How Can We Keep Our Schools Safe?

I think you missed the point. Have there been mass head buttings at schools? Did some nutjob kick 20 kids to death? Did any of these incidents have a knife wielding psycho trying to slash our kids? Taking away the AR’s does zero. 4 semi auto handguns loaded in a backpack would inflict just as much carnage. It will happen again in another couple months unless something is done soon. (Quoted from earlier post)

It will happen again in a few months even if something is done. It will just be another “tool” used to commit the heinous act.

foulpole18 wrote:

It will happen again in a few months even if something is done. It will just be another “tool” used to commit the heinous act.

Absolutely true. I’ve tried to get this exact same thing through people’s heads. I have a daughter that is a teacher and a wife in the district. The crap pumped in their heads is disgusting. Two things are needed. 1. Short term understanding that there will only be bandaids to help reduce the frequency. 2. Long term a change in society

According to the cdc 209 children from the ages of 0-14 were killed in alcohol related automobile crashes in 2015 alone! When i look up school shooting deaths the highest # i can find is A total of 297 since 1980. Sooooooooooo yeah we should ban black rifles because your beer and whiskey and wine are way more important. You can believe what you want the information is out there. But why focus on the smaller issue simply because the media and government point you in that direction? Read your history then read the constitution then read all the facts from all sides then make up your own mind. I’m not in any way saying school shootings arnt bad and despicable I’m just saying that alcohol is worse. And if you can’t see that, maybe you should go to AA and sober UP!

As for keeping our schools safe, I suggest home school. Then it’s up to the parents to keep their own children safe at all times. Or teach your children and other children that you may have influence on to stand up to bullys and fight back so it doesn’t escalate to shooting,stabbing or drinking.

catnip wrote:

According to the cdc 209 children from the ages of 0-14 were killed in alcohol related automobile crashes in 2015 alone! When i look up school shooting deaths the highest # i can find is A total of 297 since 1980. Sooooooooooo yeah we should ban black rifles because your beer and whiskey and wine are way more important. You can believe what you want the information is out there. But why focus on the smaller issue simply because the media and government point you in that direction? Read your history then read the constitution then read all the facts from all sides then make up your own mind. I’m not in any way saying school shootings arnt bad and despicable I’m just saying that alcohol is worse. And if you can’t see that, maybe you should go to AA and sober UP!

This type of argument works if you believe that people/society can only worry about one problem at a time.

Is alcohol abuse a problem in the US? YES! We should try to do something about that.

Is suicide/mental health a problem? Yes! same.

Are mass shootings a problem? Yes! same.

This, ‘well there’s a bigger/different problem out there so ignore this one” doesn’t get us anywhere. We can care about more than one thing at a time! No one disagrees that these are big problems!

Do guns kill someone on their own? Of course not. Do nuclear weapons? Tanks? No. Do I want those to be readily available to mentally unstable individuals? No(unfortunately they kind of are in one case…).

Will shootings still happen if AR type weapons are controlled more(longer wait period, 21+, I don’t know, whatever change you can think). Definitely. I personally think the, ‘This doesn’t 100% solve the problem so we shouldn’t consider it’ argument is pretty lame though. It’s another deflecting tactic like the one above, and it’s pretty transparent.

If you knew that someone was going to come into your child’s school tomorrow with a gun, would you rather they have a pistol with a standard magazine or an AR with high-cap mags? Both result in tragedy, but I’ll take the tragedy with 6 casualties over the one with 30 any day as these are ‘inevitabilities’.

or an AR with high-cap mags?

The inevitabile is that making AR’s with high-cap mags illegal will only result in the people that want to harm another will have AR’s with high cap mags. The rest of use will simply be legal with our six shooter.

If I knew someone that was going to come into my child’s school tomorrow with a gun, I would make sure they are aware that schools are “gun free zones” and that premeditated murder is against the law. It’s been banned for a very long time.

