Go Pack Go

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
Its kind of cool you have a Old established QB nearing the end of their career going up against a young up and coming QB in each game and will have the same for the Super bowl.

What? Can you explain what you mean? Rodgers is 37 vs Tom Brady is 42. And Josh Allen is 24 vs Mahomes is 25. So old timers in one game, young guns in the other…

Yep got the games mixed up in my mind. Maybe I should be under concussion protocol. But either way we will have a old star against a young star in the super bowl. I’d really like it to be Brady against Mahomes. I don’t think we will get many more chances to see them match up against each other.

The Buffalo vs Brady thing has an interesting twist too even though I don’t think that’s the likely matchup. Brady absolutely trounced the Bills during his tenure at New England. The first year he leaves, the Bills are resurrected and win the division.
And then they meet again in the Super Bowl.

This may say more about Bill Belicheck than anyone. Clearly the success the Patriots had for years was more directly tied to Tom Brady than Belicheck.

gimruis wrote:

The Buffalo vs Brady thing has an interesting twist too even though I don’t think that’s the likely matchup. Brady absolutely trounced the Bills during his tenure at New England. The first year he leaves, the Bills are resurrected and win the division.
And then they meet again in the Super Bowl.

This may say more about Bill Belicheck than anyone. Clearly the success the Patriots had for years was more directly tied to Tom Brady than Belicheck.

Thats non-sense. Give Belichek a quarterback and some talent and he will win. Nobody on the face of the earth could have won with Newton at quarterback. Brady & Belichek were a great team for many years but both can win without the other given decent resources & personnel.

Dutchboy wrote:

Thats non-sense. Give Belichek a quarterback and some talent and he will win. Nobody on the face of the earth could have won with Newton at quarterback. Brady & Belichek were a great team for many years but both can win without the other given decent resources & personnel.

Well I think the Patriots still had most of the same personnel on defense and at their offensive skill positions this past season and they sucked. Tampa had the same team they’ve had for years but instead of the turnover-prone Winston, they have Tom Brady. The proof is in the pudding. One went 11-5 and the other went 6-10.

Dutchboy wrote:

Traitor.

I thought WE would lose to New Orleans too. Didn’t mean I wasn’t rooting for the Tompa Bay Buccaneers.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
Thats non-sense. Give Belichek a quarterback and some talent and he will win. Nobody on the face of the earth could have won with Newton at quarterback. Brady & Belichek were a great team for many years but both can win without the other given decent resources & personnel.

Well I think the Patriots still had most of the same personnel on defense and at their offensive skill positions this past season and they sucked. Tampa had the same team they’ve had for years but instead of the turnover-prone Winston, they have Tom Brady. The proof is in the pudding. One went 11-5 and the other went 6-10.

Might want to check things. NE had a bunch of starters opt out over Covid. Not worth arguing over.

I’m with Dutch. NE was in trouble last year too (relatively speaking), but having Brady kept them afloat. They were already on a downward trend but their division has been so historically bad that it didn’t matter. Also take a look at what else TB added this year. They’re absolutely stacked!

That doesn’t mean that I’m saying Tom Brady isn’t great but IMO Belichick has been the biggest reason for their success. NE shouldn’t have tried to win 7 games this year; that’s the only evidence I can see against Belichick being a mastermind.

Let’s not forget about Gronk either… the best TE in the league helps.

big_g wrote:

Let’s not forget about Gronk either… the best TE in the league helps.

Best in the league???

Robert Tonyan (GB tight end) is as good or better than ol Gronk…..and neither are the best in the league (except Tonyan with TD’s)

Look at the 2020 stats

B-man wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Let’s not forget about Gronk either… the best TE in the league helps.

Best in the league???

Robert Tonyan (GB tight end) is as good or better than ol Gronk…..and neither are the best in the league (except Tonyan with TD’s)

Look at the 2020 stats

that tight end would be in KC. In travis kelce.

glenn57 wrote:

that tight end would be in KC. In travis kelce

Kelce had a historic season. It was so good and far superior to any other tight end that they didn’t even vote for another tight end in the all-pro award category. He has stats better than most wide receivers.

