Red flag laws are the scariest laws of all. In every state that has them, the one good result is out weighed by the many getting screwed. These laws are so open ended, vague, and strip so many of their rights with no oversight in appeal process.
Let me use a gun show example though. An individual with a felony or history of documented mental health issues walks into a gun show where they don’t do back ground checks or mental health checks. They can buy a gun.
I have bought numerous guns at shows over the years, and every time I had to fill out a 4473. Have I just been going to the wrong shows?
I have bought numerous guns at shows over the years, and every time I had to fill out a 4473. Have I just been going to the wrong shows?
I am not sure, Opie. I have never purchased a firearm from any source other than a licensed retail establishment. Maybe someone else can clear that up for you that is more familiar with it.
Like I said in my Post. Will this law prevent a Criminal from getting a Gun – NO !!!! But if this law even temporally prevents a angry Ex spouse or ex Boyfriend/Girlfriend with a restraining order or a person who has been recently determined to be mentally ill from purchasing a gun through a purchase with a licensed gun dealer than I’m fine with it. Ideally when a person fails a background check, this information is supposed to be followed up on by Law enforcement. Is that happening or will it happen – Probably not. This is the shame of this as well as many laws – Not much enforcement of them. Will they possibly still be able to get one – MOSTLY likely. Like I said. There will come a time that people will have to make a stand. Sounds like to some of you here, that time is now.
Red flag laws are the scariest laws of all. In every state that has them, the one good result is out weighed by the many getting screwed. These laws are so open ended, vague, and strip so many of their rights with no oversight in appeal process.
Randy – Just so we are Clear. I agree with about 99% of the comments you have made. I just see this new law as only a slight extension to a already current law that has been in place for a long time ( Then again I assume you are against the current background check law that has been in place prior ) We all knew something new was coming in the way of new Gun laws. To he honest I’m a bit surprise its not something a lot worse. Not that I don’t think there are far worse Gun laws on there way. The current government made it clear they were going to add more gun laws. They are now needing to carry through with it to satisfy those that voted for them based on this and other promises.
It has taken under 30 minutes every time for me too.
So what exactly is this legislation accomplishing? Seems to me they are citing a 3 day waiting period that is nonexistent in most states, and changing it to 10.
Or is it referring to when a background check comes back questionable? I have a family member who, despite a clean record, constantly gets the double check and delay when purchasing. He’s never once been provided an answer as to why this is but he believes he must share a name with a known criminal with similar residence history.
This bill is a joke. It’s a joke to law abiding gun owners who now would have to jump through more hoops for a private sale. It’s a joke to the victims of gun crime as politicians dance and parade and say “we are doing something.”
Talk to any cop. They will tell you straight up how criminals are getting their guns. Baby mama straw purchases, and casing vehicles with hunting & shooting stickers on the windows. Your truck is not a secure storage device for a firearm. Lock those gats up or billy banger from the hood might get his hands on it and smoke his rival meth dealer with it.
for those saying this law (or all gun laws for that matter) are pointless do you have a solution to the problem? By no means am i suggested laws are the answer. Just asking what ideas do you bring to the table to solve the problem of putting guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?
for those saying this law (or all gun laws for that matter) are pointless do you have a solution to the problem? By no means am i suggested laws are the answer. Just asking what ideas do you bring to the table to solve the problem of putting guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?
Start by clearly identifying the problem, where are they getting these guns? My understanding is they are already getting them illegally, or taking from family members illegally…
I’d also start by eliminating gun free zones, have police officers have satellite offices in schools, and the possibility of teachers/admin being armed if they’d like. Only thing stopping bad guys with guns is good guys with guns, so let’s not give the bad guys areas they know they will have a free for all until police show up.
Start by clearly identifying the problem, where are they getting these guns? My understanding is they are already getting them illegally, or taking from family members illegally…
I’d also start by eliminating gun free zones, have police officers have satellite offices in schools, and the possibility of teachers/admin being armed if they’d like. Only thing stopping bad guys with guns is good guys with guns, so let’s not give the bad guys areas they know they will have a free for all until police show up.
1000X agree with all above. I tell everyone. You don’t see a criminal walk into a truck stop in Texas and pull a gun to rob the place. They know probably 50% of the people working and eating there are armed and have no problem shooting them dead on the spot. I doubt that a policy report or any investigation would even be done.
Like most laws, the problem is the lack of enforcement. Without the means to enforce them, all laws are totally useless.
So throughout the US, states are legalizing marijuana, and some people even want additional drugs legalized, in part as a way of reducing the illegal drug trade. In it’s place, there are those that through poorly thought out gun laws, will replace the cartels lost revenue with gun sales. If someone wants an item, they just need to talk to the right people and pay the right price.