There’s a video going around about a school that has video cameras going directly to the sheriff’s office. It appeared to be an option but I haven’t see the complete video. Off to find it.

At $400k it’s expensive but to me, it sure seems worth it.

If it was standard at schools the price would come down.
Lots of questions though…

I see all these kids marching in “protests” for gun control. To them I say… next time that kid with the funny off brand shoes, walks by in the hall, don’t make snide remarks and point at them and laugh… just shut up or say Hi. Maybe instead of poking fun at the kid with the birth deformity, invite them into your little clique and make them feel welcome in their own school. Next time you hear one of your classmates, say that so and so is “nuts” and gonna go ballistic, tell the teacher… don’t wait so you can tell CNN all about it later. You can do something, in fact you can do the most. Be the change you want to see, I know I was part of the problem in school too, kid’s can make it a very mean place. Stop marching and start mattering.

big_g wrote:

I see all these kids marching in “protests” for gun control. To them I say… next time that kid with the funny off brand shoes, walks by in the hall, don’t make snide remarks and point at them and laugh… just shut up or say Hi. Maybe instead of poking fun at the kid with the birth deformity, invite them into your little clique and make them feel welcome in their own school. Next time you hear one of your classmates, say that so and so is “nuts” and gonna go ballistic, tell the teacher… don’t wait so you can tell CNN all about it later. You can do something, in fact you can do the most. Be the change you want to see, I know I was part of the problem in school too, kid’s can make it a very mean place. Stop marching and start mattering.

And there go common sense!

big_g wrote:

I see all these kids marching in “protests” for gun control. To them I say… next time that kid with the funny off brand shoes, walks by in the hall, don’t make snide remarks and point at them and laugh… just shut up or say Hi. Maybe instead of poking fun at the kid with the birth deformity, invite them into your little clique and make them feel welcome in their own school. Next time you hear one of your classmates, say that so and so is “nuts” and gonna go ballistic, tell the teacher… don’t wait so you can tell CNN all about it later. You can do something, in fact you can do the most. Be the change you want to see, I know I was part of the problem in school too, kid’s can make it a very mean place. Stop marching and start mattering.

Bingo
Best responce I’ve read yet.

Charles wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
I see all these kids marching in “protests” for gun control. To them I say… next time that kid with the funny off brand shoes, walks by in the hall, don’t make snide remarks and point at them and laugh… just shut up or say Hi. Maybe instead of poking fun at the kid with the birth deformity, invite them into your little clique and make them feel welcome in their own school. Next time you hear one of your classmates, say that so and so is “nuts” and gonna go ballistic, tell the teacher… don’t wait so you can tell CNN all about it later. You can do something, in fact you can do the most. Be the change you want to see, I know I was part of the problem in school too, kid’s can make it a very mean place. Stop marching and start mattering.

And there go common sense!

Clearly the thought processing of a mature adult Vs. a young impressionable mind. I watched a lot of the kids that spoke yesterday and appreciate that t6hey are stepping up to do something. So many opportunities on a national level to express to them exactly what big-g stated. Crickets… over and over again it was a plea for banning the so called assault rifles (which is already banned from a technical sense) to banning any semi-auto rifle.

I just find it so hard to comprehend that no one on a national level is explaining to people in a manor of which simple minds can understand that this is a 2 step process. Nothing will have an immediate affect that is a cure-all solution. Just like any major pro0blem in life. Stop the bleeding then fix the problem

My idea to keep kids safe at schools is easy. Create a police sub station in the schools. A office that is for nothing more the police to come in and do police reports and any other computer work they need to do. No prisoners just cops doing the office work they all have to do. There is no point to all them resources concentrated in one police station when they could be out in the field achieving the same result. It’s a win, win for all. In the rural areas a officer my be in a office a long way from a call for help in the county. This way you can keep the resources spread out and in better position to handle calls. The cost would be minimal and you would never know when and how many would be working in the sub station. That’s my idea of a step in the right direction.

