Health insurance – What a joke!

tim hurley wrote:

Guess where Sara Palin went for health care as a child. Canada. Friend of mine has a sister who has duel citizenship, lives in Canada, husband had cancer family lives here lots of experience with both systems. Her opinion? Canadian system is much better. Perfect? No, but the horror stories you hear are exagerations based on politics.

No secret Canada has fantastic health care. I am hoping to scrape by for another 10 years and head north. I will weigh my options when that day comes but what is not to like about reasonable health care, and living my life out on a beautiful lake? As long as my beautiful wife has some land and space, it should be zero problem convincing her…..I just need to convince myself that it is the best option until the impeachment.

biggill wrote:

Mental health care and a drugs and alcohol treatment are also covered by gubment.

We can’t have a bunch of crazies walking around shooting people.

Spoiler alert! I bet that more than half of congress boozes it up on a regular basis. The crazies will never be stopped, you can only hope to contain them.

Iowaboy I am glad you have gotten back to a little normalcy, I can’t imagine dealing with something like that.

Not sure what Canada has to do with this discussion.

Healthcare is definitely a complex issue. I’ve been lucky where I haven’t been nailed with high premiums yet. I can’t imagine paying $200, much less $500 a month.

sounds like some rosie o’donnells in here… why wait ?

Sheldon brings up another major contributor to health care issues. I think it’s already been commented on but our mainstream (I call western medicine) medicine is based solely on treating symptoms rather than cures. If you look online and filter out the garbage, you’ll see there are lots of foods and remedies that are scientifically proven to treat or cure common health issues that plague our scociety.

Proof is the prescription advertising we see on tv. Now why in the world would a pharmaceutical company want to waste money advertising a product that can’t be purchased on free will? And why would I want to pay for advertising for a product that a doctor tells me I NEED?

Besides the obvious “ask your doctor about xyz”, I think there’s a much more ominous purpose. I believe it’s a brainwashing scheme that is intended to keep us in this viscous cycle of harmful drugs. If a drug can make someone feel slightly better, that’s all they need to sell more. We already know they don’t want tu cure anything, that’ll lose customers.

We don’t have health care we have drug pushers. We aren’t looking to cure anything we are trying to sell pills.
Eating right, not smoking, exercise and losing weight would cure most problems. But nobody wants to do it. Here’s some pills stay fat and unhealthy.

Iowaboy,

Curious as to what your holistic regimen was. Care to share? PM if you prefer.

I learned a lot about non-Western medicine when my FIL was battling cancer. I am always interested in learning more about “alternative” methods of natural treatment.

Where I work one of the biggest things was great health care with no deductible on the medical as an option. I was cringing when I heard if you like you plan you can keep it. Reason: you can’t keep it when the provider stops offering it as an option reacting to the health care act! hose job.

Have been very lucky though with the wifes job her health plan isn’t phenomenal but there is no premium granted there is union dues. We just make sure not to go in unless some one really needs to. Shows a big factor when changing jobs is the cost of health care with neither of us paying a premium is like a bonus on our pay if you ask me.

not to create a super long post but the world were in health care is super expensive, but at the same time everyone knows plenty of people that would have been dead along time ago without the advances in modern medicine.

Iowa boy any insight you can give on alternative medicine would be greatly appreciated. Really glad you were able to find alternative that worked.

jake47 wrote:

Iowaboy,

Curious as to what your holistic regimen was. Care to share? PM if you prefer.

I learned a lot about non-Western medicine when my FIL was battling cancer. I am always interested in learning more about “alternative” methods of natural treatment.

I was first tested in Liberty Missouri by a chemical injury specialist that treated me with antigens that were manufactured on site,problem was I was so overloaded with chemicals that I reacted to the antigens as they contained the very chemicals that make me sick.

so I dove headfirst in the dark arts of medicine teaching myself everything I could about chemical overload and how to help myself,I wanted to live.
as I stated,modern medicine does not recognize this so I could not get any help at all.
it was then I discovered what is called contact reflex analysis,at first it seemed hokey but it made sense so I found a Dr. that practices it and had done so for many years.

if you google contact reflex analysis you will find that the modern medicine arena really craps on it because it flat out works and they dont want their money tree messed with.
I know it works because it has kept me alive for the last sixteen years.
there is no ‘cure’ for me and folks like me but with continuing treatments weekly I am able to function at about the 80 percent level which beats the crap out of lying in bed not being able to control any aspect of my life.