I doubt this post lasts long. I don’t think anyone but a few people unrealistic people think that background checks are to keep criminals from legally getting a gun. The hope is people with mental illness, stalkers, and domestic abuse cases are turned away from getting a gun.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Randy Wieland wrote:</div>
The last version that I read had provisions for direct family members. I haven’t read any updates or amendments. It’s all the other crap in the pipeline that impacts law abiding citizens that criminals won’t follow. When was the last time a crack dealer went to the left cal gun shop and bought a new firearm??? Nope, trunk sales will continue as usual but these idiots will have a feel good law. Dumbazzes have already passed laws they can’t enforce, so I guess what is a few more if paranoid people feel better????
I’m all for the responsible and appropriate use of firearms, but who is defining mental illness in these cases? Obviously there are big ones like personality disorders, but what about a kid that is labeled at a young age with add oe adhd, or someone with anxiety? What i really hope doesn’t happen is the ones pulling the strings are going to start labeling everyone and using a very very loose interpretation of mental illness to exclude perfectly fit individuals from owning firearms.
Red flag laws are the scariest laws of all. In every state that has them, the one good result is out weighed by the many getting screwed. These laws are so open ended, vague, and strip so many of their rights with no oversight in appeal process.
Totally agree! Nosey neighbor has a problem with you and happens to know you have guns, he can report you as dangerous and you get your guns taken away. Hopefully there is more to it but as Jordan Peterson is fond of stating, there are zero Republicans in clinical psychology.
You don’t see a criminal walk into a truck stop in Texas and pull a gun to rob the place.
Might want to Google that one
for those saying this law (or all gun laws for that matter) are pointless do you have a solution to the problem? By no means am i suggested laws are the answer. Just asking what ideas do you bring to the table to solve the problem of putting guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?
I would say the first biggest issue is to actually look at the root of the problem. A lot of gun deaths are suicides. I believe its somewhere around 60%. Mental health care needs to be more accessible to help relieve that. After you factor that out the rest is basically all inner-city gang violence. The biggest help there would be better local government programs for new businesses to enter the market place in those areas to hopefully pull a lot of kids out of needing to resort to gangs to keep food on their tables. I believe after that the next biggest number is justified homicides. which needs no explanation. The current proposed legislation does nothing to address the root of the cause. It only harms law abiding people and especially harms the poorer people who are good people that live in the inner cities that are effected tremendously.
It would make more sense to have a law that says everyone MUST own and carry a gun and take classes on how to use them and draw them quickly. That way everyone has a fair shot at self preservation and protection. If everyone is armed a criminal will think twice about doing something.
It would make more sense to have a law that says everyone MUST own and carry a gun and take classes on how to use them and draw them quickly. That way everyone has a fair shot at self preservation and protection. If everyone is armed a criminal will think twice about doing something.
That would make WAY too much sense!
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
You don’t see a criminal walk into a truck stop in Texas and pull a gun to rob the place.Might want to Google that one
I bet you it happens more in Chicago in a week than it does in a year in all of Texas
The second amendment is so regulated how can anyone even call it a right anymore is beyond me.Wonder how many laws are written in a year,not just about guns but everything?People think we live in a free country and the Constitution protects our rights,Ha.If you have the money you should be able to buy a gun from anyone,anywhere,anytime.I take that back,probably should have waited for my free speech permit to show up before I typed that.
After the MORON POLITICIANS draft a new bill it should then go to a “regular” group of people to re-write it and state the actual intent.
for example – this bill should be written to say that it’s intention is to keep guns out of criminal hands and sick peoples hands.
Then to go on to say that the bill is “NOT” intended to keep guns and ammunition out of law abiding citizens hands, etc…
This is so the politicians and/or lawyers cannot come back and say “what the definition of is – is” now give us all your guns.
for those saying this law (or all gun laws for that matter) are pointless do you have a solution to the problem? By no means am i suggested laws are the answer. Just asking what ideas do you bring to the table to solve the problem of putting guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?
For starters, no pleas or dropped charges for possession of stolen firearms. Far too often around here, the gun charge is the first to get dropped. I mean it when I say that stolen firearms are a problem in my town. Even felons in possession aren’t getting hit with enough prison time to deter them.
Secondly, enforce straw purchase laws. I literally watched a girl walk back and forth from the parking lot to the store 3 times so she could buy her boyfriend the right AR-15 on Black Friday. He was sitting in the truck. I mentioned to one of the clerks at the counter and they finally starting asking her loaded questions until she admitted he figured he wouldn’t pass the BGC. Gun shops are slammed with business right now so it’s an opportune time for straw purchases to slip through without getting flagged.
Third, Legalize marijuana at the federal level. Until that happens there will be street level dealing, and with that comes more stolen guns usage of guns in crimes.
