Help with Fluorocarbon knots.

Ok,

Im trying to figure out fluorocarbon lines here. I’ve tried them a couple times, but found it was VERY picky to knot correctly so I stuck with mono. After a suggestion from a friend, I bought a spool of Stren fluoro (8lb) and decided to try again.

Its exactly the same as the suffix and Berkley lines I’d tried. Maybe 1 out of 4 knots hold.

I’ve tried a variety of knots, thinking maybe my usual clinch knot was not working for fluoro. I still have issues drawing the knots down without damage apparently. I am soaking the knots to a borderline crazy degree. I’ve tried 50-100 times, all different ways of babying the knots and wiggling them to draw down, etc, but I get similar results of most knots popping off after drawing tight.

I’d really like to use fluoro as leaders this year, but I’m not gonna risk losing gear and fish if I cant get the knots figured out. Whats the secret?

I use an improved clinch knot with 8 turns, wet it and pull it tight. I’ve never had any trouble with a fluorocarbon knot coming loose.

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/Berkley-ae-top-five-must-know-knots.html

I use the Trilene knot with good success.

Stren flourocast is not a quality flouro first off.

Clinch always failed me as well on smaller diameter flouro, anything over 8# no issues, but 2,4,6 is annoying as heck.

Through experimentation lately it seems a trilene knot with 3-4 wraps works much better. IMO the more wraps the worse bc when pulled tight its more surface area that causes friction that causes heat that is what compromises the knot. Could be way off but it works so far, and is easy to tie.

I dont understand it then. I use these same knots, wetted heavily and most knots break with very light pressure after drawing down.

I believe its gotta be abrasion damage from drawing the knot down, maybe my spit is defective :/

nhamm wrote:

Stren flourocast is not a quality flouro first off.

Clinch always failed me as well on smaller diameter flouro, anything over 8# no issues, but 2,4,6 is annoying as heck.

Through experimentation lately it seems a trilene knot with 3-4 wraps works much better. IMO the more wraps the worse bc when pulled tight its more surface area that causes friction that causes heat that is what compromises the knot. Could be way off but it works so far, and is easy to tie.

Well I have tried other brands, but a friend said I use stren and never have breakage issues. I thought why not, I’ll try to replicate it as the line was cheap.

The amount of wraps could be an issue, I often do 6 to 8. I’ll try less wraps and see how the knots go.

The best knot I have found for all lines isn’t even a knot but rather a “slip”…It’s called the double uni (line to hook). Not to be confused with the uni braid to leader knot.

I have spent a lot of time looking for the “best knot” and this things wins hands down, every time, all the time, period. I have knot war tested this to just about every knot/slip I can find including the Palomar, Trilene, Improved Clinch, Jansik, San Diego Jam, etc…

It is not easy to master initially. It takes a while to learn but after it has been learned you can tie it about as fast as a Palomar. The only thing you vary is the number of wraps for light/heavy line, flour., braid, mono, etc…

If anybody thinks they have a “stronger” knot let me know and I will knot war test it and report back.

Well the issue here isnt really the type of knot- atleast its not the main issue, The same knots I tie in mono are great. I’m apparently getting heat/abrasion damage while pulling the knot down, even though Im doing so as methodically and gently as humanly possible. Most of the knots break with VERY little effort- regardless of the style.

I’m actually shocked to still here people say “Ive never had any issues”, and sure would love for them to be here right now to show me what I’m doing wrong.

That double uni would be impossible for me to perform on the ice or in a boat when it starts getting cold out. Fingers just stiffen up.

Binford I’m right there with ya on others experience. It’s baffling.

Eugene Bend knot. Simple and easy to tie. Always worked well for me

Fluorocarbon lines (spool-able) do have less knot strength.

As long as you’re able to tie a knot without it slipping….

Try the Eugene bend. A Lot of bass pros use it for flouro to hook. I also use it for steelhead fishing when using flouro tippits. If it holds for steelhead it will certainly hold for if fishing.

Mwal

A small dab of chapstick will help to reduce friction damage done from snugging down a knot. I use Seaguar red label, but have not used anything <20 lb test which is tied to braid with an FG knot and a loop know on the business end. I do not use any lube on the FG knot.

Knots I use, both I found to be the best I have tried. One important thing on the fg knot is to make sure to pull it super tight before you trim anything.

Get yourself some quality flora line like ASSO heavy ice or just give up and stick with mono.
I have never had problems with a good quality fluoracarbon line and thats catching fish from the range from panfish to lake sturgeon. Though, the sturgeon did twist the heck out of the 4# test before I got it on the ice.

I bought Yozuri brand to try out today. So far the clinch and the Eugene knot mentioned above break with little effort.

I have severe doubts the $30/ spool fluoro would be any different at all.

Edit,

I may be getting somewhere here. I’ve had 5 regular clinch knots in a row hold. I started drawing the knots down with much slower, steady pressure.

binfordw wrote:

I bought Yozuri brand to try out today. So far the clinch and the Eugene knot mentioned above break with little effort.

