Go Pack Go

All I know is if Brady wins another SB and does it by going through Brees, Rodgers, and then Maholmes. Anyone who doesn’t already agree that Brady is the GOAT QB better change their mind or they are flat out Insane. To be honest I don’t think he needs it to be the GOAT, but it sure would be icing on the Cake. I cant say that I would be willing to Bet on TB in the SB – But I also could not ever bet against any team that Tom Brady is the QB on either.

gimruis wrote:

Why do people think that Rodgers talent/skill/tenure is being wasted? Because he’s only won 1 super bowl?

Yes, well kind of, because he’s only been to one SB. QB’s are judged off of playoff performances, and Rodgers hasn’t been able to close the deal often enough. It’s why Eli Manning will probably be a HOF and Matt Stafford won’t. It’s why Montana was considered the GOAT (pre-Brady), and Marino wasn’t. Right or Wrong QB’s are judged on SB’s and a lot of Rodgers contemporaries have dwarfed his accomplishments in that area (Brady, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Mahomes)

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
Why do people think that Rodgers talent/skill/tenure is being wasted? Because he’s only won 1 super bowl?

Yes, well kind of, because he’s only been to one SB. QB’s are judged off of playoff performances, and Rodgers hasn’t been able to close the deal often enough. It’s why Eli Manning will probably be a HOF and Matt Stafford won’t. It’s why Montana was considered the GOAT (pre-Brady), and Marino wasn’t. Right or Wrong QB’s are judged on SB’s and a lot of Rodgers contemporaries have dwarfed his accomplishments in that area (Brady, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Mahomes)

Im not sure what you mean by 2nd all time in playoff wins. According to the site i see hes not 2nd all time Joe Montana is.

BigWerm said a lot of what i would have said but basically he doesn’t win the big game. During the pregame show they were splicing images of Jordan and Rodgers together which is preposterous. Jordan has 6 championships and Rodgers has only one. Rodgers is 1-4 in conference championships. Guys on here make fun of the Vikings all the time cause they choke in the big game but the reality is Rodgers does too, he just didn’t on ONE occasion. I cant think of a greater inequality between talent of a QB and lack of championships other than Marino. People want to talk about Rodgers being one of the greatest QB’s to ever play the game, and he is in some ways, but a 1-4 record in chances to make it to the big game says otherwise.

HOF QBs don’t grow on trees. to have one in the same organization for a decade and only have 1 ship but going to the conference title game 5 times has to be considered a waste in a lot of ways

crappie55369 wrote:

Im not sure what you mean by 2nd all time in playoff wins. According to the site i see hes not 2nd all time Joe Montana is.

Sorry I meant 2nd all time with playoff wins for just the Packers, one behind Brett Favre at the moment.

LaFleur is going to have to live with that decision to kick a useless FG the rest of his life. Its 4 down territory. Even Buck and Aikman said it was before that point. Being down 5 instead of being down 8 does nothing. Even if you don’t convert on 4th down, Tampa gets the ball inside their own 10 yard line and the Packers have the same amount of timeouts plus the 2 minute warning left at their disposal. He must have made his decision before they got to 4th down too because he called 3 plays to the endzone.

Rodgers Stat Line:

33/48 for 346 yards, a 101.3 passer rating, with 3TDs and 1INT (where Lazard was clearly interfered with in a similar way to the one at the end of the game)

Brady’s Stat Line:

20/36 for 280 yards, a 73.8 passer rating, with 3TDs and 3INTs

While everyone is into comparing quarterbacks and assigning credit/blame to only them, let’s also compare their surrounding respective teams.

