How Can We Keep Our Schools Safe?

Like all of you, I am just sick about the school shooting yesterday. I get a lump in my throat watching the news.

I do not want this to turn into a left vs. right argument. I have little kids, and am interesting in having a discussion about solutions. Some news came out today that the FBI had received a phone tip that identified this shooter by name, concerns about his gun access, and concerns about his mental health – including the possibility of a mass shooting. The FBI apparently did very little or nothing. There is an investigation underway now.

The question is why did the FBI not take action? Are they too overloaded? Apparently this individual had been previously expelled from this school. The whole “see something, say something” action did take place when the call to the FBI was made. This situation could not have been more spelled out for law enforcement to take preventative action, yet they did not.

So here is my thought towards a potential solution. Why don’t we create a special division of the FBI – call it “School-Land Security” or whatever. All this division does is focus on fielding tips from schools, local law enforcement, anybody. They would only focus on prevention efforts and getting inside the minds of these deranged people. They would have access to their complete digital footprint and anything else the FBI can do. Nothing we do will be a 100% cure, but it would seem to me that creating a special division for our school safety would be a good start. Curious about your opinion

Sadly these threads end up going nowhere… I’d love to have a serious conservation about it, but eventually the “Nobody is taking my guns away!” folks chime in and the thread gets locked/deleted…

i’m all for the 2nd amendment (own as many 6 shot revolver handguns or single shot rifles you want) but WTF is the purpose of the AR-15 style weapons with large capacity magazines other than to kill alot of people quickly…so senseless…ultimately it’s upto the voters on who they elect to make any changes…

Armed teachers! Definitely not all, as there are some I would not trust with a NERF gun. Seriously!

Hard security. Let teachers teach and security protect. There’s no stopping this mess our society has created so we may as well try to protect against it.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Sadly these threads end up going nowhere… I’d love to have a serious conservation about it, but eventually the fools chime in and the thread gets locked/deleted…

Agreed. I give one nugget as well. It is a fact that these people study past incidents in deeep deep detail. They look at past incidents as failures and try to succeed where others failed. The level of glorification that the media goes to is certainly encouraging others to do these types of things. Why else to we keep seeing this sort of escalation?

I refuse to read about or watch these things on the news.

Ill be the first fool to chime in. The FBI is too busy defending itself against the president to do their jobs. its a 24/7 job these days just trying to pick yourself out of the mud that comes daily from the tweet monster.

RIP Florida students.

mark-bruzek wrote:

Armed teachers! Definitely not all, as there are some I would not trust with a NERF gun. Seriously!

I’m all for arming teachers. Arm them with more than one guidance counselor per 300-400 students. Arm them with more than one social worker per 300-400 students. Arm schools with mental health professionals (most rural schools bring-in mental health counselors on an “as-needed” basis or have someone who may be part time). Arm teachers with liaison officers in the buildings (many do not have them). I am generally a moderately conservative person who owns many guns and have taught in multiple schools in the past. Arming teachers with firearms is not a solution.

I taught in a district that eliminated the liaison position, had 1 guidance counselor, and 1 social worker for an enrollment of ~900 kids. At any one time there were 12-15 kids of the ~100 I taught who had defined mental illnesses (with many more undiagnosed). There were probably 30% who were living in poverty. About 65% of students came from split families where parents rarely got along. Drugs are available to almost anyone at any age OUTSIDE of schools. Social media is a cloak for “bullying.” I can count on one hand the number of times physical “bullying” was observed in 5+ years. It was probably in the thousands for the number of times students bullied and belittled other kids through their parent-purchased devices outside of the school hours.

This BS with “not seeing the signs” or “why aren’t troubled kids expelled” is so far from the reality that is public education. A student with violent tendancies, no home life, chemical violations, etc. is sadly not that rare. Those same students have the right to a public education by law. This is not a school issue. It is a parenting and societal issue. Most teachers have a student for 40-60 minutes total per day. Parents raise those kids from birth-adulthood. A lot of good done in schools is “undone” within minutes of children going home. The crappy parents are not necessarily defined by economics either. There are many well-off families with little to no parenting skills who assume putting meals on the table, paying bills, and being able to buy their kids stuff is “parenting”.

biggill wrote:

The level of glorification that the media goes to is certainly encouraging others to do these types of things.

Agree, this is the first step that need to take place. No name, no face, no glory for the murderers.

