x2 Well Said. Parents need to kick their kids ass like the majority of us on this website had done when we screwed up. I would guess that many people born after 1970 or so had parents that were a bit more soft on discipline
x2 Well Said. Parents need to kick their kids ass like the majority of us on this website had done when we screwed up. I would guess that many people born after 1970 or so had parents that were a bit more soft on discipline
Umm, no they don’t.
Maybe, just maybe, we need more spam in school lunches
When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn’t get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don’t want to hear “they won’t let me correct my kids”. You don’t have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.
But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer. Just my opinion,
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold�s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather�s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn’t get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don’t want to hear “they won’t let me correct my kids”. You don’t have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.
But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer.
I think the vast majority of parents who have kids on medication are doing it not to “control bad behavior” but to try to help them conquer mental or emotional disorders and be their best selves.
I can’t tell if you’re saying mental health issues are pretend, or if you believe medication is useless, or what?
That’s quite the list. My takeaway would be that yes, many kids who commit crimes have mental health issues. Shocker there. Quite the leap to make a blanket statement blaming Prozac for all these shootings.
I dont see that as a blanket statement.
I have been biting my tongue,rather restraining my typing fingers a bit so here I go.
I will be fifty five soon,I have suffered with dyslexia and what is now known as adult attention deficit disorder since I was young.
it was unknown back when I was a kid but I was extremely blessed with growing up on a farm where there was no chance for boredom,no video games,plenty of chores to do and parents that thought I was just overly active.
I thank God that I was never medicated for it.
however,I had an ingrained desire to learn everything I could,I also had a side to me that was taken care of in the woodshed,and no,I didnt go there to chop wood,neither was I beaten.
my point is,unless you are completely brain dead,you can be taught right from wrong,I know from experience.
my folks taught me and my siblings about guns of any kind at a very early age and what they could do to any living thing,that included human beings.
if we went near them or it was found out that we did,we got a lesson for it,yes,my ass got whipped and I learned to not go near it again.
Dad taught us that when you were dead,that was forever and that was a mighty long time.
when we killed something for food to eat,it was not for fun or sport,it was to live on as that was what that animal was created for.
we even asked a blessing on that food,something I still do to this day.
kids today have no chores to do to take up time and learn responsibility for,sadly they havent been taught the value of the life of any living thing.
they havent been taught the value of work,achieving a goal of any kind,instead,we have handed them everything and have taken nothing away from them.
the idea was to make it easier for them so they didnt have it as hard as we did,question yourselves,did we ever in our lifetime have it that hard??
I will also add too many kids born were used as a paycheck because someone was too lazy to go get a job,does that offend you?? good because it is the truth,cant handle that?? get out of your dream world and look around you.
while I am at it,I dare you to go to any weapon of any type,it could be a knife,hammer,saw,crowbar,ar-15,an old savage bolt action single shot 22,a gatling gun,hand grenade etc and order it to go kill something or somebody,go ahead,yell at it until the cows come home,I will bet you my life it will not get up on its own,go anywhere and kill what you ordered it to do.
how can I win that bet??? that weapon,tool,whatever you choose to call it doesnt have a heartbeat or brain that will follow orders at all.
it cannot load itself,get out of the cabinet or off of the table to complete the mission you assigned to it.
instead,it will wait on someone to come along and choose how it is used,that could include target shooting,hunting,war,or sadly,taking an innocent life in whatever walk of life.
as far as what we should be allowed to own,I want one of everything the government has so that there is a level playing field if it becomes between us and it,ya,I get it,tanks and such are a little ridiculous,or is it??
on the news today the kids in Florida were protesting against the very gun that could of saved them and they dont understand yet that being unarmed makes them an easy target even after staring down the barrel of one.
the media is having a heyday over it as this is exactly what our enemies at home and abroad want,unarmed peoples who can be driven into the corrals peacefully and they start with our children,evil at its best.
the gun is not the problem,it never has been,when someone wants to kill they will find whatever means do so.
society has changed and its going to take years to correct it,if we can,it starts with your child or grandchild,its never to late to teach or we are doomed to repeat history.
the media is having a heyday over it as this is exactly what our enemies at home and abroad want,unarmed peoples who can be driven into the corrals peacefully and they start with our children,evil at its best.
The media is causing the protests. My blood pressure rises every time I see a news story on this. The angle is always about protests for gun control. The biased views of the media are loud and clear. They are trying to brainwash us.
More on point and a broader question, what do you guys think about Trump endorsing a ban on bump stocks today? Good idea?
