is illegal on land in MN right?), a dog in a 220 has little time before its dead if its isn’t seriously injured anyway.
    I had a dog get in a #2 or 1.5 coil spring leg hold, only to be snared the following month. He was 1.5 years old at the time and it ruined him for hunting. refused to hunt the sloughs and grass. I guess I was lucky that I got to him fast both times, but still cost me plenty in vet bills and one doctor visit for me for and pretty good bite on my hand. That, however, was on private land with the trapper not having permission. Those traps were damaged while I removed my dog from them.
    Just my opinion. Don’t like it, don’t care

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1472398

    I got a question for you guys that have dogs, If someone could develop a bodyhold trap that if your dog got caught 40′ yards out from you and all you would have to do is walk up and pull on the spring and the trap would free the dog, what would you think of a trap like this. Hes going have a few sore spots but he should be able to get up and go hunting again. Would you guys be in favor of a trap like this’ Just a question for my own diary and important things I like to remember, please post away. You won’t be insulting anyone here at my place. Again please post away

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1472420

    I got a question for you guys that have dogs, If someone could develop a bodyhold trap that if your dog got caught 40′ yards out from you and all you would have to do is walk up and pull on the spring and the trap would free the dog, what would you think of a trap like this. Hes going have a few sore spots but he should be able to get up and go hunting again. Would you guys be in favor of a trap like this’ Just a question for my own diary and important things I like to remember, please post away. You won’t be insulting anyone here at my place. Again please post away

    40 yards is not very far out. Still in shotgun range. But if the distance was unlimited and I was able to get my dog out without any injuries besides a couple of bruises or sore spots that would be a huge improvement from the typical body hold conibear trap.

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