Go Pack Go!

I just looked at the week 14 schedule. I was aware the Pack will be playing in Detriot. I did not, however, know that it is a Thursday Night Football Game. With Love and the Pack coming on, and the Lions D suffering injuries left and right I think the Pack will win. Things are going to get interesting in the North and NFC in December. I no longer believe the Lions are going to be able to hang on with that nicked-up D. The Pack could potentially hold the #1 Seed.

But then again, so could the Eagles or Vikes.

The Eagles could easily lose 1 game the rest of the way. I think their schedule sets up nicely finishing with the Cowboys and Giants specifically. I’d be shocked to see them not earn the second seed behind either the Vikings or Lions…or maybe pass the NFC North winner.

The Packers just seem too inconsistent (as a fan) and their schedule looks like they could easily lose half their remaining games. I like them as a wildcard team that goes on the road to knock someone off in the first round, but not a chance they make it to the top of the entire NFC standings before the season ends

I am mostly with Bucky for now but that could change if they find a way to win on Thursday.

I read this morning that on thanksgiving MLF earned his 65th regular season win, moving him into 2nd place for wins by a HC in his first six seasons. The only one that was better was George Seifert with 75. The coaches he just passed include holmgren, cowher, and andy reid.

dirtywater wrote:

I read this morning that on thanksgiving MLF earned his 65th regular season win, moving him into 2nd place for wins by a HC in his first six seasons. The only one that was better was George Seifert with 75. The coaches he just passed include holmgren, cowher, and andy reid.

He’s the Ryan Day of the NFL. That record is what happens when you take over a franchise with a HOF QB who wins 13 games a year your first 3 years. MLF has been a .500 coach post-Rodgers until this year. And yes those first 3 year show just how bad Mike McCarthy was…well that and his performance in Dallas since then!

He’s the Ryan Day of the NFL. That record is what happens when you take over a franchise with a HOF QB who wins 13 games a year your first 3 years. MLF has been a .500 coach post-Rodgers until this year.

That same HOF QB went 7-9 2017 and 6-9-1 2018 under McCarthy. I’d say ML had a lot to do with those 13 win seasons. Now, back to back years with the youngest team in the league, and winning three games with your back up QB this season is more than enough to verify he is the real deal when it comes to coaching. He might not have the first place trophy next to his name but his body of work speaks for itself.
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Sorry werm, that’s a terribly lazy argument. Every coach on my list had the benefit of good QB play. Holmgren had Favre, seifert had montana, Reid had a young Mcnabb and now mahomes, etc.

Most guys here say Love is trash, so I guess coach must be doing something right. Can’t have it both ways.

Convenient choice to exclude this season’s record. He’s 16-11 with love as a full time starter and 18-11 overall in the regular season post-rodgers. Not exactly a .500 coach.

dirtywater wrote:

Most guys here say Love is trash

I certainly wouldn’t call him trash. But you cannot deny that he’s regressed either.

If the Packers weren’t 9-3, that would be the number one item being discussed here. A massive offseason contract given out based on such a small sample size that back fired.

He still has time to correct that narrative this season. He did it last year and he is capable of doing it again.

LaFleur has done a good job this season given the injury issues at QB. The timing of those lesser opponents also helped too.

I’m more sold on Lafleur than I am on Love. That’s not to say I’m Anti-Love, but I think Lafleur deserves any credit he gets…and then some. He’s demonstrated that he can win in a lot of ways (HOF QB needing to have his ego managed, young QB with no experience and a no name WR corps, backup QB, different DC’s, etc). Under Lafleur the Packers organization as a whole has managed to stay out of the major negative headlines with no drug busts, female beatdowns, car crashes, 100+mph tickets, etc. The issues they have had with Jaire and Doubs were handled in-house and resulted in key players being benched at his discretion.

When you look at everything collectively – I’d put Lafleur right up with KOC, Dan Campbell, Sean McVay, and DeMeco Ryans as the best young coaches in the league with staying power. I’d bet on these 5 having lasting impacts on their current organizations for the long-haul. They are the next generation of Harbaughs, Tomlins, etc.

dirtywater wrote:

Sorry werm, that’s a terribly lazy argument. Every coach on my list had the benefit of good QB play. Holmgren had Favre, seifert had montana, Reid had a young Mcnabb and now mahomes, etc.

Most guys here say Love is trash, so I guess coach must be doing something right. Can’t have it both ways.

Convenient choice to exclude this season’s record. He’s 16-11 with love as a full time starter and 18-11 overall in the regular season post-rodgers. Not exactly a .500 coach.

You were celebrating his 65th win, so I pointed out MLF also had the benefit of great QB play as he had A-Rodg to start his career winning 39 of those games. And then MLF and Gutey ran A-Rodg out (or vice versa ) by never adding to the offensive talent around Rodgers, and the straw that broke the HOF’s back was drafting a backup RB and Love. Since Rodgers left they went 8-9 and then 9-8, exactly .500. TBD on this year, they could lose out and finish 9-8 again.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>dirtywater wrote:</div>
Most guys here say Love is trash

I certainly wouldn’t call him trash. But you cannot deny that he’s regressed either.

