How Can We Keep Our Schools Safe?

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
1. Reevaluate how the background checks system works to purchase firearms, especially towards males under the age of 21. It’s not a secret that young, troubled males are the most likely to take lives this way. If we “profile” young males on auto insurance with high rates, can’t we follow the trend and ramp up background checks or waiting periods for young males?

I agree with much of what you wrote and see where you’re trying to go, but this point about “enhancing” background checks has been mentioned several times, so I think some are not understanding what the background check actually looks for.

The point I want to make is a background check can only reveal what gets recorded and what the law requires. Right now, there are no laws requiring the collection background data that would allow the check to reveal things like terroristic threats, erratic behavior, calls to the police reporting suspicions of mental illness, etc.

AND there’s no law that bans a potential gun buyer from being able to purchase a firearme due to the behaviors above.

Bottom line is that the background check can’t find information that is not there in the first place and it cannot be used to block a purchase if there is no law saying that must be done.

No amount of “enhanced” background checks would have blocked the FL shooter from getting a gun because there is no comprehensive reporting of “threat/ high-risk beahvior”.

Of course, you can see the issue here. Government profiling being used to block someone from doing something based on “reports”, suspicion, innuendo, etc… This gets us on to slippery Constitutional ground quickly.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
5. Stop spewing stupid ideas about arming teachers. That’s ridiculous and won’t (nor should it ever) happen. Most of the people in here thinking that’s a great idea would get trampled by a few dozen unarmed teens “walking” to lunch on the average day. What do you think would happen in the chaotic event of a shooting with hundreds of people sprinting towards exits in crowded hallways, screaming, alarms sounding, etc.?

I would think the epic failure of the on-scene sheriff’s deputy in Florida who sat outside with his pistol in his hand while the killer raged inside would show the total fallacy if this idea. There already WAS a highly trained person with a gun on the scene and look what happened!

As one military vet put it, nobody knows anything about how they’d perform in a firefight until they’ve BEEN in a firefight. There is absolutely no way teachers could be trained to perform to the level that would be required to be effective.

Grouse

Grouse

Great point about the background checks. The checks are only as good as the data entered. I’m not sure how that process would work with getting data warehoused that gun dealers, law enforcement, mental health professionals, and potentially schools could all have access to what they needed (and only what they need) for a collaborative effort.

I wouldn’t be so sure Mud, Anthony Bordain spent a day at Ted Nugents house in Texas and I watched him fire a 50 caliber machine gun on His property, I don’t remember what they were shooting at but Bordain sure got a rush out of it. You might question if I thought it was fully automatic and yes, you pulled the trigger, held it back and it fired consistant rounds, it was fully automatic, I remember the show a few years ago. I don’t remember where I seen the $1,500 price but that information looked legit too, plus the background check was in the same information as the $1,500 price, I don’t remember if it was what Anthony Bordain was saying while he commented on the visit or information I seen in another place.
Seen another tv program last year about Nevada I think where you could go to this ranch business, put your money down and the owner instructor would let you fire a fully automatic M-16, this time I do remember they were shooting at watermelons. I think it was $200 for a full clip of rounds, don’t remember how many rounds but when that was done it was another $200 for another clip of rounds, So fully automatic assault rifles are obtainable in some states.

Mudshark wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mossydan wrote:</div>
In Texas its legal to own a 50 caliber machine gun, but you have to go through regulations there too if you want one, like paying $1,500 for the permit and a background check.

Sorry mossy that is incorrect…..all fully automatic weapons are regulated by the firearms act of 1934….. you could own a full auto buy paying for a Class 3 special tax,$200, for every gun. That included a FBI background check,fingerprints and an OK by a local official……I almost tried to get one in 1982 to buy a WW2 .45 Thompson for an investment …..They stopped that in 1986 I think….