If I had to pick one that was second best it would be Darren Waller or Mark Andrews this past season.

Gronk hasn’t been the best TE in the league for about 6 years. Hes barely even considered a “good” TE at this point.

TB has talent but the way Rodgers is playing i don’t see GB losing this game.

crappie55369 wrote:

Gronk hasn’t been the best TE in the league for about 6 years. Hes barely even considered a “good” TE at this point.

TB has talent but the way Rodgers is playing i don’t see GB losing this game.

i heard he and brady need to hook up for one more touchdown pass to break a tie in that QB and reciever mark to go ahead of Rice and i believe young.

then i think the gronk will retire!!!!!!!

glenn57 wrote:

i heard he and brady need to hook up for one more touchdown pass to break a tie in that QB and reciever mark to go ahead of Rice and i believe young.

That’s incorrect. Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison have the most hook ups for touchdowns in league history with 114.

Brady and Gronk are at 97. They already have the most TD hook ups together as a QB-TE duo and they are the only duo to have done it on 2 different teams.

Rice and Young did it 92 times. So Brady and Gronk passed them earlier this season.

fishthumper wrote:

But either way we will have a old star against a young star in the super bowl. I’d really like it to be Brady against Mahomes. I don’t think we will get many more chances to see them match up against each other.

I really hope it’s Brady vs Mahomes, and Brady wins. Brady is already the GOAT by any measure, but going thru Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes to another SB would just be the icing on the cake.

gimruis wrote:

This may say more about Bill Belicheck than anyone. Clearly the success the Patriots had for years was more directly tied to Tom Brady than Belicheck.

This is ridiculous, Belicheck won with Matt Cassel, Jimmy G and Drew Bledsoe. And as stated they had 6 starters on Defense opt out this year in addition to losing Brady. The Pats will be back, and soon, and even if that doesn’t result in SB wins that doesn’t diminish the unprecedented run Belicheck orchestrated. Just that they were better with the GOAT QB. The only even remotely comparable era with the best Coach and QB, would be Bill Walsh’s (into George Seifert) 9ers 5 Super Bowls and 8 Championship games. Belichick has 13 AFC Championship games and 6 rings for comparison.

The number that ends all discussions……….14, the number of championship games Brady has played in.

The most interesting man in the world.

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Careful Tbro, your green and gold is leaking out.

61orbt wrote:

If only Rodgers didnt spend the majority of his career with Mike McCarthy and a Ted Thompson drafted defense. Hes every bit as good, if not better, at the position of quarterback as Tom Brady. Brady just got gifted a HOF coach and an incredibly talented defense year in and year out.

That’s laughable. Go check out the metrics on that Pats defense all 13 years, and get back to me. There were a few top defenses, but often he was making Filet Mignon out of chicken $hit defenses and offensive weapons. There’s plenty of QB’s who are more physically gifted than Brady, there’s a reason he was a 6th rounder, but there’s not a better QB. Period. It’s not even debatable, especially when factoring in Brady’s leadership and playing on a smaller contract for the good of the TEAM. Also, Brady only had one year with Moss, where he had someone as good or better than Devante. And none of this is a knock on Rodgers, who I think is phenomenal, it’s just that Brady is that much better by any meaningful metric.

BigWerm wrote:

Go check out the metrics on that Pats defense all 13 years, and get back to me.

I think a significant portion of their defensive stats during this period were skewed because of the division they play in. Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets have mostly been pretty terrible during that span and 6 of the games the Patriots played every season were against them.

I’m not saying that it was solely because of this reason, but it certainly had something to do with it.

B-man wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Let’s not forget about Gronk either… the best TE in the league helps.

Best in the league???

Robert Tonyan (GB tight end) is as good or better than ol Gronk…..and neither are the best in the league (except Tonyan with TD’s)

Look at the 2020 stats

Yes, stats tell you everything. The fact that they have to double team him, EVERY PLAY, should tell you something. Sometimes, just being on the field brings value to the rest of your team. I should have phrased it, the best TE Brady could ask for.