I have severe doubts the $30/ spool fluoro would be any different at all.

Edit,

I may be getting somewhere here. I’ve had 5 regular clinch knots in a row hold. I started drawing the knots down with much slower, steady pressure.

Did you try that double uni slip I mentioned above with the link?? It isn’t that hard to tie. Even that Shaw Grigsby knot eye-full posted about works well (although not as good as the double uni) with Fluor. I don’t think regular clinch knots will be your long term answer to Fluor. Mono yes but not Fluor.

I just started using it in 2017 and love it, I mostly use the polomar knot but sometimes the trilene

Improved clinch but leave a long tag on it. Pull down slow to the hook and then steady pressure on both the line and the tag to pull tight.

I make all my 3 ways and most of my live bait rigs with 8# fluorocarbon and I’ve never had an issue unless I pull the knot too quickly. I also run lighter fluorocarbon leaders on my jigging rods and never have had a hook pull out from the line.

Good luck!

Use a plain old uni knot. Works great. If using braid, loop it through the hook eye twice then tie the uni as usual.

Seems the only knot I’m managing to get to hold with any reasonable repeatability is the clinch / improved clinch.

Fluoro cant really be this crappy or zero people would bother with it.

I’ve tried all knots mentioned, All break with little effort 90% of the time.

I can tie the same knots in 2 to 10lb mono and they hold perfectly. I have 3 diff types of fluoro in 8lb, and get similar poor results with each.

I have watched several videos, And duplicated them- My knots still snap easily the majority of the time.

What the heck am I doing differently!?!

Palomar knot works great for me. I use 2lb. fluoro on all of my ice fishing rods for panfish and all the way up to 20lb. for bass fishing. I slide the loops up the main line a bit and try to pull them tight at same time. Can’t remember the last time I broke off.. knock on wood.

Wow. Out of boredom I tried palomar’s and I had 4 in a row hold perfectly fine, without being overly paticular with how I tied them.

I still find it very odd that the line is so picky, but if I can get it to work well with a knot I might try using it. Thanks for all the suggestions

binfordw, you’re not alone. I’ve had the exact same results and frustration as you with my experience with fluoro, especially hearing from so many people who rave about fluorocarbon. I too have assumed that friction heat is the reason why I’ve had so much trouble. I’m basically done with trying to use fluorocarbon because of the failures in the knots that I can’t seem to figure out, as well as the line memory. Honestly, mono has never really been a problem for me at all and I generally like to go by the motto “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Also, when watching videos from Al Lindner it seems like he prefers to use mono for many applications.

x2 on the palomar not. Never a problem and super easy! there is another knot called the Berkley nanofil Knot. I think its just an addition to the palomar knot. never used that one because the palomer has never let me down.

I have had great success with the power knot. Doesn’t slip or cut itself with braid mono or fluorocarbon.

Attachments:

1. 

   powerknot.jpg
   

I use the Palomar knot for everything including braid and mono. I use Seaguar Inviz floro line as a leader from my swivel to the jig . Make sure when tying floro with a Palomar knot you wet it good and slowly pull the TAG END when you cinch it down .

I’m confused…

Folks are talking about two different things here: a braid-to-flouro connection knot and a flouro-to-line-tie knot. To which is the OP referring?

If we’re talking about flouro to line tie knots, it’s important to note that flouro is a more dense material than mono and, because of that increased density, does not lend itself well to bending as when being knotted. Tests show that even the best, most carefully tied knots are getting no better than 77% knot strength with flouro. Average Joe’s like me, tying on quickly in the field, are probably getting even less. Mono line, being much softer, doesn’t suffer this kind of problem.

Could this be part of the problem?

Matt Moen wrote:

Improved clinch but leave a long tag on it. Pull down slow to the hook and then steady pressure on both the line and the tag to pull tight.

I make all my 3 ways and most of my live bait rigs with 8# fluorocarbon and I’ve never had an issue unless I pull the knot too quickly. I also run lighter fluorocarbon leaders on my jigging rods and never have had a hook pull out from the line.

Good luck!

Sounds a lot like what I do, except I switched from the Improved clinch knot to the Trilene (Double turn) knot.

I will tie it loosely at first and wet it. I then alternate very slight pulls with little pressure on the tag end and the other end. Once it gets tight to where it will take more pressure to lock it down, I use my thumbnail and slide the top down to make the coils tight, so now when I do the final cinch there is little friction going on at all.

Being more careful like this I rarely, if ever, had a knot fail me.

BrianF wrote:

I’m confused…

Folks are talking about two different things here: a braid-to-flouro connection knot and a flouro-to-line-tie knot. To which is the OP referring?

Could this be part of the problem?

I’m referring Fluoro to lure/hook.

I’m simply looking to use fluoro for leaders on 3 ways.

I don’t mind palomars for jigs, but Im also wanting to use this with 3 way crank setups. I really dont think I want to mess with palomars and 4-5″ crankbaits.