Gun carry ruling

https://www.fox9.com/news/mn-court-rules-keeping-gun-in-a-car-on-the-road-is-considered-a-public-place

I’m just curious what the implications of this are. Does it change anything? I always keep my shotgun unloaded and cased while driving to hunt or clay shoot.

I don’t see how it changes anything, the lower court agreed to some language nitpicking in my opinion and ignored a former mn supreme court ruling. You either need a carry permit or you have to follow the normal transport rules like unloaded and fully cased or unloaded and in trunk is all this says.

Permit to carry law does not apply to long guns. Pistols only.

-J.

I think they should charge the dude’s mother with something for naming hi what she did.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Permit to carry law does not apply to long guns. Pistols only.

-J.

Nope, 624.7181 RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS IN PUBLIC PLACES. says it does not apply to “(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;”

Wouldn’t recommend it but you can carry a long gun.

That seems really weird. Can people jump into your car if you’re on a highway and your car is considered public? Strange ruling.

Illegally carrying a BB gun?!!

“BB guns are included under the Minnesota statute that prohibits carrying rifles or shotguns in public. To have a BB gun in a public setting, it needs to be unloaded and kept in a gun case. However, there are exceptions for people with pistol permits or under certain circumstances, like bringing the weapon home after a purchase or taking it in for repairs.”

This pretty much sums it up. It simply outlines the rules for guns being carried in vehicles.

As to being in the public while on the road I disagree with. Unless a law enforcement person is given permission or a valid reason to search a vehicle, like smelling dope, alcohol, etc, I think they need to get a search warrant. Maybe our resident offer will pipe up on this.

During the deer season when I hunt with my break action black powder pistol, I have to break it down and carry it in a hard case to and from the hunting area. I cannot carry the pistol in the vehicle in the holster legally, the holster is only legal from the car where I park to hunt to the stand since I do not have a carry permit. And I have to carry the pistol in the holster on the outside of all other clothing while going to and from the stand, or if I am actively still hunting.

Youbetcha wrote:

That seems really weird. Can people jump into your car if you’re on a highway and your car is considered public? Strange ruling.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

As to being in the public while on the road I disagree with. Unless a law enforcement person is given permission or a valid reason to search a vehicle, like smelling dope, alcohol, etc, I think they need to get a search warrant. Maybe our resident offer will pipe up on this.

This doesn’t say your car is a public space. It says the car is not a container that removes a firearm from being in a public space as the law applies to carrying firearms. The argument was that a car is private property but so is a purse, or a backpack, or any container you own. To carry a firearm “in a public place” requires either a permit or it must match one of the allowed methods in the statutes and simply being “in a car” is not one of them.

I thought you could leave your unloaded gun uncased as long as you were going to or from hunting spot. Not other stops or places

lawfully hunting on private or public land; or traveling to or from a site the person intends to hunt lawfully that day or has hunted lawfully that day 97B.045

JEREMY wrote:

I thought you could leave your unloaded gun uncased as long as you were going to or from hunting spot. Not other stops or places

Yes, that’s in Subd. 3 here: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/97B.045

Reef W wrote:

Yes, that’s in Subd. 3 here: 97B.045

Made 2nd post because 2 links in one never works for me. There are a bunch of exceptions to this rule though that make it complicated. DNR recommends:

The best advice is to always unload and always case., there will be no doubt as to if the firearm is being legally transported

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/tips/enforcement.html

Reef W wrote:

There are a bunch of exceptions to this rule though that make it complicated

I think that’s true of pretty much all rules and regs these days.

Moderator Sharon!

gimruis wrote:

Moderator Sharon!

Oh I hadn’t noticed that, congrats!

gimruis wrote:

Moderator Sharon!

I saw that earlier! Amazing! Mother hen that keeps us all in line well deserved!