absolutely the purist nutrition in very high doses is used,sometimes alone,most often with many other forms of nutrition that work together to aid the bodies affected areas by taking out the chemicals by bonding with them and allowing the body to pass them without re-affecting me.

the problem with me is,the nerve damage is already done and cant be restored.
the sheath surrounding my nerves is slowly hardening causing me to lose sensations of pain,touch,smell,along with the bodies ability to communicate with the brain as a whole.
the auditory and visual hallucinations when exposed to many things still happens to me as the brains electrical circuits have been affected and it is reacting to it and it is trying to alert me by this happening.
you really learn to listen to your body !!

I am able to function in part thanks to beef adrenaline that I have to take daily as my adrenal glands have been fried from the insecticides that I was exposed to and overloaded with.
sorry I went off about me,my problems are my own but I want you folks to know,there are NO safe chemicals of any kind,be careful with them !!

I have to live with this the rest of my life,the next time you think its okay to use herbicides and insecticides with no safety checks in place even in small amounts,use me as an example,trust me,its not funny when you take a leak outside and kill the grass where you did which I did when I first started the detox regimen years ago and still do on occasion when some of those chemicals are released from my fat cells.
its a dang wonder I dont glow in the dark !!!!

now,if I can just find a job that will put up with me having these issues.
I am a liability and understand that,but,I have so much to offer with my talents I would like to hope that those talents would outweigh my absences once or twice a week.
pity party over LOL

mplspug wrote:

Not sure what Canada has to do with this discussion.

Because the grass is always greener.

Look, here’s the deal from someone who has actually lived in a country with a single-payer or so-called “socialized healthcare” system. Bottom line is that it does NOT solve all problems. Whether or not you view it as “better” than our US system will depend on many, many factors.

On the plus side, everyone is covered.

The negatives are that people in countries like Canada, the UK (where I lived), and elsewhere in Europe ALL have as many complaints as we do. They are just different complaints for the most part. The common complaint is that someone else is getting a free ride on my back. Everyone, everywhere in the world has that idea.

Remember, no matter what system you have, someone has to pay for it. The reason taxes are very high in Europe and Canada (compared to our taxes here in the US) is because of this fact.

In general, I found the UK’s system to be:

1. Very accessible. Everyone gets reasonable care and it’s available everywhere. Records are centralized so if you are sick while away from home it’s just as easy as seeing your own doctor.

2. Very, very, very slow. They are big fans of “watchful waiting” and that is not to say that that approach is not the right answer sometimes.

3. Unless a procedure was an absolute emergency that could cause your immediate death, you were put on a waiting list. I have an in-law in the UK who has been on the waiting list for a knee replacement for over 5 years.

4. Care is very cheap by our standards. All Rx, for example, were less than $10 if not outright free.

5. Care is very regimented. Physicians have limited choices for each condition, they must “stay between the lines”. For example, they may want to try a new drug on a condition you have, but if that drug is not on the formulary, it’s a no-go, no matter what.

6. Care is delivered in a manner where cost vs benefit IS a consideration. This part especially freaks out Americans because we want everything possible to be done regardless of cost and probability of any meaningful outcome.

So there you go. IMO a completely mixed bag. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea which system I like better. The UK’s is very simply to participate in compared to ours where we have the complexity of both insurance AND navigating the healthcare system.

Grouse

eyeguy507 wrote:

No secret Canada has fantastic health care.

One thing to consider when bringing up Canada is they have a health care system that cares for a population base about the same size as California.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Because the grass is always greener.

Exactly

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

4. Care is very cheap by our standards. All Rx, for example, were less than $10 if not outright free.

I have always held that all these other countries with their price controls and formularies drives up the prices of meds here.

mplspug wrote:

I have always held that all these other countries with their price controls and formularies drives up the prices of meds here.

There is truth to that, but who is really to blame?

We actually have a law that bans our Medicare system from negotiating prices with pharmaceutical companies. Our Congress literally made it illegal for our own government to negotiate lower prices.

Unsurprisingly, since the drug companies CANNOT raise prices in tightly price-controlled countries, where then would they do it?

Rx drugs are only “cheaper” in cost-managed systems because either the country’s national health service or whomever the payer is has negotiated that lower price.