Trump playing 4D chess as usual. The ATF has already proposed a rule change and took 36,000 comments on it. Commenting period is closed, and only 13% of comments were for additional regulation.
It’s also been published that the language of the current laws defining automatic firearms cannot be interpreted to include bump stocks, and would require congress to amend the current law.
Steve Murphy…Iowaboy….
What you have just offered is the epitome of the truth and together make the best sense since these school shooting have started and the best sense of this entire thread. Any mass shooting for that matter. The media won’t use any of this because it won’t make them money and is too close to the real truth. Many parents won’t agree to a lot of this because in many cases the parents are sicker than the kids.
My hat is off to both of you. Thank you for sharing what no one else dare say.
I had typed out many of the points from a discussion I had with my father yesterday. Then deleted it. When I read back over it, I couldn’t believe how much it made all of us look and sound like spoiled little brats. He’s 85, literally pulled a sled of coal to school, dropped out of school at 8th grade to get a job, went in the airforce, came back 4 years later to his family and made his way.
I spent 20 years of my life hating him for the beatings and just being such a hard azz. I was that nightmare kid with no fear – except for the fear of DAD. Spent that last 30+ years thanking him for teaching me how to be a man.
Fascinating to listen to him and understand what he sees. We have bigger problems coming by allowing society to continue this path of each generation being more and more out of touch with core values. We need both a short term immediate solution to derail this path and a long term solution to get us back to where we need to be.
Thanks to the moderators for letting this thread stay open!
Steve Murphy and Iowa Boy,
Thanks for taking the time to write those posts!
I still remember to this day on my grandma’s farm shooting sparrows with old bb and pellet guns. If we ever got anywhere near a swallow, well you didn’t go near a swallow again. We were never abused, but learned right from wrong and probably the biggest thing we learned was a sense of reality. Kids now need more responsibility. My kids have learned how to run tools, drive dirt bikes, four wheelers, plows, tractors, mowers, weed whips, chainsaws, outboards, how to fix stuff when it brakes, how to read, study, do math, etc and we are no miraculous parent’s, it just comes down to perspective. The perspective of many in this country is to make kids lives so dam safe and sterile that they never get hurt, but they know nothing and learn nothing tangible, other than about their feelings vs how it feels to hit their thumb with a hammer and that actions have consequences, both good and bad. And they have no clue it wasn’t the hammer that hurt them, but poor choices and lack of knowledge. I truly think we have two generations tops before it’s total Katie bar the door.
When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn’t get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don’t want to hear “they won’t let me correct my kids”. You don’t have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.
But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer. Just my opinion,Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold�s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather�s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Thanks for that Steve. I didn’t know that all of these people were medicated. I think this is a huge factor in these incidents.
The media would never cover that angle because guess who pays their bills?
I couldn’t believe how much it made all of us look and sound like spoiled little brats. He’s 85, literally pulled a sled of coal to school, dropped out of school at 8th grade to get a job, went in the airforce, came back 4 years later to his family and made his way.
I spent 20 years of my life hating him for the beatings and just being such a hard azz. I was that nightmare kid with no fear – except for the fear of DAD. Spent that last 30+ years thanking him for teaching me how to be a man.
Couldn’t agree more!
My dad’s 84.
His mom and brother’s grew up in nw Minn. They had more problems on the walk to and home from school than the type of stock on a firearm. One brother almost froze to death in a tree after a pack of wolves wouldn’t let him come down one winter. They were harassed constantly by native Americans to and from school.
My mom is 78 and has all kinds of stories. Her brother rode to school in the trunk of the teachers car and sometimes got forgotten about in the trunk.
I think we as a society lack any gratitude for anything. What is easily acquired, is lightly esteemed.
My grandpa grew up on a farm in Northern MN. His life paralleled a lot with what you guys are saying about your upbringings. He went to a one room farmhouse school and took a horse and buggy into town. He told me stories about being embarrassed to go to the town dances because all they had as kids to wear were their work overalls and they were filthy. When his sister Hazel woke up one morning before the others and proceeded to start the fire in the kitchen, and mistakenly grabbed the canister of kerosene in the dark to ignite it, it was my grandpa who ran 5 miles in the snow to fetch the town doctor. She spent over a year in the hospital recovering from her injuries. My grandpa moved to the cities in the 50’s and along with his brother opened a body repair shop which he operated in Chaska for the better part of 30 years until he retired in 1996. My grandpas hands could crush a man without a thought they were so mammoth in size and strength. You know what my grandpa always said to me when I was growing up? “Go to school boy. You go to school and you stay in school so you don’t have to break your back like me.”