Special Teams: Advantage Bucs as the Packers rank near the bottom of the league in most categories

Defensive Line: Major Advantage Bucs – they are deep and had the best statistical season against the run in the league

Linebackers: Major Advantage Bucs – they have a couple of sideline to sideline guys who are among the best in the league, while GB guys grade out below average by PFF

Secondary: Tie? – Jaire Alexander was the best DB on the field by far, but when looking at a collective group he’s surrounded by very average guys; TB had some injuries but also didn’t have to play coverage long as their DL was getting home early and often

Offensive Line: Tie? – I’d go Packers here with Bakhtiari in the lineup, but you don’t replace an all pro LT; Brady’s group is very cohesive and had a far better day

Running Backs: Tie or maybe slight advantage GB? – This is tough to evaluate as one team is far better against the run than the other. Jones and Williams are a nice compliment, but Fournette looked good and Ronald Jones is no slouch

Tight Ends: Advantage Bucs – Sure, people think Tonyan had a great year and he did. He also ranks atop the league in TDs as uncontested catches. A lot of us here could catch the balls he’s catching in play-action. Gronk isn’t his old self, but Cameron Brate is a very good TE on the same roster.

WRs: Advantage Bucs – Adams is good, but collectively as a unit the rest doesn’t compare. The Bucs are loaded here with no questions asked. MVS and Lazard are Special Teamers in Tampa Bay.

The Buccaneers are a better team top to bottom with far more depth. Rodgers is great and this year’s MVP, but he isn’t going to overcome all the disadvantages on a 53 man roster as 1 player. Brady didn’t “put him in his place” or anything like that, rather he utilized his team’s advantages and talent to win while making mistakes along the way – and Kudos to him for doing so. Brady is great and there’s no denying it, but his accomplishments in NE will always trump whatever outcome this season brings. Here he has a lot of nice shiny weapons and a hand-picked loaded roster, while in NE he often did it the way Rodgers has been forced to try. Brady is the GOAT and winning matters but to compare the present day version of the two based off of Sunday’s game is pointless.

There are only a few discernible comparisons that can be made. One is that Brady’s TEAM is better right now (which everyone knew), and that he’s going to the SuperBowl. Another is that Brady’s legacy will clearly rank him as more accomplished than Rodgers (which everyone knew). Brady was also put in many more situations to succeed with his respective coaching staffs, organizational moves, and teammates talent. He capitalized on all of those, but whose to say someone else wouldn’t as well?

buckybadger,

Your arguments are exactly why people outside of WI think Rodgers talent has been wasted. They have done nothing to put good talent around him. He may be the most talented QB of all time, but will never get that credit because the team did not win enough.

Lafluer’s decision was arrogance, and that starts with Rodgers, that why he is a love/hate QB. The whole team took on Rodgers arrogance this year, and it cost them in this game.

buckybadger wrote:

The only discernible comparison that can be made is that Brady’s TEAM is better right now (which everyone knew), and that he’s going to the SuperBowl. He didn’t beat Rodgers. Neither are out there tackling one another or scheming their respective defenses.

Is that why the game was in GB? GB was 13-3 and TB was 11-5. Pretty similar defensive metrics for the season too (TB 9th, GB 13th). And even if your excuses are true, it’s their own fault they’ve spent so much draft capital on a mediocre secondary, the FA singings on the DL weren’t elite, and they drafted a project QB and 3rd string RB with their top 2 picks after last years failure in the NFC championship.

Excuses are like A-holes, everyone’s got one and they all stink!

Vacation Time

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I’m from Chicago. I’ll take Rodgers, the rest of the team and entire coaching staff over what we have.

First off I didn’t watch the game… I am only basing this off what the reporters and people on line are saying…. late in the game, 4th and goal, down by 8. You have 2 scenarios. One is you kick a field goal and pray your defense can stop one of the best QB’s in the league to a 3 and out and then drive probably 75 yards with under a minute and no time outs to score a TD for the win… or you go for the TD and 2 point conversion from inside the 10 yard line with one of the best QB’s in the league and try to tie, to get to OT. Now both require 1 thing… a TD. Either way, if you do not make the TD on 4th, you still have them pinned inside the 10, to make your defensive stand. Why on earth would you take the ball out of Rodgers hands inside the 10 when you need a TD ? As much as I dislike him and the Packers, they forfeited their only chance at getting to the SB on that play, granted other poop happened, but that was a HUGE mistake. Cue the uncertain future… again.

So is TB a lock at home ?