Big-g

So you think he’s better than Kelce?

I’d take Kelce in a heartbeat over Gronkski

B-man wrote:

Big-g

So you think he’s better than Kelce?

I’d take Kelce in a heartbeat over Gronkski

Having not watched at all this year, I honestly don’t know… but what I am saying, the best TE in the league, for “Tom Brady” would be Gronk.

big_g wrote:

Yes, stats tell you everything. The fact that they have to double team him, EVERY PLAY, should tell you something.

They don’t double team him every play. Most plays he doesn’t even go out on a route anymore. He stays in to block. He even acknowledged this before he returned to play himself too because he said his biggest value now is blocking. Cameron Brate is the tight end on Tampa now that goes on more passing routes.

He still does have some value in the red zone because of his size but he’s clearly just a shell of his former dominant self in terms of being a receiving tight end.

The tight end position has two obvious levels:
1) Travis Kelce
2) Everyone else

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Yes, stats tell you everything. The fact that they have to double team him, EVERY PLAY, should tell you something.

They don’t double team him every play. Most plays he doesn’t even go out on a route anymore. He stays in to block. He even acknowledged this before he returned to play himself too because he said his biggest value now is blocking. Cameron Brate is the tight end on Tampa now that goes on more passing routes.

He still does have some value in the red zone because of his size but he’s clearly just a shell of his former dominant self in terms of being a receiving tight end.

The tight end position has two obvious levels:
1) Travis Kelce
2) Everyone else

Same could be said about the QB position. But that has yet to be settled on the field. Remember our boy Chilly was good at talking the talk also.

Dutchboy wrote:

Same could be said about the QB position.

The difference between Kelce and the second best tight end this season was wide. If you asked 10 people with football knowledge who the top tight end is, 9 of them would say Kelce and one moron would say Gronk. If Kittle played all season, he is in the conversation too with Kelce.

The difference between the top QB (whoever you think that is) and the second best QB (whoever you think that is) was not very large. I would even say that the difference between the top 5 or 6 QBs in the league was not by a lot. If you asked 10 people who they thought was the best QB in the league is, you might get 5 different answers.

I agree with Tbro. Rodgers has played his entire career basically being handicapped by a combination of McCarthy, Thompson (RIP), and Capers. You can’t argue with the SBs that Brady has racked up so good on him but as far as QB talent goes there is nobody better than Rodgers. Greatest and best aren’t always the same thing.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>glenn57 wrote:</div>
i heard he and brady need to hook up for one more touchdown pass to break a tie in that QB and reciever mark to go ahead of Rice and i believe young.

That’s incorrect. Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison have the most hook ups for touchdowns in league history with 114.

Brady and Gronk are at 97. They already have the most TD hook ups together as a QB-TE duo and they are the only duo to have done it on 2 different teams.

Rice and Young did it 92 times. So Brady and Gronk passed them earlier this season.

ok then I’ll stand corrected. Those 2 need 1 more TD connection in the playoffs to be all time leaders.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Speaking of Packer Fans, where’s Sticker been? Anyone talk with him lately?

I’m still kicking, just done playing this game.

moustachesteve wrote:

I agree with Tbro. Rodgers has played his entire career basically being handicapped by a combination of McCarthy, Thompson (RIP), and Capers. You can’t argue with the SBs that Brady has racked up so good on him but as far as QB talent goes there is nobody better than Rodgers. Greatest and best aren’t always the same thing.

Well if you are using an arbitrary best, Manning was better for most of the front half of Rodgers career, Brees was better for most of the middle, and Mahomes is better the last couple years. Rodgers was the best in the league his MVP year, and maybe this year. He is great and a first ballot HOF, but by the metrics they measure QB’s by, he’s another guy in the conversation for 2nd best to Brady of the last 20 years of QB’s, and needs another SB or two to be top ten QB all time.