My point here is that with all of the comments about how our society is deteriorating away because we have lost touch with the old ways and old lessons, there is another narrative in all of that and that is that each generation has always strived to make life better and easier for the next. This, along with the advances in technology making life “easier” for people has led us to where we are today. I agree that there are a lot of valuable lessons to be learned from the upbringing he went through. I think those lessons can be bestowed upon kids today too without as many of the hardships. It may be that with how quickly the world changes today that it is more difficult for parents to keep pace and adapt to teaching their kids in the environment they exist in. IDK. Not taking any sides here just thinking out loud
The “E.A.S.Y.” Life
Entertained
Appeased
Slothful
Youth
society has changed and its going to take years to correct it,if we can,it starts with your child or grandchild,its never to late to teach or we are doomed to repeat history.
Society is always changing. What time period should we go back to? When we could beat our wives? Have slaves? Maybe as far back as when we fell under Monarchy? Very little crime happened then? Maybe we need full dictatorship?
It’s not that society has changed. This country, believe it or not, is 1000x better off then what it was even 50 years ago. Life expectancy is way up, unemployment is doing very well, poverty is down, and crime, for the most part has improved. Of all the positives the society has changed over the years, rights to all men and women, breaking the race barriers, offering freedoms to all, improving the wealth of our citizens…but yet a few mass shootings and you blame current SOCIETY? LOL
I am not a millennial but the we are doing many great things in our nation right now. You get caught up in only the negatives which seem to pour out from the local and national news.
The problem is and always will be MENTAL HEALTH! Not society. Not guns. Not Race. Some or little religion (Catholics did this as well way back in the day). MENTAL HEALTH!
some stats since the 50’s
https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low
But yeah, it’s the way we are raising our kids LOL… it appears that who ever was raising kids in the 50’s and 60’s really screwed up, look what those “kids” did during the 70’s-90’s!
I don’t pine for the old days, but kids need something more than the sterile lives they lead. Look at the organic gardening that the crazy younger generation is getting into and the amount of new hunters hunting cause they want to harvest their own food. I applaud that move big time! This new, seemingly odd group is a cool deal imo. I never liked even the thought of gardening growing up. My grandparents gardened and I didn’t pay much attention to it. Now, looking back what I’d give to be peeping through a different lens back in my ignorant youth. I love gardening now, along with food plots. A nephew learned how to drive a tractor and thanked me for it out of the blue once and I walked away a little teared up when he told me he appreciated someone taking the time to show him how to drive a tractor and run a brush hog. We as adults need to help kids and give kids more opportunities and responsibility. One thing I’ve learned taking kids out on the youth waterfowl day is, you’d be surprised how their chest and attitude grows with self esteem and worth when they are given opportunities with adult males. Adolescent teen males really desire and shine with time with the adult males of the pack. This is lost on helicopter soccer moms. Reading history on the world wars, the Japanese take on our armed citizens, the amount of credit given to the farm kids who knew how to hunt, etc, gives me hope at how many good young people I’ve met and know whom we hunt with and meet. I am deeply concerned about the direction our schools, youth and inner-cities are heading. How that gets curbed or addressed I have no clue.
Reading history on the world wars, the Japanese take on our armed citizens, the amount of credit given to the farm kids who knew how to hunt, etc, gives me hope at how many good young people I’ve met and know whom we hunt with and meet. I am deeply concerned about the direction our schools, youth and inner-cities are heading. How that gets curbed or addressed I have no clue.
Sounds like a poverty issue. This is what I mean when I say our society is in decay.
If a doctor prescribed your child an anti-depressant, what would you do as a parent? (Not directed at you basseyes) Do you know what that drug does to their body and mind?
I think it’s blatantly obvious. All of the shooters mentioned above by Steve were medicated. For a few reasons, 1 their parents may not have been a big enough positive influence on their life, 2 because when a doc says you need it, we blindly listen.
Then look at the media coverage. This never comes up because the big pharma sponsors won’t allow it.
it appears that who ever was raising kids in the 50’s and 60’s really screwed up, look what those “kids” did during the 70’s-90’s!
I think you have your timing is a bit off…….
My Dad raised me in the 50’s and 60’s……….These parents were the WW2 generation (my dad is a WW2 vet) and we were raised the right way IMO…..
From what I see the mass school killings pretty much started in 1999 on up….
My oldest graduated in 1996 so it would be on my generation for some…..The kid who did this is the age where he could be my grandson……
My dad and his generation lived thru a major depression and won a world war with guts and honor….