If the Packers weren’t 9-3, that would be the number one item being discussed here. A massive offseason contract given out based on such a small sample size that back fired.

He still has time to correct that narrative this season. He did it last year and he is capable of doing it again.

LaFleur has done a good job this season given the injury issues at QB. The timing of those lesser opponents also helped too.

What backfired?

The team Jordan Love leads is 9-3 and in control of its own playoff destiny with the youngest roster in the league.

He is tied for 6th in the league for TDs thrown at 20 despite missing games.

Are we really citing 10 interceptions as the whole reason his contract was a mistake? Hell, Mahomes has even thrown 11.

Jordan Love is not a sure fire slam dunk, but people thinking the Packers somehow regret his contract right now at this point in time is crazy. I can’t name 10 NFL QBs I’d take over him tomorrow at this point in their careers. He’s not Burrow, Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, etc. I get that. Those guys are once in a generation talents that teams spend decades looking for stumble onto. But given what we’ve seen I wouldn’t hesitate to group Love with Herbert, Hurts, Cousins, Goff, Baker – all guys that can win in the NFL for sure. It’s not as if he’s Deshaun Watson

Bucky you missed my point. I said “if they weren’t 9-3.”

If they were, say 3-9, you’d be singing a different tune on that contract. Right now its not a story because they’re still winning despite his lackluster play. He, Burrow, and Lawrence were the highest paid QBs in the league until Prescott got paid.

Mahomes is not having a very good season. That can’t be argued. But the Chiefs have back to back super bowls and they are 11-1. So his less than stellar play is not a story there either.

Love also hasn’t been healthy since after the bye, and his numbers since then have greatly improved. The knee and groin injuries most certainly plagued his play early in the year.

gimruis wrote:

Bucky you missed my point. I said “if they weren’t 9-3.”

If they were, say 3-9, you’d be singing a different tune on that contract. Right now its not a story because they’re still winning despite his lackluster play. He, Burrow, and Lawrence were the highest paid QBs in the league until Prescott got paid.

Mahomes is not having a very good season. That can’t be argued. But the Chiefs have back to back super bowls and they are 11-1. So his less than stellar play is not a story there either.

In a hard-capped league, maximizing productivity with $$$ spent respective to other teams at positions is key. When you find a “bargain”, you can use the $ elsewhere to field a more talented roster. So far, I’d argue that the earliest years of Love’s contract have the potential to be a steal, verus a “backfire.”

Currently Speaking with QB Contracts and Cap Hits:

Love has the 12th highest QB cap hit in the league for 2024. So far I’d say he’s outplaying that or at least not a bad bargain.

2025 = 16th highest cap hit at QB

2026 = 16th highest cap hit at QB

2027 = 10th highest cap hit at QB

2028 = Highest paid QB in the league if nobody else resigns at a higher number by then.

***These figures will obviously change, but give a vague representation of value at position by year***

IF they were 3-9, it’s highly unlikely Love would have the stats he currently does. You can’t make a logical argument as if his play hasn’t impacted the team’s record. He has won and he has been a key part of some big wins and successful teams early in his career.

Where is the “lackluster” play? He’s thrown 20 TDs in 10 games, is in the top half of the league in all major QB statistics, and has his team in position to make the playoffs. What would it take for the 12th highest paid QB in the league to not be considered “lackluster”? 12-0 with 35TDs?

When you look at everything collectively – I’d put Lafleur right up with KOC, Dan Campbell, Sean McVay, and DeMeco Ryans as the best young coaches in the league with staying power. I’d bet on these 5 having lasting impacts on their current organizations for the long-haul. They are the next generation of Harbaughs, Tomlins, etc.

Yeah I’d agree with that. 3 of them are in the North which really puts more pressure on the Bears and their next hire.
Let’s hope they screw it up.

gimruis wrote:

If they were, say 3-9, you’d be singing a different tune on that contract.

But they’re not??? So why even bring it up

If the Vikings were 3-9 right now do you think Darnold would somehow get a pardon then?? Lol

B-man wrote:

If the Vikings were 3-9 right now do you think Darnold would somehow get a pardon then?? Lol

Absolutely not. Darnold wasn’t signed to a massive long term contract either though. He was signed with the intent of being in MN for one and only one season.

The Vikings have the annointed one in waiting…

buckybadger wrote:

I’m more sold on Lafleur than I am on Love. That’s not to say I’m Anti-Love, but I think Lafleur deserves any credit he gets…and then some. He’s demonstrated that he can win in a lot of ways (HOF QB needing to have his ego managed, young QB with no experience and a no name WR corps, backup QB, different DC’s, etc). Under Lafleur the Packers organization as a whole has managed to stay out of the major negative headlines with no drug busts, female beatdowns, car crashes, 100+mph tickets, etc. The issues they have had with Jaire and Doubs were handled in-house and resulted in key players being benched at his discretion.