Amazing and disheartening that the media still glorifies Charles Manson. He should have been a complete unknown 30 years ago.

-J.

Guns are just the easiest tool for their cause, removing all the guns will not stop the violence. You need to keep digging to get to the root cause and then execute a plan to correct it.

Until we get an across-the-country ability to confine and treat people suffering from severe mental illness, even when they can’t or don’t consent, nothing will change.

It is bad enough that the FBI appears to have failed to act on the warning received, but even if they HAD acted, as things are now it is highly unlikely they could have done anything.

In case after case these mass-killers are KNOWN to be severely mentally ill before the shooting, but unless they actually harm someone, there is no means in this country to compel them into treatment. Obviously, the problem with this is that mentally ill people often don’t understand that they even are ill. So they will almost never consent to treatment. Then we have to sit and wait for them to do something like shoot up a school.

Sandy Hook, Aurora, Virginia Tech, in fact almost all of these mass shootings were done by an individual that was severely mentally ill AND this was well known to others. We need to get to a place where law enforcement and mental health professionals can be proactive and get the person the treatment they need for their own good and the good of others.

Armed security, armed teachers, don’t prevent anything. Once there is a shooter in a school, all you can do is try to minimize casualties. PREVENTING the situation from happening in the first place is the only “win” in this situation and only mental health treatment will do this with any impact.

Grouse

If you are looking to politicians for blame or resolution you have lost already.
This is a new generation, a new way of thinking that has no regard for anyone but their own feelings. Blaming POTUS or the previous POTUS is beyond blind politics.
This kid was sick, anyone who takes an innocent life is sick. We need to work on that for starters.

Why isn’t this being talked about more?

Grandmother Foils Alleged Washington State School Shooting Plot?

I’m all for arming school teachers that want to carry.
Training (and I’m talking in school training) and the weapon MUST be on their person at all times. This would IMHO lower school shootings (and attempts) by at least 1/3 if not more.

Shootings at gun ranges? Police Depts? Just doesn’t happen.

I could throw the blame of “why” at a bunch of people but the fact is, it’s being carried out in the school Gun FREE zone.

IF banning the black AR’s or as the media call’s them Assault Rifles by 1/3, I would be for it. It won’t so I’m not.

/rant

I’m sorry that we failed the 14 year olds in FL.

The kid may have been sick ask yourself ,Canada ,Australia, Great Britain don,t have any more mentally ill per thousand than the US . What is the difference ? For one they don,t have the NRA pumping hundreds of millions of dollars to Gop or Democrats to push their agenda. Im a multiple gun owner and have friends who are licensed to own silenced weapons , they all have proper paperwork and went through a rigorous background checks . The problem with the NRA is they don’t represent my values ,one school shooting is one to many! Its time the NRA worked to create a system to prevent this from happening , but i doubt that will happen anytime soon !

Jon Jordan wrote:

Agree, this is the first step that need to take place. No name, no face, no glory for the murderers.

100% agree

onestout wrote:

Guns are just the easiest tool for their cause, removing all the guns will not stop the violence. You need to keep digging to get to the root cause and then execute a plan to correct it.

YEP^^^^

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Until we get an across-the-country ability to confine and treat people suffering from severe mental illness, even when they can’t or don’t consent, nothing will change.

It is bad enough that the FBI appears to have failed to act on the warning received, but even if they HAD acted, as things are now it is highly unlikely they could have done anything.

In case after case these mass-killers are KNOWN to be severely mentally ill before the shooting, but unless they actually harm someone, there is no means in this country to compel them into treatment. Obviously, the problem with this is that mentally ill people often don’t understand that they even are ill. So they will almost never consent to treatment. Then we have to sit and wait for them to do something like shoot up a school.

Sandy Hook, Aurora, Virginia Tech, in fact almost all of these mass shootings were done by an individual that was severely mentally ill AND this was well known to others. We need to get to a place where law enforcement and mental health professionals can be proactive and get the person the treatment they need for their own good and the good of others.

Armed security, armed teachers, don’t prevent anything. Once there is a shooter in a school, all you can do is try to minimize casualties. PREVENTING the situation from happening in the first place is the only “win” in this situation and only mental health treatment will do this with any impact.