Big G
LaFluer must have had dough on the Bucs,

As far as TB a lock, no but I wouldn’t bet against Brady in a SB. Never.

toddrun wrote:

buckybadger,

Your arguments are exactly why people outside of WI think Rodgers talent has been wasted. They have done nothing to put good talent around him. He may be the most talented QB of all time, but will never get that credit because the team did not win enough.

Lafluer’s decision was arrogance, and that starts with Rodgers, that why he is a love/hate QB. The whole team took on Rodgers arrogance this year, and it cost them in this game.

I am on the boat of Rodgers being somewhat “wasted” as a talent – absolutely. I never said I wasn’t.

Lafleur’s decision wasn’t arrogance, rather the opposite and backing down to the safe thought. If it was sheer arrogance, I think he would’ve called plays differently to not solely take endzone shots before kicking the FG. He would’ve called plays like they were using all 4 downs from the start.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
The only discernible comparison that can be made is that Brady’s TEAM is better right now (which everyone knew), and that he’s going to the SuperBowl. He didn’t beat Rodgers. Neither are out there tackling one another or scheming their respective defenses.

Is that why the game was in GB? GB was 13-3 and TB was 11-5. Pretty similar defensive metrics for the season too (TB 9th, GB 13th). And even if your excuses are true, it’s their own fault they’ve spent so much draft capital on a mediocre secondary, the FA singings on the DL weren’t elite, and they drafted a project QB and 3rd string RB with their top 2 picks after last years failure in the NFC championship.

Excuses are like A-holes, everyone’s got one and they all stink!

I don’t list excuses, rather widely accepted points that clarify TB’s roster is more talented and therefore why they won. If you eliminate the QB position and compare the rest of those 2 rosters and think TB is NOT more talented, then you lost all credit in discussing football. Rodgers may be the MVP, but he is one of 53 guys going against a more talented roster (and still gave it a hell of a shot).

Yes, I completely agree 100% the shortcomings are “their own fault” if you mean from the front office…no need to argue with people who agree. Last year’s draft gave them nothing to help this season. Rodgers has thrown TD’s to ONE first round player in his entire career and that guy is Mercedes Lewis (the aging, blocking TE). It’s easy to see why Rodgers may be disgruntled in a press conference or in general at times. He just had a statistically better season than Mahomes and Brady at age 37, while leading a team that knowingly doesn’t have remotely similar weapons. That alone is a feat worth noting.

Football is the ultimate team game. An MVP QB is great, but it still takes more. This outcome is more a product of what is/isn’t around Rodgers, than what Rodgers is capable of.

Don’t forget Tavon Austin…he went 8th overall in 2013 and Rodgers threw to him this year.

No doubt, Rodgers has made some scrap heap receivers look palatable and some good receivers look great in GB.

Scott

Scott Gergen wrote:

Don’t forget Tavon Austin…he went 8th overall in 2013 and Rodgers threw to him this year.

No doubt, Rodgers has made some scrap heap receivers look palatable and some good receivers look great in GB.

Scott

Tavon Austin didn’t catch a TD from him though. Rodgers has literally had one guy in his entire career drafted in the 1st round catch one of his TD passes. That’s unbelievable. I wouldn’t fault him one bit for leveraging everything he’s got against the front office for either more “say” or to leave in coming years.

buckybadger wrote:

He would’ve called plays like they were using all 4 downs from the start.

This is what I was thinking. LaFleur already knew what he was going to do before it got to 4th down. So it wasn’t just a one down play decision on 4th down because he had already decided on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down that if they didn’t get into the endzone, they weren’t going for the TD on 4th down. Unless something drastic happened on 3rd down, like getting to the 1 yard line.

Early spread has the Chiefs favored by 3.5 points “on the road” in Tampa for the Super Bowl.

big_g wrote:

Why on earth would you take the ball out of Rodgers hands inside the 10 when you need a TD ?

I can only assume it was due to TBro’s Analytics brethren telling him that’s the right move from the booth.

buckybadger wrote:

If you eliminate the QB position and compare the rest of those 2 rosters and think TB is NOT more talented, then you lost all credit in discussing football.