BTW, just to prive that the grass is almost never REALLY greener, one of the trends in the UK is toward taking out private healthcare insurance to essentially cut to the front of the line and get faster and (what is precieved to be) better care. Dental care is almost totally a private US-style system in the UK now even though they technically have national coverage.

Grouse

Tegg the small size of Canada should not matter too much if anything with economies of scale larger should mean cheaper. Did not read all the drug comments but of course we all know that they(perscription drugs) are cheaper in Canada too-the government does not and cannot force a drug company to sell at a lower price, but they will not protect a patent to a company that will gauge its citizens, it would allow a generic version-those big companies sell in Canada and they still make money, please do not worry about them.

Excellent stuff Sheldon. I have a chiropractor that I go to that is called a total health clinic. Some of the things he does are a little “unusual”, but he does a great job of helping people understand thier body. His daughter I believe specializes in the diet aspect of wellness.

He turned to this holistic medicine after he contracted lymes disease. If I remember right, he was seeing several doctors for a year or two trying to treat the disease with no success. He finally found a holistic doctor that was able to treat him. Not sure what it was that worked for him, but it was the reason he redirected his practice. He’s written numerous articles about how bad sugar is for a human diet. He believe it is the single biggest factor for state of health in this country.

I guess the point is that it’s obvious that many people are fed up with modern western medicine and are finally realizing how holistic medicine is actually a legit practice although our “system” doesn’t recognize it. I believe it’s because they are in the business of curing people and not just finding customers.

My wife just found out that see was going to get a raise from her employer but when we factored that in with the expected increase in health insurance premiums she would wind up making less money. She put her notice in and luckily found a job with better benefits.

For me it is very expensive to carry insurance for a family of four so how the hell can some people keep pushing out kids? I have a family living down the block from me who has 7 kids and one parent doesn’t work. And no that are not rich. Explain that one to me!!!!!

31lifer wrote:

My wife just found out that see was going to get a raise from her employer but when we factored that in with the expected increase in health insurance premiums she would wind up making less money. She put her notice in and luckily found a job with better benefits.

For me it is very expensive to carry insurance for a family of four so how the hell can some people keep pushing out kids? I have a family living down the block from me who has 7 kids and one parent doesn’t work. And no that are not rich. Explain that one to me!!!!!

WELFARE

biggill wrote:

Excellent stuff Sheldon. I have a chiropractor that I go to that is called a total health clinic. Some of the things he does are a little “unusual”, but he does a great job of helping people understand thier body. His daughter I believe specializes in the diet aspect of wellness.

He turned to this holistic medicine after he contracted lymes disease. If I remember right, he was seeing several doctors for a year or two trying to treat the disease with no success. He finally found a holistic doctor that was able to treat him. Not sure what it was that worked for him, but it was the reason he redirected his practice. He’s written numerous articles about how bad sugar is for a human diet. He believe it is the single biggest factor for state of health in this country.

I guess the point is that it’s obvious that many people are fed up with modern western medicine and are finally realizing how holistic medicine is actually a legit practice although our “system” doesn’t recognize it. I believe it’s because they are in the business of curing people and not just finding customers.

lymes disease,I was infected with that too six or seven years ago,I have it under control for the most part but I had a relapse from it this past week.
I have no idea of what triggered it but I was helping a friend bring in his crops and I am assuming that with the extended hours and physical demands of climbing in and out of ag equipment all day long brought it out of hiding.

yes,good chiropractors are worth their weight in gold and then some,especially if they practice acupuncture !!

31lifer wrote:

My wife just found out that see was going to get a raise from her employer but when we factored that in with the expected increase in health insurance premiums she would wind up making less money. She put her notice in and luckily found a job with better benefits.

For me it is very expensive to carry insurance for a family of four so how the hell can some people keep pushing out kids? I have a family living down the block from me who has 7 kids and one parent doesn’t work. And no that are not rich. Explain that one to me!!!!!

Many employer sponsored plans don’t charge you more for additional kids. There are traditionally a few tiers, like employee only, employee + spouse only, employee + kids only, or “family.” Doesn’t matter if you have 1 kid or 10 in that case.

Iowaboy1 wrote:

yes,good chiropractors are worth their weight in gold and then some,especially if they practice acupuncture !!