I see no reason to blame them for any of this mess.
The media….what a poor excuse for a job.
Instead of challenging the second amendment maybe the challenge should be towards requiring every form of media in the this country today to report only provable, verifiable facts. Not statistics, not hearsay, not what ifs, not maybes, not possiblys….facts.
And then round up all of the lobbyists and take them for a boat ride in the Bering sea….wearing lead shoes and jackets.
The media….what a poor excuse for a job.
Instead of challenging the second amendment maybe the challenge should be towards requiring every form of media in the this country today to report only provable, verifiable facts. Not statistics, not hearsay, not what ifs, not maybes, not possiblys….facts.
Are you freaking crazy???? Could you imagine the insanity that would be out wondering around in public????? CNN & MSNBC would go under in 24hours and all the drama queens that thrive on the hate & repetitive speculation would loose their flipp’n minds
I applaud and agree with crappies post about, “making things better/easier” each generation. I think one area that seems to have been “made easier” is how they are “settling” down kids who may have some hyper tension (ADHD, ADD, ABC, LMNOP) and any other acronym I missed, with a drug. I believe the drugs are part of the mental health issue that needs to be addressed. Wonder what lobby group spends more in DC…. the Gun manufacturers or the Drug manufacturers? I think in that scenario, the kids will continue to lose and those in power will continue to reap the rewards from the lobbyist.
Another way to the same result is to make a law that requires the media to spend the same amount of air time and commercial time during the same time of day or page placement reporting the retraction. Now they just ignore it or use a one sentence retraction buried in the rest of the BS. Can you imagine the advertisers reaction.
This won’t solve the problem but it would surely help.
www.http://dominatesafety.com
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tom Sawvell wrote:</div>
The media….what a poor excuse for a job.Instead of challenging the second amendment maybe the challenge should be towards requiring every form of media in the this country today to report only provable, verifiable facts. Not statistics, not hearsay, not what ifs, not maybes, not possiblys….facts.
Are you freaking crazy???? Could you imagine the insanity that would be out wondering around in public????? CNN & MSNBC would go under in 24hours and all the drama queens that thrive on the hate & repetitive speculation would loose their flipp’n minds
This was very close to happening. Jesse Ventura’s case against Chris Kyle was for defamation and was going to set a precedence for making people liable for what they say and write about other people. Specifically the media. Jesse won his case but the 7 major media outlets sought to overturn the case to make sure they could write anything they want and not face any consequences. As long as the write a correction days or weeks or months later they can’t be sought for defamation. They got it overturned so they can continue saying pretty much anything they want.
No question the media has too much influence and is biased. They certainly wont bring up a case against themselves. I wonder how that issue will work itself out in the future?
Start by guarding our children with armed guards.The guns are out there so more laws are little help.Iwill say that anyone who makes threats to shoot anyone on social media ects.should loose their weapons and right to buy.Guard our children while we debate everything else!
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bob clowncolor wrote:</div>
it appears that who ever was raising kids in the 50’s and 60’s really screwed up, look what those “kids” did during the 70’s-90’s!I think you have your timing is a bit off…….
My Dad raised me in the 50’s and 60’s……….These parents were the WW2 generation (my dad is a WW2 vet) and we were raised the right way IMO…..
From what I see the mass school killings pretty much started in 1999 on up….
My oldest graduated in 1996 so it would be on my generation for some…..The kid who did this is the age where he could be my grandson……
My dad and his generation lived thru a major depression and won a world war with guts and honor….
I see no reason to blame them for any of this mess.
Sorry, timing is factual. Waaaay more homicides in the 70’s – 90’s.
I wasn’t blaming the greatest generation for mass shootings, I clearly blamed mental health. I was referring to how the society has changed for the better in regards to the 50’s.
One things for sure, it’s perplexing.
There’s poor kids, from poor families that are wonderful people.
There’s rich kids, with every opportunity, who are arse hat’s.
Blanket statements, ignore we are all individuals. One thing the government can never really legalize is morality. One thing that can only somewhat be controlled after the fact is consequences for actions. Problem with that is it’s reactive vs proactive. If the persons end game is suicide by some means, consequences are a mute point. We all want a quick fix for a problem that can’t really be solved by law’s without impacting freedoms. When we start eroding freedoms, the erosion will quickly escalate from a free society, to a controlled one. And who decides what is palatable? Speech, religion, wages, etc go out the window for what a few decide as the correct thought process. And the ones holding the weapons, be it swords, clubs or firearms are the ones who make the decisions.
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