Hooks for Sturgeon and Cats

I’ve always used Gamakatsu Octopus Circle hooks that have the offset eye in size 4/0 or 5/0 when sturgeon and/or cat fishing. I just tie the hook to the 80 lb braid using a Trilene knot. Some trips I’m satisfied with my hookup percentage and some trips I wish it was higher. I know experience and technique have a lot to do with the hook up percentage, but what hooks are people using and which brand and style do you recommend? Is a straight eye better than an offset eye? Is a snell knot better than a Trilene not? Are there any hooks that are more “forgiving” to improper circle hook, hooking technique? Any brand/style that should be avoided to help ensure the prevention of gut hooked fish?

Thanks,

Boone

Hey Boone, I was thinking the same thing last night about missed fish.

There are some days when my customers will miss most all bites it seems like. Then nights like last night where the guy couldn’t do anything wrong. I’m leaning towards a “it’s the fish” thought.

There’s been a lot of rumbling on the gamma’s breaking lately. I’m not sure what’s up with that. Quality control??

As far as knots go “if it’s not broke don’t fix it”.

I use 8/0 circles 95% of the time and 6/0 the rest.
I simply reel down with rod in rod holder when a tap occurs. I don’t sweep, set, or anything else; just start reeling.

I prefer Gamakatsu Octopus Circle hooks

I prefer LOTS of bait.
Even small sturgeon can suck in a 5″ shad no problem.

Once the water starts dropping I switch to kahle or regular octopus hooks for the kitties, need to be able to set the hook. Seems they start chewing more and less taking off with the bait which is essential for circles.

Not going to pretend to know sturgeon but I still wonder why no one fishes hair rigs for them? Seems a fixed rig would be way more effective than a circle. A circle needs them to move one way or another, a hair all that’s needed is to suck in once.

I have used Gamakatsu hooks with the upturned eye exclusively for about eight years. If you are going to use hooks with upturned eyes you need to use a snell knot. It’s not that the snell is a better knot, but, tying to the eye changes the mechanics of the hookset. I moved up to a size 6/0 when I started using shad to improve the clearance between bait and hook point. Might help you. I use an improved clinch knot on my swivels and have not had a knot failure.

nhamm wrote:

A circle needs them to move one way or another, a hair all that’s needed is to suck in once.

I fish vertical. All they need to do is eat the bait. Reel down and the hook will find soft mouth to stick to.
First tap i’m reeling down. Don’t wait for nuttin.

boone wrote:

size 4/0 or 5/0 when sturgeon and/or cat fishing

IMO,
a 4/0 is going to have a hard time connecting with the large jaw of any cat over 12#. It’ll hook into the side of the mouth, but will be much harder to roll into the upper or lower jaw. That’s why i choose 8/0 almost exclusevely for channels; exception might be when knowingly fishing for smaller cats.

All they need to do is eat the bait.

Technically, they have to eat the bait, then hold the bait, then you reel in time to hook them.

Check out the third fish in the vid, how quick they can suck in spit out. The fish in the vid are all brood stock from a University. I would imagine they are given strictly food to eat, thus training them to hold most their food. Where a wild sturgeon may suck and spit a lot more due to the nature of a river bottom, and evidence by many fishermans reports of some days hookups are great, others not. Sturgeon I would think are no different than any other fish, sometimes they’re on the feed, others more of neutral mood.

Point of a hair rig is when they blow it out it sticks. No need for the hold, no need for reeling down, the fish is caught. Just adding my 2 cents, I’ll fish for sturgeon eventually and try it out myself, but until then just get some Intel from you guys

nhamm wrote:

I’ll fish for sturgeon eventually and try it out myself,

So until then, why not tell us how to fish for them.

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>nhamm wrote:</div>
I’ll fish for sturgeon eventually and try it out myself,

So until then, why not tell us how to fish for them.

Just trying to have a conversation man. If you don’t have anything against it, that gives me all the info I need to try it out, seriously thanks

If you have baited the circle properly, he’ll have a hard time spitting the bait out without the point catching. Then again, with how light they bite sometimes, they’ll have a lot of time to keep trying to spit it out.