Anything registered as a machine gun before the law went into effect was grandfathered in. Some things were registered as a machine gun that were basically accessories to make a machine gun and not a complete firearm

It is still just a $200 tax stamp for a short barreled shotgun/rifle, silencer, or machine gun but since 1986 the price on machine guns has skyrocketed.

I don’t know why these psychos do what they do or why they choose AR 15’s. I own a couple AR’s one 223 and one 308 and except for hunting and sighting them in, they just sit in the gun safe

mossydan wrote:

So fully automatic assault rifles are obtainable in some states.

Yes Mossy….Lots of people own them legally….But it a Federal permit that allows it…..it doesn’t matter what state you’re in…..Here’s a link…

NFA Class III

Jeremy wrote:

It is still just a $200 tax stamp for a short barreled shotgun/rifle, silencer, or machine gun but since 1986 the price on machine guns has skyrocketed.

That’s no bull bud……..I was looking at buying a 1943 model M1A1 Thompson in 1982 for $1000…….It’s worth about $15,000 to $25,000 based on condition now…

I didn’t know It was legal federally in all states, I thought it was a state regulation that allowed it, I wasn’t informed enough. Everybody knows that something has to be done so (not) everyone can just walk into a gunstore and by what assault weapon they want and when they want, especially to do harm to someone. Toms suggestion of that a permit would have to be attained just like a pistol is a very good suggestion to start the ball rolling, whats more powerful a semi automatic pistol or a semi automatic assault rifle with a full clip or two taped together. Again i’m not anti gun because I hunt myself and used to shoot trap but I do think we should be really cautious on the firepower they have, and limit that in immediate over the counter sales to certain individuals, its going to save someones life when we do.

There is this new training called A.L.I.C.E training that the teachers and students at my school are going through. It’s purpose is to educate us on what to do if there is a shooter in the building. My point is that there are other ways of of fixing this problem then taking away our guns, I’m not saying that background information with the purchase of a firearm is wrong, but what I am saying is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. We need to look at this problem from different angles to come up with a solution.

mossydan wrote:

I didn’t know It was legal federally in all states, I thought it was a state regulation that allowed it, I wasn’t informed enough. Everybody knows that something has to be done so (not) everyone can just walk into a gunstore and by what assault weapon they want and when they want, especially to do harm to someone. Toms suggestion of that a permit would have to be attained just like a pistol is a very good suggestion to start the ball rolling, whats more powerful a semi automatic pistol or a semi automatic assault rifle with a full clip or two taped together. Again i’m not anti gun because I hunt myself and used to shoot trap but I do think we should be really cautious on the firepower they have, and limit that in immediate over the counter sales to certain individuals, its going to save someones life when we do.

There are state restrictions on NFA items(silencers/machine guns/SBR/SBS) and some states have restrictions on “assault rifles”

Let’s just say a long gun is my last choice if someone breaks into my house as a rifle is a bad choice in close quarters

How many years after they theoretically make semi auto rifles illegal to own would the problem be fixed? If murder is currently illegal does that not cover the “law” side of the issue?

The murder rate in many cities is well beyond any single school shooting. There are tons of children dying on the streets from handgun wounds but everyone cries that taking long guns is the fix.

I just don’t understand the logic… I feel like it’s an argument based on current events with no long term expectations, which leads me to believe it’s a slippery slope…..

This is worth a watch.

Gov Dayton is expected to give a speak today addressing school safety here in MN. I think it’s going to include funds for bullet proof glass and steel doors but I’m not sure about the rest of it.

I agree with beefing up school security, but obviously this is only one small step and more needs to be done. I would like to see funds dedicated to mental health and maybe some type of screening process to find these mentally ill and unstable kids before they act.

Anyone know more about Dayton’s plan?

I’m sure it involves throwing lots of tax payer money at it.

gizmoguy wrote:

I’m sure it involves throwing lots of tax payer money at it.

I heard that he was proposing something last night on the news and 100 Million comes to mind now.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gizmoguy wrote:</div>
I’m sure it involves throwing lots of tax payer money at it.