Well one team was 13-3 the other was 11-5, so that would be the ultimate indicator on who has the better roster to me. TB’s secondary, even more so without their top 2 safeties, is one of the worst in the league (20th in the league on the season, compared to 7th for GB), something that should have benefited ARodg. As far as weapons go, TB has the bigger names, but none are remotely close to Davante Adams’ year this year, GB also had the superior running attack (5th vs 8th), and Tonyan had 586 yards and 11 TD’s vs 903 yards and 7 TD’s for Gronk and Brate COMBINED. Should we go through the long list of mediocre WR’s Brady has made into Pro-Bowlers over his career?

Also, only 1 first round receivers is a meaningless point, as historically 1st round WR’s have a huge failure rate. Here’s a good article on it, hint here’s the first rounders from 2019-2015: N’Keal Harry, Marquise Brown, DJ Moore, Cal Ridley, Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross, Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, Amari Cooper, Kevin White, DeVante Parker, Nelson Agholor, Breshad Perriman, and Phillip Dorsett.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2020/4/23/21232643/success-rate-of-first-round-wide-receivers-this-century

Here’s a thought and I have nothing to back it up, Rodgers was sacked something like 6-7 times in this game, I wonder of he was somewhat hurt and couldn’t throw like he had been earlier in the game? I guess time will tell.

GOne Pack GOne

Get over it Girls

The Packers and Rogers had a Great Season. Coming up one game short of making it to the SB is a lot better season than the Vikings had, or are likely to have for a long time. The Vikings have one of the worst Defenses in football and one of the worst Offensive lines in football. Its going to be hard for them to fix one of those problems, let alone both of them in the near future.

Brady reminded me of Brett Favre the way he threw balls up for grabs.

Three interceptions thrown and should’ve been a couple more that were dropped.

Even the 50 yard completion in the first quarter that set up their first touchdown was a bobbled ball.

I guess it’s true what they say: Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.

fishthumper wrote:

The Vikings have one of the worst Defenses in football and one of the worst Offensive lines in football. Its going to be hard for them to fix one of those problems, let alone both of them in the near future.

They did have a historically bad defense this season. You could pin a lot of that on missing players, however. Their run defense was especially bad because they traded away Linval and Michael Pierce opted out. Hunter missed the entire season. Barr and Kendricks also missed a large portion of the season. Zimmer himself admitted that it was the worst defense he’s seen under his tenure.

The Vikings had a top 5 offense from a statistical stand point so I’m not sure if the offensive line was as bad as you make it out to be. Its a zone-run-blocking scheme which is Gary Kubiak’s way of operating, and he just retired.

Either way one looks at it the Packers had a really good season unfortunately it’s not a best of series and more a tournament. 1 bad game/ loss you go home. Only 1 team gets to be a champ.

On the other hand I rather enjoyed seeing old Diggs for buffalo sent home.

Dont forget getting only 6pts off of 3 consec Possessions that Brady threw picks…the call on 4th and 8 is horrible but its easy to lose sight of other key factors.

Refs let them play in the defensive backfield all game which was fine. However. With game on line dont go calling something that was happening all game.

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the Vikes squeak out the North with 11 and an easier schedule.

Please pass the pipe. You must be smokin’ some darn good sh#t!

riverbassman wrote:

Refs let them play in the defensive backfield all game which was fine. However. With game on line dont go calling something that was happening all game.

That Lazard play was borderline, the Johnson one wasn’t.

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It was a bad call because they weren’t calling it the whole game.

If they would have been, it would have been the right call.

With their inconsistency, the refs made it a bad call.

Tim Huston wrote:

It was a bad call because they weren’t calling it the whole game.

If they would have been, it would have been the right call.

With their inconsistency, the refs made it a bad call.

Maybe but the coach put them in that position in the first place.

There were a lot of reasons why they lost – The refs inconsistency was one of the many reasons.

There were a half dozen pass interference’s that weren’t called. Both ways. Rodgers interception the most glaring.

OK, fine, you’re going to let them play. So be it.

But then for the refs to change their approach when the game is on the line? Really? The refs aren’t supposed to have ANYTHING to do with the outcome of a game.