All good info. I hope to capture a sturg picking up my bait on video this year… We’ll see how that goes.

mplspug wrote:

If you have baited the circle properly, he’ll have a hard time spitting the bait out without the point catching. Then again, with how light they bite sometimes, they’ll have a lot of time to keep trying to spit it out.

Pretend your hand is a mouth, put your circle/octupus rig in and close your fist slightly, pull the hook out between the circle of your index and thumb VERTICALLY, and see how many times each stick. Octu always wins for me. The circle needs that turn to be really effective.
And that’s the idea of the OP, and my argument in general is raising the odds of catching a fish by the details. The steps needed for circles is one extra, if you can cut that out why not? A sturgeon biting is one percentage, another for them hanging on to bait, another for them turning with it and/or you getting to the reel and digging it in, is another.
Why I love the internet, usually someone can prove you wrong and that just means back to the drawing table. Most likely I’m gonna have my kiddos with me one day and want to maximize the %’s of getting one, doing some homework now.

Your going to miss fish…You never know what is biting when you drown a worm in a river; or any natural cut-bait.
Sturgeon have soft enough lips to kiss them, just ask Brian. Hooks easily bite in. When a walleye bites your circle hook, your going to miss them the majority of the time.

Moral. Just because you are targeting a specific species, expect everything else to bite too and don’t expect your sturgeon setup to work great on everything else, because it don’t.

Common species to steel bait or act like a sturgeon bite: Mudpuppies, Walleyes, Perch, Sheephead, Northerns, White Bass, dogfish, channel cats, flatheads, etc etc. Of all these species i’d use a J hook except channel cats; and those i let run and self/hook set. They often “Taste” or “Mouth” baits giving a similar tap tap as a sturgeon would…But if they haven’t eaten it yet, reeling down like you might on a sturgeon will yield a poor hook-up percentage for channel cats…again, not sturgeon.

When a sturgeon bumps your bait…He just put it in his mouth. Reel down.
If it takes you 10 seconds to get to the rod after a bump, and the rod is not bumping still; you waited too long to reel down. Wait for the next bump. Be quick. They do suck and spit. Reel down immediately on the first bump. Keeping your line tight is absolutely the most important. You’ll never feel a bump if you have a slack line.

Was out fishing sturgeon on Friday night. I use about a 16″ 60 lb braid leader using a polomar knot. I was using 4/0 and 5/0 gama octopus circle hooks with the barb removed.

Had 11 bites, caught 10 fish. 9 sturgeon and one sheep. The one we missed felt like a sheep bite.

When I get a bit I pick up the rod and immediately reel with the rod tip low to “set” the hook.

Bottom line is if there isn’t a problem, don’t go searching for one.

biggill wrote:

Had 11 bites, caught 10 fish. 9 sturgeon and one sheep. The one we missed felt like a sheep bite.

Is that a pretty common hookup % for your boat, and most others here?

nhamm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
Had 11 bites, caught 10 fish. 9 sturgeon and one sheep. The one we missed felt like a sheep bite.

Is that a pretty common hookup % for your boat, and most others here?

Some days. LOL!

Anyone have a preference on offset or no offset for circle hooks? I buy all of mine with an offset. I can’t imaging it makes any difference hooking into sturgeon but I think it ups my hookup ratio on those good for nothing, toothy lil, bait thieving walleyes that hang around the rainy.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Some days. LOL!

Same here. I can count on one hand how many fish I believed were sturgeon that came off after hookup. With that theory, most of the fish that don’t hookup I believer were not sturgeon.

I’m gonna take FBRM’s advice and give some of his methods a try.

I’ve said this before but I got tired of the spring sucker run and going through two containers of nightcrawlers for two fish. Once I got this rig down if I miss more than 2 bites an outing now I’m pretty POed. Its about maximizing time on the water for myself, I might only have my lunch break, and that one bite may be my only chance at a fish.
And I can’t speak to some of those species FBRM eluded to BC they just don’t have much of a population where I fish, but it does just as well with the other species. Channels, carp, walleyes, buffalo, and sheeps.
I’ll stop beating the horse at this point, but I would recommend trying it out at least. Sorry to the OP if this went off track.