Thanks guys! I wasn’t sure if that would go unnoticed or not but Dave musta tweaked something to make it red. I’m looking forward to helping out!

let me start by saying that I am not an attorney, but I have studied the firearms laws that are in place here. let me break this down for you based on the actual Minnesota statues that come into play in this case. but before I do that there is one thing that comes into play here and that is if the said BB Gun was a BB pistol or a BB rifle. so, the statues you need to look at are, 624.712 (definitions), 624.714 (carry without permit), and 624.7181 (rifles and shotguns in public places).

the part of 624.712 that is important in this case reads as follows:

Subd. 2.Pistol. “Pistol” includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.

This part right here is very important, if the BB gun in this case was a BB pistol and not a rifle.

“Pistol” does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a “BB gun,” a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children’s pop guns or toys.

now the part from 624.714 that comes into play in this case.

Subd. 1a. Permit required; penalty. A person, other than a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1, who carries, holds, or possesses a pistol in a motor vehicle, snowmobile, or boat, or on or about the person’s clothes or the person, or otherwise in possession or control in a public place, as defined in section 624.7181, subdivision 1, paragraph (c), without first having obtained a permit to carry the pistol is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. A person who is convicted a second or subsequent time is guilty of a felony.

so now if the BB gun in this case is a BB pistol then there should of been no charges filed for the carrying of it in the vehicle because under 624.712 a BB pistol is not defined as a pistol by statue. Now here is where 624.7181 comes into play and where the charge could of came from in this case if the BB gun in the case was a BB rifle and not a BB pistol.

here is 624.7181 that would come into play in this if the BB gun was a rifle.

624.7181 RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS IN PUBLIC PLACES.
§Subdivision 1.Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following terms have the meanings given them.
(a) “BB gun” means a device that fires or ejects a shot measuring .18 of an inch or less in diameter.

(b) “Carry” does not include:

(1) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun to, from, or at a place where firearms are repaired, bought, sold, traded, or displayed, or where hunting, target shooting, or other lawful activity involving firearms occurs, or at funerals, parades, or other lawful ceremonies;

(2) the carrying by a person of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun that is unloaded and in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, if the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and no portion of the firearm is exposed;

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;

(4) the carrying of an antique firearm as a curiosity or for its historical significance or value; or

(5) the transporting of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun in compliance with section 97B.045.

(c) “Public place” means property owned, leased, or controlled by a governmental unit and private property that is regularly and frequently open to or made available for use by the public in sufficient numbers to give clear notice of the property’s current dedication to public use but does not include: a person’s dwelling house or premises, the place of business owned or managed by the person, or land possessed by the person; a gun show, gun shop, or hunting or target shooting facility; or the woods, fields, or waters of this state where the person is present lawfully for the purpose of hunting or target shooting or other lawful activity involving firearms.

Subd. 2.Penalties. Whoever carries a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun on or about the person in a public place is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. A person under the age of 21 who carries a semiautomatic military-style assault weapon, as defined in section 624.712, subdivision 7, on or about the person in a public place is guilty of a felony.
Subd. 3.Exceptions. This section does not apply to officers, employees, or agents of law enforcement agencies or the armed forces of this state or the United States, or private detectives or protective agents, to the extent that these persons are authorized by law to carry firearms and are acting in the scope of their official duties.

so based on all this I think they charged him under sub division 1b(2) and 1b (5) because my guess is that it was uncased in the car. then they added 1b (3) because most likely he didn’t have a carry permit. now the part that address the car and public place is 1c. the car itself is private property so no, the car cannot be considered public property but the road the car was on is public property.

so, I hope this break down of the statues gives you a clearer understanding and helps you not to jump to conclusions that are not correct or true.

He was charged for violating 624.7181 subdivision 2.

monticatgeek wrote:

so now if the BB gun in this case is a BB pistol then there should of been no charges filed for the carrying of it in the vehicle because under 624.712 a BB pistol is not defined as a pistol by statue.

Irrelevant, a BB gun is a BB gun whether it is classified as a pistol or not.