I heard that he was proposing something last night on the news and 100 Million comes to mind now.

$21M is the number being publicized this morning. I also heard a snippet on the radio that a portion of that would not be “new money” but rather an authorization for the schools to use an existing fund that’s ear-marked for long-term infrastructure improvements to schools. But I was just climbing back into the truck after dropping my kids off when that was on, so don’t quote me on it.

A 17-year-old male student shot two other students at Great Mills High School in Maryland on Tuesday morning before a school resource officer engaged him and stopped the threat, according to St. Mary’s County Sheriff Tim Cameron.

The incident began in a school hallway at 7:55 a.m., just before classes started. Authorities say Austin Wyatt Rollins, armed with a handgun, shot a female and a male student. The shooter had a prior relationship with the female student, Cameron said.

School resource officer Blaine Gaskill responded to the scene in less than a minute, the sheriff said. Gaskill fired a round at the shooter, and the shooter fired a round simultaneously, Cameron said.

Rollins was later pronounced dead. Gaskill was unharmed. The 16-year-old female student is in critical condition with life-threatening injuries, and the 14-year-old male student who was shot is in stable condition.

This is the 17th school shooting in the US since Jan 1.

It’s a good thing they’re pushing to ban the AR-15 so these can be prevented.

Also a good thing this school had an officer who didn’t stay in the parking lot when he heard the gunshots.

This one will not get nearly the coverage or reaction of the “mass” shootings… it doesn’t fit the narrative, just like Vegas did not. They will keep putting David Hogg in front of the CNN cameras.

big_g wrote:

This one will not get nearly the coverage or reaction of the “mass” shootings… it doesn’t fit the narrative, just like Vegas did not. They will keep putting David Hogg in front of the CNN cameras.

He’s still alive and not crazy enough to put a final round thru his own head. That would have ended his 15 minutes of fame.

big_g wrote:

This one will not get nearly the coverage or reaction of the “mass” shootings… it doesn’t fit the narrative, just like Vegas did not. They will keep putting David Hogg in front of the CNN cameras.

Yup. I find it amazing that insignificant little things like a dozen mn high school students protesting assault rifles at the state capital makes the local news. These kids are playing into the narrative and the media will keep at it.

biggill wrote:

It’s a good thing they’re pushing to ban the AR-15 so these can be prevented.

I disagree. Unless this is sarcasm?

I just sent another check to the NRA. Dayton is a goof. You want to stop kids from doing horrible stuff for fame, stop showing their pics and giving their names on TV. Start disciplining the kids again. These kids need their arses kicked to prepare them for the real boot they’ll find in the real world. Too many tit babies.

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There have NOT been 17 school shootings since Jan 1st. Stop the BS and stop watching fake news. Please name the 17 shootings

I quickly did a google search and found the 17 shootings – you can do the same.

But, your missing the point of the article I posted. The armed security guard was on the scene in less than one minute and ended the threat. As others have stated before, beef up security in the schools, don’t let them be soft targets. I am in favor of this as one prong, of a multiple prong approach.

Also agree that kids need more discipline at home and strong father figure but we have to start protecting the asset (the children) until we can make some society changes (and better hope to God we can).

Deleted wrote:

You want to stop kids from doing horrible stuff for fame, stop showing their pics and giving their names on TV.

I gotta say, I have followed the news on FL and have no idea who the shooter was or what he looks like. Seems like the media did a better job less frequently stating his identity on this one, or my mind is getting worse.

Here is the list of “Shootings” 10 of them are not what you think. BS propaganda from the left. Fake news everywhere. Harden the Schools. Its that simple.

Firearm attacks during school hours: 7 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 5)

22 January: Italy High School, Italy, Texas – A 16-year-old student opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun in the school cafeteria, wounding another student.

22 January: NET Charter High School, Gentilly, Louisiana – An unknown person fired shots at students from a vehicle in the school parking lot. One person was injured (though not by gunfire).