Nothing wrong with talking outside of the box.
I know Dan, Boone is a sponge for info and it’s discussions like this that help us all make a better fish trap.

Anyday is a good day to learn something new. I’m all ears as well.
I’ll be moving to Prescott next week, will be about 1 minute from the landing at the confluence. Look out catfish and sturgeon!!

nhamm wrote:

I’ve said this before but I got tired of the spring sucker run and going through two containers of nightcrawlers for two fish.

Gotta buy em by the Flat. I go through about 3 a year just by myself.

I pile about 6 on a single 8/0 hook for sturgeon or cats, so you’d go broke buying by the container!!!

When i’m sucker fishing for bait, i usually use a small hook and about 1/3 worm. Really light tip rod. They aren’t too aggressive of eaters so gotta keep the bait size small. Almost always guy hook at least 1 sheephead this way though.

Thanks everyone for the great discussion on hooks and hook setting techniques. Last year I just starting reeling when I got a bite without removing the rod from the holder and had pretty decent luck. But I generally hesitate to start reeling on the first tap and I’ll wait until the rod tip is pretty much constantly bend down at least a little. Based on FBRM’s comments, maybe I should reel immediately upon the first tap. I also generally engage the clicker on my bait casters so the fish can take out some line and I know others say to keep the spool engages so the fish hook themselves. I’ll just have to keep learning and experimenting to see what works best for me.

FBRM … I hope your enjoy living in Prescott. You’ll have great access to the lower St. Croix and Pool 3, and a quick trailer ride to Everts or St. Paul Park for Pool 2. I use the Prescott ramp a lot.

Boone

nhamm wrote:

…pull the hook out between the circle of your index and thumb [b]VERTICALLY[/b],

…to simulate hooking a sturgeon biting upside down?

I Googled an article where a manufacturer rep for Gami stated that offset circles are more likely to gut hook a fish than a straight circle.

mplspug wrote:

manufacturer rep for Gami stated that offset circles are more likely to gut hook a fish than a straight circle.

These are all I use and I’ve only done this once. It’s eerie having you’re hand in there up to your elbow.

I was just throwing it out there because I came across it on Google. To me it says an offset hook gives you a better chance to hook up. I’d go with an offset based on that. It’s certainly safer to the fish than a conventional hook, so I’d be willing to use offset (which I do already) and take the remote chance.

When I compare them visually, to me a straight shank just doesn’t “look” as effective.

I’m not a fan of the offset circles.
IMO the only benefit of the offset is that there is an increased gap compared to a non-offset of identical size.

However, to me, that would make the hook more effective when it is laying in the fishes mouth with the offset down vs up.

Now a standard circle hook is equally effective regardless of how it lays in a fishes mouth.

If an increased gap size is required, i increase hook size. I don’t switch to offset.

The other reason i’m not a fan of the offset is Physics and Strength.
I cannot fathom how an offset circle hook made of the same material and diameter could be equally as strong as a stardard circle hook.
The standard circle hook when pulled is going to used all its strength in one linear direction.
An offset circle hook is going to introduce a side load / twisting load on the hook and IMO that cannot possibly be stronger.

I might be all wet on this, but it’s why i prefer not to use offset circle hooks and i stick with the bigger 6-8/0 hooks.

One of you CAD experts with a PE want to draw up some circle hooks and do finite analysis?

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

One of you CAD experts with a PE want to draw up some circle hooks and do finite analysis?

I think we can just leave it up to personal preference.

mplspug wrote:

…to simulate hooking a sturgeon biting upside down?

Pug as you would have seen in the video sturgeon don’t necessarily “bite” your bait, as well as many species. They suck it in the hole in their face.
My point I was trying to illustrate is what type rig is best in the circumstance of a fish sucking in/blowing out.
If you want to be so literal take a hook, tie it to 8″ of line and splitshot the other end of line. Now tie another 8″ of line to bottom of hook.
Make same circle with hand and pull hook up into palm with line and drop through same circle. Duplicating the suck/blow.