Fourth, admit that we have MAJOR socioeconomic issues and have failed our young black men in this country. A high percentage of gun crimes are committed by black males. I’ll be the first to admit I have no clue how to fix this, but faith, family, and education seem to be foundations that are not being supported within many of our communities across the country.
Originaly I thought this bill would be OK.
After watching an interview with Colion Noir I realized there may be a hidden reason for the aparent fairness to this bill.
The bill has a couple studies attached to it, to investigate it’s effectiveness.
Will they introduce more legislation when they find that this really doesn’t achieve the goals they want.
Will they then introduce gun registration as a means to truely track gun sales?
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>crappie55369 wrote:</div>
for those saying this law (or all gun laws for that matter) are pointless do you have a solution to the problem? By no means am i suggested laws are the answer. Just asking what ideas do you bring to the table to solve the problem of putting guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?Secondly, enforce straw purchase laws. I literally watched a girl walk back and forth from the parking lot to the store 3 times so she could buy her boyfriend the right AR-15 on Black Friday. He was sitting in the truck. I mentioned to one of the clerks at the counter and they finally starting asking her loaded questions until she admitted he figured he wouldn’t pass the BGC. Gun shops are slammed with business right now so it’s an opportune time for straw purchases to slip through without getting flagged.
Back in the early 2010’s I worked firearms at the Hermantown Gander while in college and must have stopped half a dozen or so fairly obvious straw sales, and I could absolutely see at some of the big box stores how it would be pretty easy to slip one by a sales associate who doesn’t know any better. The best one ended with the guy a foot in front of my face, cussing me to high heaven, with his two 3-ish year old kids standing right there….that was a different experience.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>crappie55369 wrote:</div>
for those saying this law (or all gun laws for that matter) are pointless do you have a solution to the problem? By no means am i suggested laws are the answer. Just asking what ideas do you bring to the table to solve the problem of putting guns in the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?Start by clearly identifying the problem, where are they getting these guns? My understanding is they are already getting them illegally, or taking from family members illegally…
I’d also start by eliminating gun free zones, have police officers have satellite offices in schools, and the possibility of teachers/admin being armed if they’d like. Only thing stopping bad guys with guns is good guys with guns, so let’s not give the bad guys areas they know they will have a free for all until police show up.
I don’t disagree with some of this, but who is paying for all of these changes? It cost our local school just over $120k to refit the entry way with a system and appropriate surveillance that’d at least slow down a threat coming into the building. Throw a couple LEOs salaries and benefits, staff training, and everything else this brings and you’re talking about a quick $200k + for the average small rural school. Multiply that exponentially as school size increases. Law Enforcement Officers in and around schools who are trained and creating positive connections with students is a great start. The funding for this is immediately met with the same resistance that gun legislation is in most instances. At least locally, the same people who are afraid their guns are being taken are often the same ones who don’t support livable wages for teachers, spending on school safety, curriculum for kids, etc. This is a classic example of party politics and people sticking to one side or the other through and through.
As far as the original bill goes, I do not support it as the people who follow it won’t be the issue. I do however support logical ways of protecting people…this bill just isn’t it. Mandating that some of the Covid recovery $ for schools is spent on LEOs and mental health is more meaningful legislation that doesn’t take away others’ rights.
I don’t disagree with some of this, but who is paying for all of these changes?
The highlighted portion would be next to free to implement. Having a room for the police to stop in to take a break, eat, or do paper work could easily be accomplished within schools existing infrastructure (nurses office, teachers lounge, admin offices etc.). And the teachers/admin being armed/trained would be a personal choice, with some additional funding needed for thumb print safety measures. The goal isn’t to build out some militarized zone at school, it’s to discourage school shooters by there being a legitimate chance a good guy with a gun is at school prepared to stop them.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
I don’t disagree with some of this, but who is paying for all of these changes?The highlighted portion would be next to free to implement. Having a room for the police to stop in to take a break, eat, or do paper work could easily be accomplished within schools existing infrastructure (nurses office, teachers lounge, admin offices etc.). And the teachers/admin being armed/trained would be a personal choice, with some additional funding needed for thumb print safety measures. The goal isn’t to build out some militarized zone at school, it’s to discourage school shooters by there being a legitimate chance a good guy with a gun is at school prepared to stop them.
LEOs are often already overworked in a stressful career. With how things are structured, having them stop in for a break or periodically when they aren’t busy isn’t going to be enough nor an option. I’d much rather see an impactful position in districts where they are seeing kids in the hallways, training staff and running drills, creating connections, and maybe diving into the root of problems versus being armed security guards when they can. Let them speak in classes, join a PE class on occasion, eat lunch with elementary kids, handle discipline issues at times, supervise events, etc. Having a room to do paperwork isn’t the same or as impactful as a paid position buying into the districts. One looks good on paper, the other offers a chance at legitimate change.