23 January: Marshall County High School, Benton, Kentucky – A 15-year-old student opened fire with a handgun on school grounds, killing two and injuring 18.

25 January: Murphy High School, Mobile, Alabama – A student fired a handgun into the air during a fight with another student. No injuries were reported.

26 January: Dearborn High School, Dearborn, Michigan – Shots were fired during a fight in the school parking lot. No injuries were reported.

31 January: Lincoln High School, Philadelphia – A fight during a basketball game resulted in the shooting death of a 32-year-old man outside the school.

14 February: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Florida – A 19-year-old former student opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle, killing 17 and injuring 14.

Firearm attacks NOT occurring during school hours: 2 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 2)

20 January: Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, North Carolina – A 21-year-old was shot and killed during a fight at a party on school grounds.

5 February: – Oxon Hill High School, Oxon Hill, Maryland – A student was shot and injured in the school parking lot during an attempted robbery.

Shots fired during school hours, unknown reason: 2 (no injuries)

10 January: California State University, San Bernardino, California – Bullets were fired through a window, with no suspects or motive identified.

8 February: Metropolitan High School, New York, NY – A student fired a gun into the floor of a classroom.

Unintentional gunfire during school hours: 3 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 1)

10 January: Grayson College, Denison, Texas – A student fired a weapon belonging to an adviser, believing it wasn’t loaded. No injuries were reported.

1 February: Salvador B. Castro Middle School, Los Angeles – A semi-automatic handgun brought to school by a 12-year-old student accidentally went off. Four students were injured.

5 February: Harmony Learning Center, Maplewood, Minnesota – A third-grader pressed the trigger of a law enforcement officer’s handgun. The weapon went off but no one was injured.

Suicide attempts during school hours: 1 (resulting in death)

10 January: Coronado Elementary School, Sierra Vista, Arizona – A middle school student shot himself in the bathroom of the school and was pronounced dead at the scene.

Stray bullets hitting school buildings during school hours: 1 (no injuries)

4 January: New Start High School, near Seattle – Bullets fired by an unidentified shooter entered an administrative office. No injuries were reported.

Stray bullets hitting school buildings NOT occurring during school hours: 1 (no injuries)

15 January: Wiley College, Marshall, Texas – Gunshots fired from a vehicle in the parking lot of a college dorm entered through a window, but did not injure residents.

DTW – I agree with you. But it doesn’t change the fact there was another shooting. We could go back to 2017 and pull up all the incidents but what would that really change or prove?

Bottom line we need to make some changes. You can be part of the solution or stick your head in the sand, your choice.

mossydan wrote:

semi automatic assault rifle with a full clip or two taped together.

The only time I tape my chip clips back together is when the plastic gets worn out and starts to break…I suppose if they banned the high capacity clips at Ikea, I would be forced to buy standard capacity chip clips that are most likely of a higher quality, thus no need for taping them together…You may be on to something.

Edit: electrical tape is my tape of choice. It’s black, so it’s tactical and allows me to secure my chips faster. I just need to avoid the urge to tape my ice rods with it…

404 ERROR wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mossydan wrote:</div>
semi automatic assault rifle with a full clip or two taped together.

The only time I tape my chip clips back together is when the plastic gets worn out and starts to break…I suppose if they banned the high capacity clips at Ikea, I would be forced to buy standard capacity chip clips that are most likely of a higher quality, thus no need for taping them together…You may be on to something.

If they ban clips, what would my daughter put in her hair????

If people want to have a legitimate conversation about guns, at least familiarize yourself with the terminology so we can take you seriously….

DTW wrote:

Here is the list of “Shootings” 10 of them are not what you think. BS propaganda from the left. Fake news everywhere. Harden the Schools. Its that simple.

Firearm attacks during school hours: 7 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 5)

22 January: Italy High School, Italy, Texas – A 16-year-old student opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun in the school cafeteria, wounding another student.