big_g wrote:

I see all these kids marching in “protests” for gun control. To them I say… next time that kid with the funny off brand shoes, walks by in the hall, don’t make snide remarks and point at them and laugh… just shut up or say Hi. Maybe instead of poking fun at the kid with the birth deformity, invite them into your little clique and make them feel welcome in their own school. Next time you hear one of your classmates, say that so and so is “nuts” and gonna go ballistic, tell the teacher… don’t wait so you can tell CNN all about it later. You can do something, in fact you can do the most. Be the change you want to see, I know I was part of the problem in school too, kid’s can make it a very mean place. Stop marching and start mattering.

Probably the action that would have the biggest and most immediate impact right there! Well said!

Just yesterday, Orono was on lockdown because of a threat and Woodbury also had a threat. I think we need to come down hard on these kids to scare them straight. Someone said it before, treat it like a threat on the POTUS. We’ve become way too soft…… too tolerant.

That and I have to believe video games are having an influence as well. For those of you talking about growing up decades ago, how many real-life video games did you have of shooting people? It’s disgusting actually, that we feed that stuff to our children. It’s a fact that what you feed your brain influences your thoughts. You can’t tell me that for some of these children, who spent countless hours and hours “plugged in” to a video game that is about mass death and destruction doesn’t start to have an effect.

Consider having your legislature “require” armed security in all of your schools…Then, consider recruiting from your local retired police officers.

Given their training, both in firearms and in crisis management, to me, they would be a logical first step as to who I’d be looking at as a potential person to hire…Another good point would be that if they retired locally, they likely know alot about the school itself, and a lot of the school kids, especially those who have been in trouble before…

Then, I’d recruit the military vet…

Good points. Also how many people are killed in an average week of TV. Bang-dead, walk away. Since were in a mode of making useless laws how about we require Hollywood to show 5 minutes of the true effect of each person being killed. The family getting the news. Preparation for the funeral. The kids left alone without a parent. What do you think the Hollywood hypocrites would say to that.

I believe that schools shootings unfortunately have been around for years, you just hear about it more because of the media.. When I was in grade school (7th grade), there was an expelled 14 year old kid that brought a 12 Gage shotgun into the school, walked into the principal’s office and shot the principal twice in the back, I was in a classroom right across the hall from the principal’s office, he then was going after the gym coach but could not find him. He then started to target other faculty in the school, my mother was the school nurse and had to lock her doors.. The kid also tried to enter her office. He did not appear to go after any kids though. Shortly after that the police were there and he gave himself up… He managed to only kill the principal.. This was in 1969.

I don’t care to use the words “Left” and “Right” but can’t think of anything else to describe this.

The modern day Gun debate:

Left: Do something!

Right: Okay, we’ll provide a voluntary avenue for teachers who receive training and a license to carry a concealed firearm on school grounds, and establish a program where experienced professionals (like Veterans and retired Police Officers) provide security for the school.

Left: No!

Right: Okay, Do you have have any ideas or propositions that could bring positive change, that’s based on evidence, that you would like to bring to the table?

Left: All you do is talk! We need to do something! Ban all guns now or you hate children!

Brian Klawitter wrote:

I don’t care to use the words “Left” and “Right” but can’t think of anything else to describe this.

The modern day Gun debate:

One side: Do something!

The other side: Okay, we’ll provide a voluntary avenue for teachers who receive training and a license to carry a concealed firearm on school grounds, and establish a program where experienced professionals (like Veterans and retired Police Officers) provide security for the school.

One side: No!

The other side: Okay, Do you have have any ideas or propositions that could bring positive change, that’s based on evidence, that you would like to bring to the table?

One side: All you do is talk! We need to do something! Ban all guns now or you hate children!

Yup. We cannot let them disarm us. I dont believe the anti’s have more supporters. They just get more coverage to seem that way.