When you look at everything collectively – I’d put Lafleur right up with KOC, Dan Campbell, Sean McVay, and DeMeco Ryans as the best young coaches in the league with staying power. I’d bet on these 5 having lasting impacts on their current organizations for the long-haul. They are the next generation of Harbaughs, Tomlins, etc.

It might be a bit early to name DeMeco Ryan as one of the best young coaches only because this is his 2nd year as HC, but is on his way if he continues on the path he has Houston going and unlike KOC he has a win in the playoffs. Agree with McVay and Campbell assessment, but have to say naming KOC as one of the best young coaches is going waaaaay out on a limb. He is a mediocre HC at best. What has he accomplished? Vikings were 7-10 last year and missed the playoffs, and the year before got blown out by the Giants at home in the playoffs. KOC hasn’t won a playoff game, so I think it is premature to name him as one of the best young coaches IMO.

Bucky is spot on with all this and MLF! Grim I think Bucky’s comments are more directed to Bigwerm. Sure I’ll agree with Werm that I wished the Pack would have added weapons for Rodgers in his last years with them but right now Gutey and MLF looking smart as hell for letting Rodgers go.

^KOC went 7-10 using 4 different starting QBs due to injuries. There are dysfunctional teams in the league that can’t win 7 games with “their guy” being healthy the entire season. I’d argue his coaching job last season might be his most impressive thing on his resume.

Obviously it’s just my opinion, but if my favorite team needed a HC to hire and be successful long term (and not retire soon potentially like Reid)…

My short list would be Lafleur, KOC, McVay, Campbell, and Ryans.

buckybadger wrote:

KOC went 7-10 using 4 different starting QBs due to injuries. There are dysfunctional teams in the league that can’t win 7 games with “their guy” being healthy the entire season.

Like MLF who won 8 games in 2022 and 9 in 2023…

buckybadger wrote:

Currently Speaking with QB Contracts and Cap Hits:

Love has the 12th highest QB cap hit in the league for 2024. So far I’d say he’s outplaying that or at least not a bad bargain.

2025 = 16th highest cap hit at QB

2026 = 16th highest cap hit at QB

2027 = 10th highest cap hit at QB

2028 = Highest paid QB in the league if nobody else resigns at a higher number by then.

***These figures will obviously change, but give a vague representation of value at position by year***

Where are you getting your #’s with rankings? There can’t even be that many QB’s with guaranteed money into 2027. They had to pay Love, so I can’t say his contract is good or bad, yet. But it is odd they are taking such a small cap hit early on with such a young (aka cheap) roster, and so much money on the deal ($220M total, with $160M guaranteed). If they decide to move on, they are really going to be cooked.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47621/jordan-love/contract/cap

What were they supposed to do with Love? I think it was smart to lock him up. I’d rather have him than Daniel Jones or Kirk Cousins or a bunch of other quarterbacks making similar money.

KOC is for sure a top 3 coach in the league. One guy who is over rated is McVay, no way I want that guy coaching my team. He almost quit last year to be a TV analyst. I think he knew his sb victory was a one and done.

crawdaddy wrote:

KOC is for sure a top 3 coach in the league. One guy who is over rated is McVay, no way I want that guy coaching my team. He almost quit last year to be a TV analyst. I think he knew his sb victory was a one and done.

That’s hilarious KOC can’t even win a playoff game. The Vikings were 13-4 playing the Giants at 9-8 at home and had their butts handed to them by D Jones

31-24 is getting your butt handed to you? The 2011 NFC title game was a butt handed to you moment.

crawdaddy wrote:

KOC is for sure a top 3 coach in the league. One guy who is over rated is McVay, no way I want that guy coaching my team. He almost quit last year to be a TV analyst. I think he knew his sb victory was a one and done.

that’s still one more than the Vikings have had in 60 years.

BigWerm wrote:

Since Rodgers left they went 8-9 and then 9-8, exactly .500. TBD on this year, they could lose out and finish 9-8 again.

Dog, you might wanna check your history.

The 8-9 2022 season was with rodgers, he started all 17 games. My numbers above are correct. Post-rodgers, MLF’s regular season record as a head coach is 18-11.

Werm. Do you live life with blinders on?

The numbers are literally from the exact same website you were getting your numbers and citing, no lie

“KOC went 7-10 using 4 different starting QBs due to injuries. There are dysfunctional teams in the league that can’t win 7 games with “their guy” being healthy the entire season.”

“Like MLF who won 8 games in 2022 and 9 in 2023…”

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Not quite, Werm.

“Can’t win 7” would equate to 6 or fewer wins.

8 and 9 are both respectively more than 6 or fewer.

Don’t worry. Elementary math combined with a hint of reading comprehension are difficult for tons of people.

dirtywater wrote:

The 8-9 2022 season was with rodgers, he started all 17 games.

Yikes, 8-9 with a HOF QB playing the full season isn’t a feather in MLF is a great coach cap bud.