22 January: NET Charter High School, Gentilly, Louisiana – An unknown person fired shots at students from a vehicle in the school parking lot. One person was injured (though not by gunfire).

23 January: Marshall County High School, Benton, Kentucky – A 15-year-old student opened fire with a handgun on school grounds, killing two and injuring 18.

25 January: Murphy High School, Mobile, Alabama – A student fired a handgun into the air during a fight with another student. No injuries were reported.

26 January: Dearborn High School, Dearborn, Michigan – Shots were fired during a fight in the school parking lot. No injuries were reported.

31 January: Lincoln High School, Philadelphia – A fight during a basketball game resulted in the shooting death of a 32-year-old man outside the school.

14 February: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Florida – A 19-year-old former student opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle, killing 17 and injuring 14.

Firearm attacks NOT occurring during school hours: 2 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 2)

20 January: Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, North Carolina – A 21-year-old was shot and killed during a fight at a party on school grounds.

5 February: – Oxon Hill High School, Oxon Hill, Maryland – A student was shot and injured in the school parking lot during an attempted robbery.

Shots fired during school hours, unknown reason: 2 (no injuries)

10 January: California State University, San Bernardino, California – Bullets were fired through a window, with no suspects or motive identified.

8 February: Metropolitan High School, New York, NY – A student fired a gun into the floor of a classroom.

Unintentional gunfire during school hours: 3 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 1)

10 January: Grayson College, Denison, Texas – A student fired a weapon belonging to an adviser, believing it wasn’t loaded. No injuries were reported.

1 February: Salvador B. Castro Middle School, Los Angeles – A semi-automatic handgun brought to school by a 12-year-old student accidentally went off. Four students were injured.

5 February: Harmony Learning Center, Maplewood, Minnesota – A third-grader pressed the trigger of a law enforcement officer’s handgun. The weapon went off but no one was injured.

Suicide attempts during school hours: 1 (resulting in death)

10 January: Coronado Elementary School, Sierra Vista, Arizona – A middle school student shot himself in the bathroom of the school and was pronounced dead at the scene.

Stray bullets hitting school buildings during school hours: 1 (no injuries)

4 January: New Start High School, near Seattle – Bullets fired by an unidentified shooter entered an administrative office. No injuries were reported.

Stray bullets hitting school buildings NOT occurring during school hours: 1 (no injuries)

15 January: Wiley College, Marshall, Texas – Gunshots fired from a vehicle in the parking lot of a college dorm entered through a window, but did not injure residents.

Are people really more caught up in arguing about the media, propaganda, etc than what our nation’s kids are being subjected to?

I used YOUR numbers, and YOU as a source (unless of course you’re just as guilty as the supposed corrupt media you’re accusing of spewing false information). I left out all acts that occurred outside of the school day or outside of the school itself.

-Wounded during the school day by gunfire = 34 students
-Killed during the school day by gunfire = 20 students

The number of incidents is irrelevant. Those 20 students who went to school were killed by a firearm. Those 34 students were wounded by a firearm at school. We aren’t even through 3 months of the calendar year.

Do I have the preventative answers? No.
Do I think weapons should be banned? No.
Do I consider myself a liberal? No.
Do I think that people who would rather argue about numbers of incidents, the media bias, etc. than looking at children’s lives being lost WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL are very intelligent? No.

lindyrig79 wrote:

DTW – I agree with you. But it doesn’t change the fact there was another shooting. We could go back to 2017 and pull up all the incidents but what would that really change or prove?

Bottom line we need to make some changes. You can be part of the solution or stick your head in the sand, your choice.

Exactly. Finally, someone else who sees that arguing semantics and downplaying lives lost over politics isn’t fixing anything. By getting caught in the arguments, people are only feeding the machine that media and our elected representatives have become. A topic like this can surely separate out those capable of the higher-level thinking from those who are stuck in the reactive, argumentative stages of thought.