Link to source here

Sheriff offers training to 50 teachers in Ohio.
Over 50 responded in 20 minutes.

Please don’t say that all teachers do not want to be armed. Please don’t say there isn’t enough time to train them. Being alive is more important then reading, writing and video games.

There are some I’m sure but it appears there are some that do not want to leave their lives in someone else’s hands.

My wife brought up an interesting point. Will armed teachers/staff increase the number of teenage suicide by teacher in lieu of by cop or other?

Brian Klawitter wrote:

I don’t care to use the words “Left” and “Right” but can’t think of anything else to describe this.

The modern day Gun debate:

Left: Do something!

Right: Okay, we’ll provide a voluntary avenue for teachers who receive training and a license to carry a concealed firearm on school grounds, and establish a program where experienced professionals (like Veterans and retired Police Officers) provide security for the school.

Left: No!

Right: Okay, Do you have have any ideas or propositions that could bring positive change, that’s based on evidence, that you would like to bring to the table?

Left: All you do is talk! We need to do something! Ban all guns now or you hate children!

I find it disappointing that a blanket analysis was brought up like this. And to boot you are gaining this understanding from the media, the very institution many on here have accused of slanting the news angle to their advantage and feeding the nation filth. I thought we were doing a lot better in this discussion when it was just a bunch of guys sick to their stomachs about this and wanting to make a change and discussing options not pointing fingers at one political group.

I would think only if they brought a weapon into the school. In most other cases, I believe they would be overpowered as in the past.

However, if anyone brings a weapon into school these days, yes they are expecting to die. Whether by teacher or by a uniform. This is why only willing and capable teachers should be trained as opposed to all teachers.

Sorry Crappie. I fixed it.

This morning in my own little part of the world we had to shut down our school because of a threat that was reported on social media. A school of just 350 students. I still have 3 students attending the school and I am on the school board. I think the appropriate action was taken. Nothing may ever come of this but a seed of fear has been planted in all 350 students and families.
The law enforcement has taken this very seriously and are doing everything in their power to resolve the situation.
That is the problem.
The people who make these threats are interviewed and let go. It is the same story over and over again. Sometimes ending in killing.
The people making these threats need to be arrested and held for a full psych evaluation. Held in an institution until it is felt that a threat no longer exists. When and if they are released all access to firearms must be restricted. Even if that means removing them from their parents or guardians homes.
This is not a gun problem!!!
It is a social, psychological, law enforcement, system problem !!!!
If we don’t like the way the story sometimes end. Change the beginning of the dang story. Treat the threat as a threat. Get these people help or incarceration, whichever is deemed necessary.

gizmoguy wrote:

Good points. Also how many people are killed in an average week of TV. Bang-dead, walk away. Since were in a mode of making useless laws how about we require Hollywood to show 5 minutes of the true effect of each person being killed. The family getting the news. Preparation for the funeral. The kids left alone without a parent. What do you think the Hollywood hypocrites would say to that.

Again, we need to look at history. Homicides are waaaaay down to where they were at in the 50’s and 60’s. Blaming TV and Video games is no different them blaming the guns. This is a horrible argument. If you can’t differentiate between real world and fantasy, you have mental illnesses.

School shootings or mass shootings tend to follow what everyone else strives for in life…Bigger and better. You see this in sport figures. You see this in singers, actors, Scientist, human right activists. Protesters. You want to make it bigger and better then anyone has done before. You want to “stand out.” This is NOT a newer society thing, this has been a way of life for every human to walk the earth. You need to find a way to stop bigger event from happening. Take that away, and you take a way the urge to do so. This brings a strong argument to rid the world of high capacity magazines. Wait, we take away the good peoples rounds, then only the bad folks have them. Again, not very good argument. Most of these shootings they either got their parents guns, a relative, or bought them themselves. They didn’t get them from the black market or gangbanger.

This is a great topic cause as you can see, there are a million different idea’s and most people are thick headed with their own…including me.