Grouse

YEP^^^^

All starts back at home. Accountability, consequences, and caring for those that desperately need the help (mentally). Yes,I’m becoming that old bitter “old fart”. No denying it. Just watched an interview with a news team and a kid that stole cars. When \asked why, his response “Cuz its fun”. I was raised in a home where my dad din’t need to beat me many times. Got it once or twice pretty bad with the belt. From then on, it was the FEAR OF DAD. I knew if I took a risk, there was consequences. Those consequences resulted in not be able to sit down for a couple days. My dad was a dad. Taught me, punished me, and loved me. In today’s age we have evolved into raising pansy azz participation trophy kids that urine/moan to get their way or the cops and arrest you for abuse.
So I say start with the media. Have a freakin out cry that they cover the actual needs. Problem is as soon as you challenge them on the gun side of the argument, everyone goes to extreme differences.
I’ll be the first one to break the ice on this thread. Your not banning my rights any further as a lawful owner/operator of a firearm and accessories. When I present my self as THE THREAT, then I don’t deserve them. But if I want to load up my AR mags and go shoot prairie dogs or tin cans, that’s my hobby and you have no right to interfere. Just as I have no right to dictate to you.

biggill wrote:

The level of glorification that the media goes to is certainly encouraging others to do these types of things

That is the first thing that goes though my mind also. Maybe when our culture wakes up and says no to the sensationalism of this subject the occurrences will be lessened. Maybe do some profiling of recognized scenarios or fallow up on potential cases.
Something like what Seatle has done for domestc abuse cases where the accused is waiting in jail for court a task force goes to the residence to persuade to relinquish any fire arms or weapons to the police department until the domestic aduse matter has been settled one way or the other, by doing this possibly preventing a scenario of the acussed being released on bail and going back to do something worse.
This is just an example of foward and proactive thinking I think could help.
We can lock up the schools put stricter rules on guns but the place will change along with the method.

Besox wrote:

This is a new generation, a new way of thinking that has no regard for anyone but their own feelings.

Agreed! kids these days with all the social media, impersonal interaction through gaming, etc have no consequence. Many of these kids are social outcasts. They don’t interact with “friends” like WE all used to when we were their age. They online game and shoot each other, die, and respawn. There is no recourse. They don’t have the capabilities of thinking about the consequences for their actions because they do not interact with others as people once did.
I shoulder a lot of the blame on social media. Yes, the media in general is essentially glorifying these things and people can sit back and sickly enjoy every detail about how this latest tragedy succeeded and where it failed ie they got caught.
Each one is different than the last one too.
For starters, there needs to be better building security. Most newer schools are built to a higher standard and require approved access before being able to even getting into the front door, all other doors are locked during school hours. Once in, someone in the office could push one button and gates would drop from the ceiling confining someone in a small area and eliminating the ability to go beyond that at least temporarily.
These measures MUST be mandated in each and every school. But how? Who is going to pay?
The district my wife teaches in and our 3 kids go to is facing a referendum again and it will likely fail. Why? Because the residents are bitter about open enrollment. What they don’t understand is enrollment has actually been closed, but they will not have their minds swayed and will vote no regardless.
So they will be forced with having 1 elementary school that is VERY unsafe due to its layout and in less than 5 years they will have to setup shipping containers to teach out of because the community is growing at a 30% clip.
Lots of hard questions, no easy answers.

Besox wrote:

If you are looking to politicians for blame or resolution you have lost already.
This is a new generation, a new way of thinking that has no regard for anyone but their own feelings. Blaming POTUS or the previous POTUS is beyond blind politics.
This kid was sick, anyone who takes an innocent life is sick. We need to work on that for starters.

I agree with the new generation about feelings, if they feel like they have been wronged by the school, system, groups, person they go off the handle. No different that any activist, some do it peaceful, some do it with guns. It’s about holding people accountable.

I do believe the government has some accountability but it has to come down to parents being parents, if kids are stuck in the system, that is a risk factor I am not willing to take. Just my opinion…

ClownColor wrote:

Anyone buying a gun needs to have passed gun safety. I’m all in for mandatory background checks on ALL guns.

Sad that gun safety is only needed for a hunting license, but don’t we have background checks on all guns….when bought though a store?

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Why isn’t this being talked about more?

Because it doesn’t pay the bills. Or should I say make some corporate media execs rich. Plain and simple.

I’d hate to say it but these big media execs live on stuff like this.

The click bait is sickening. Headlines like this:
“Shooting Survivor Calls for Action: “We’re the children. You guys are the adults.””