He does. Glad to hear that. Did it a few times to treat hypertension. Found out that one of the main pressure points is where I had wrist surgery. I was 34, 155 lbs with high blood pressure. He thought this could be the reason for it. I can’t confirm that’s was it but I haven had high blood pressure since. I contributed much of the high blood pressure to stress at work. That stress and blood pressure is gone now.

biggill wrote:

Excellent stuff Sheldon. I have a chiropractor that I go to that is called a total health clinic. Some of the things he does are a little “unusual”, but he does a great job of helping people understand thier body. His daughter I believe specializes in the diet aspect of wellness.

He turned to this holistic medicine after he contracted lymes disease. If I remember right, he was seeing several doctors for a year or two trying to treat the disease with no success. He finally found a holistic doctor that was able to treat him. Not sure what it was that worked for him, but it was the reason he redirected his practice. He’s written numerous articles about how bad sugar is for a human diet. He believe it is the single biggest factor for state of health in this country.

I guess the point is that it’s obvious that many people are fed up with modern western medicine and are finally realizing how holistic medicine is actually a legit practice although our “system” doesn’t recognize it. I believe it’s because they are in the business of curing people and not just finding customers.

Whoa man, can you keep your posts to like three sentences or less? Waaaayyyy too much for us to comprehend in one sitting.

This isn’t like me to stir the pot but I’ll throw a tongue-in-cheek thought out there:

A common thought on this thread is that healthcare costs are outrageous. Let’s tie that into another institution in this country with cost soaring way out of control:

Healthcare costs a lot…..the money covers the facilities, equipment, and employees……the employees, whether doctors or RN’s, didn’t just walk in off the street, they had to go to college……thus the employees need to make decent money just so they can pay off their student loans…..and there we have it; Healthcare and Higher Education, two things in our country that keep rising in costs, with the elites of each business making copious amounts of money.

Biggill, if you’ve got any tinfoil left, I could use a hat…

Dan wrote:

there we have it; Healthcare and Higher Education, two things in our country that keep rising in costs, with the elites of each business making copious amounts of money.

And both industries with heavy govt involvement and subsidy….but I’m sure more govt involvement and subsidy will help…

philtickelson wrote:

Whoa man, can you keep your posts to like three sentences or less? Waaaayyyy too much for us to comprehend in one sitting.

3 perfectly constructed paragraphs I might say. Where’s the emoji that pats himself on the back?

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
Whoa man, can you keep your posts to like three sentences or less? Waaaayyyy too much for us to comprehend in one sitting.

3 perfectly constructed paragraphs I might say. Where’s the emoji that pats himself on the back?

I know, I’ve been saying that for months now. MORE EMOJIS!

On the pharmaceuticals topic there is a new trend that some drug companies are trying. People following the Mille Lacs debacle should check into this new mess in drugs.

Drug companies are looking into selling their patents to a tribe, then leasing the use of the patent back from the tribe. Under this scenario the patent law now falls under tribal law and can be extended as long as the tribes want. This creates a future of no more generic drugs.

Technology companies are doing the same thing, registering their patents under tribal laws.

The good news is that Washington is starting to take notice. When they do, hopefully we can include the ML treaties into whatever fix Washington decides to do to stop the tribes and big pharma from using this loophole.

Kyhl wrote:

The good news is that Washington is starting to take notice.

Good news???

I found my hat.

Kyhl wrote:

On the pharmaceuticals topic there is a new trend that some drug companies are trying. People following the Mille Lacs debacle should check into this new mess in drugs.

Drug companies are looking into selling their patents to a tribe, then leasing the use of the patent back from the tribe. Under this scenario the patent law now falls under tribal law and can be extended as long as the tribes want. This creates a future of no more generic drugs.

Technology companies are doing the same thing, registering their patents under tribal laws.

I read those articles back in September and was floored by these moves. While patently absurd (bad pun unintended), the strategy is also pretty dang smart. The same strategy has been successfully used by public universities in the past.

Kyhl wrote:

The good news is that Washington is starting to take notice. When they do, hopefully we can include the ML treaties into whatever fix Washington decides to do to stop the tribes and big pharma from using this loophole.

Don’t hold your breath, unless the feds are ready to revoke tribal sovereignty altogether. Congress seems to care slightly more about big pharma than the big pond.

and BOOM! we linked Mille Lacs. Just in time for Friday night. Gotta go get me some Beer and Pretzels.