Technology does play a big role in this of course. The media does too in that they choose to provide coverage for these events but with the internet today nothing is a secret anymore. News travels across the world in hours and its available to everyone. I wasn’t alive 60 years ago but if a mass shooting happened in Florida 60 years ago and you didn’t happen to catch the 5 o clock news that day you probably wouldn’t know about it. Disenchanted kids see the media and for those that have already decided they are going to commit some act to get attention they just copy what they see happening all around because they cant think of a more creative way to act out their anger and insecurity issues.

Neal Keeling wrote:

The people making these threats need to be arrested and held for a full psych evaluation. Held in an institution until it is felt that a threat no longer exists. When and if they are released all access to firearms must be restricted. Even if that means removing them from their parents or guardians homes.

Unfortunately, as common sense as your solution is, there are still vast numbers of “no change ever” people that will spin this as a grave violation of the Second Amendment and an intolerable imposition of gun control.

Something has to give. We cannot continue to have a system that puts every possible hurdle in the way of law enforcement getting guns out of the hands of people who possibly pose a threat. “Possibly” is the key word, we have to get over this mindset where something bad has to happen before anyone can take any action.

Give our kids the same protection as POTUS. Anyone, kid or adult, who threatens a school needs to be treated as mentally ill and dangerous until they can be evaluated and treated. This means temporary or long-term removal of all guns they have direct access to, regardless of who owns them.

And before someone accuses me of “blaming the guns”, I’m not blaming the guns. I”m blaming people and a culture that has created barrier after barrier and silo after silo that now prevents mentally ill kids from getting help and therefore allows them to reach a breaking point where they pick up a gun and start shooting.

Everyone owns this problem. Kids, parents, law enforcement, social services, schools, and the freaking city street sweeper for that matter. Pretending that if “that other group” would just take care of “their” problem is pure BS.

Grouse

Mentally Ill is a very popular term in recent weeks. The White House is pushing this agenda to the public and it seems to have caught on. Define it. What is the definition of mentally ill? We are throwing this term out like its candy at a small town parade like it should should be the focus of our attention but what does it mean? Who is part of this group? Here is one from the Mayo Clinic

“Mental illness refers to a wide range of mental health conditions — disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior. Examples of mental illness include depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, eating disorders and addictive behaviors. Many people have mental health concerns from time to time”

So if we look at that statement the question is, who do we go after for “treatment” or to arrest proactively preventing an attack? Does the person with an eating disorder get put on a no gun owning list or get sent to Guantanamo for questioning along with the person with schizophrenia? I see a problem with just trying to latch onto this notion of once you find the mentally ill person and treat/eliminate them and you take care of the problem

ClownColor wrote:

Again, we need to look at history. Homicides are waaaaay down to where they were at in the 50’s and 60’s. Blaming TV and Video games is no different them blaming the guns. This is a horrible argument. If you can’t differentiate between real world and fantasy, you have mental illnesses.

You keep bringing up how bad violet crime was in the 70’s-90’s but that was a whole different story. That crime as directly related to organized crime, cocaine, crack epidemic, and street gangs. This went on for awhile until the government and local agencies really cracked down on these issues and really cleaned this up. They used things like the RICO act and gang units in police departments to send a very rigid message that this will not be tolerated and thus reducing the crime and breaking up a lot of organized crime families and street gangs. Sure, they are still around but nothing like the days of 90+ homicides in Minneapolis or the drug wars that took place in Florida and LA.

Now, if only we could find a solution for our troubles today and as much as some don’t like it I’m certain it’s going to take an enforcement measure to correct this like above, i.e. guards, substations, ect.. It worked for our issues in the 70’s-90’s, why wouldn’t it work now?

I like Big G’s idea but that’s not going to happen overnight whereas placing guards could take place tomorrow. I don’t think Big G’s idea is a lost cause at all but that’s going to be a societal change and that’s going to take some time while these things continue to happen.