We need to bring bullying back to our schools. I am only partially serious, but in the old days, this kid gets his butt whipped a few times and gets in line.

Keeping schools safe:

Bring prayer / God back into school

Ban video games that only play death by shooting

Make parents responsible for raising there children.

Stop confusing children about there gender, it was picked for them. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl.

This would be a good start. I’m sure there is plenty more but in the world we live in none of the above statements will ever happen. Even though as a kid all these things were in our schools and I never recall a school shooting. In fact I brought my shotgun to high school on the bus so I could go hunting with buddy’s after school. Think about that for a moment.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

but WTF is the purpose of the AR-15 style weapons with large capacity magazines other than to kill alot of people quickly

Joe….many thousands of people use semi-auto with handgrips and such (AR15) weapons for organized target shooting,varmint hunting.and in the right calibers, larger game hunting…..They are highly accurate,easy to use and other than the looks ,the exact same thing as any other semi-auto rifle…..

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Sadly these threads end up going nowhere… I’d love to have a serious conservation about it, but eventually the “Nobody is taking my guns away!” folks chime in and the thread gets locked/deleted…

Maybe because there is a lot of people -like me-who have owned all sorts of guns most of their lives……

bigpike wrote:

Stop confusing children about there gender, it was picked for them. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl.

Yes, we should blame transgender youth for mass school shootings.

All of this talk of “the new generation” and “when i was a boy” in the “good ol days” stuff is unreal. Just about as tone-deaf as you could possibly get.

pool2fool wrote:

All of this talk of “the new generation” and “when i was a boy” in the “good ol days” stuff is unreal. Just about as tone-deaf as you could possibly get.

So enlighten us if you think that this generation is no different than before. Do you have kids? If so, how old are they?

IDO

Took longer than I would’ve guessed.

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Don Meier wrote:

The kid may have been sick ask yourself ,Canada ,Australia, Great Britain don,t have any more mentally ill per thousand than the US . What is the difference ? For one they don,t have the NRA pumping hundreds of millions of dollars to Gop or Democrats to push their agenda. Im a multiple gun owner and have friends who are licensed to own silenced weapons , they all have proper paperwork and went through a rigorous background checks . The problem with the NRA is they don’t represent my values ,one school shooting is one to many! Its time the NRA worked to create a system to prevent this from happening , but i doubt that will happen anytime soon !

Don. I don’t get you point here. What role did the NRA play in this Shooting. I like you am not a NRA member and also don’t fully agree with all of their Views but not sure what roll they played here. This shooter from what I understand got his gun thru normal channels.

pool2fool wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bigpike wrote:</div>
Stop confusing children about there gender, it was picked for them. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl.

Yes, we should blame transgender youth for mass school shootings.

All of this talk of “the new generation” and “when i was a boy” in the “good ol days” stuff is unreal. Just about as tone-deaf as you could possibly get.

I said it was a start I have plenty more moral decay type things. Yes confusing our children in schools instead of teaching them about important things in life is an issue. Let mom and dad screw them up if they choose. They shouldn’t have thus crap stuffed down there throats in school

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pool2fool wrote:</div>
All of this talk of “the new generation” and “when i was a boy” in the “good ol days” stuff is unreal. Just about as tone-deaf as you could possibly get.

So enlighten us if you think that this generation is no different than before. Do you have kids? If so, how old are they?

I have kids age 10 and 8. Neither of them, nor their transgender classmates, are part of this problem.

Every generation is different than the last and each faces unique challenges. Blaming kids, specifically kids who are the targets of shame and bullying because of their sexual or gender identity, is some low-life stuff. Not to mention there’s absolutely no material connection there whatsoever.

bigpike wrote:

I said it was a start I have plenty more moral decay type things. Yes confusing our children in schools instead of teaching them about important things in life is an issue. Let mom and dad screw them up if they choose. They shouldn’t have thus crap stuffed down there throats in school

Schools aren’t teaching kids to be transgender or forcing anything down their throats. This is a fairy tale. They are promoting the acceptance and equal treatment of every human being, regardless of sexual or gender identity.

Can’t wait to hear the rest of your list! I’m sure once we eradicate all this “moral decay” everything will be peaches and cream in the land of milk and honey.

Jeebus, I just left another site talking about this and this thread is shorter and even more all over the place.