Unfortunately a lot of people don’t want to pay for this. Some of the Covid relief $ would be a great start it were tagged with some of these requirements versus inflating Administrators’ 6 figure salaries.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
I don’t disagree with some of this, but who is paying for all of these changes?The highlighted portion would be next to free to implement. Having a room for the police to stop in to take a break, eat, or do paper work could easily be accomplished within schools existing infrastructure (nurses office, teachers lounge, admin offices etc.). And the teachers/admin being armed/trained would be a personal choice, with some additional funding needed for thumb print safety measures. The goal isn’t to build out some militarized zone at school, it’s to discourage school shooters by there being a legitimate chance a good guy with a gun is at school prepared to stop them.
LEOs are often already overworked in a stressful career. With how things are structured, having them stop in for a break or periodically when they aren’t busy isn’t going to be enough nor an option. I’d much rather see an impactful position in districts where they are seeing kids in the hallways, training staff and running drills, creating connections, and maybe diving into the root of problems versus being armed security guards when they can. Let them speak in classes, join a PE class on occasion, eat lunch with elementary kids, handle discipline issues at times, supervise events, etc. Having a room to do paperwork isn’t the same or as impactful as a paid position buying into the districts. One looks good on paper, the other offers a chance at legitimate change.
I’d be fine with that too. Just saying there is an easy, and nearly free, starting point that may deter, or help deter, the thing (school shootings) that are common ground that everyone wants to end.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Randy Wieland wrote:</div>
Red flag laws are the scariest laws of all. In every state that has them, the one good result is out weighed by the many getting screwed. These laws are so open ended, vague, and strip so many of their rights with no oversight in appeal process.Randy – Just so we are Clear. I agree with about 99% of the comments you have made. I just see this new law as only a slight extension to a already current law that has been in place for a long time ( Then again I assume you are against the current background check law that has been in place prior ) We all knew something new was coming in the way of new Gun laws. To he honest I’m a bit surprise its not something a lot worse. Not that I don’t think there are far worse Gun laws on there way. The current government made it clear they were going to add more gun laws. They are now needing to carry through with it to satisfy those that voted for them based on this and other promises.
First of all, don’t assume! I have no issues with background checks. What I do have issues with is half ass laws that are pathetic open ended with limited to no over sight to protect innocent law abiding people. As an example, I have a brother in law that has spent thousands of dollars trying to get his name cleared. He fails the check for an error in n his record. He has no criminal history but someone’s data entry error screws him. He has spent years trying to get it resolved and it continues to be a problem. Why should he be penalized financially with the legal costs and still experience a failure in the system????? Good buddy went through a divorce in a state with red flag laws. All his ex wife had said is she wants her rifles. Just doe asked how many firearms “does HE own” and she ordered an officer to obtain and hold all his firearms. It’s 3 years after the divorce is final and they are still not returned to him. That’s after multiple hearings on the matter. It’s sexist, has no over sight, and no way to effectively fight it.
I agree that there needs to be a preventative means to stop mentally ill and criminals from m obtaining firearms. But you equally need to protect law abiding citizens from gray areas and loop holes in the system. Either do it right or go back to the drawing board and figure it out. Additionally you have too many people uneducated in firearms and the overwhelming panic that comes with it. Death or serious injury with firearm related crimes is tragic. No one questions that. We all want to see violent crimes come to an end. Unfortunately violence has been here since biblical times and we won’t end it anytime soon. Reality is gun violence is quite low in the big picture and the law makers and media tell you otherwise.
Looking at this another way. you have more serious injuries caused by drunk driving. Vehicles are registered, strict laws of alcohol consumption and operating a vehicle. Strict laws on selling to minors, and the list goes on and on. Yet how many people still drink and drive??? Why do all vehicles not have a breathalyzer??? Why do we not do background checks to sell alcohol??
I respect laws that govern a process to live civilized as a society. But I don’t support feel good laws that make paranoid people feel better at the expense of law abiding responsible people. If laws are to be made, they need a true check and balance to protect the innocent.
So, back to the root of the problem. Since biblical times there are those individuals that will commit violent crimes by any means possible. They will use guns, knives, rock, stick, or their bare hands. Even in states with the death penalty, violence continues. I don’t have a solid solution because there is not one available. Societies have been trying to figure this out for thousands of years and guess what, they all have failed. So, to fix this you need to stop the drive or desire to violence for some individuals. Maybe we identify the gene that causes this and mutate people to correct it???
FYI there are funding programs already in place for school resource officer salary assistance. the 3500 population town I grew up in in MN has had a resource officer at least part time for over 20 years now.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
