Rainydaze tip of the week 2-04-09

As we are booking trips for this summer here are a couple things to request from your fishing guide. Typically a guide trip will run 8 hours. In this 8 hour period your guide will work at getting you on the right pattern for that day. On lakes Like Rainy Lake that are loaded with structure be sure to have your map or Gps Mapping device along so your guide can pinpoint other locations that you and your group can focus energies on if “Ma Nature” swings and blows from a different direction. It is very likely the spots you fish with your guide will be locations productive with the prevailing wind that day. 7 similiar spots will have little value to your group should the wind do a 180 on you for the rest of your trip. On lakes on the Borde this is a good possibility. I like to mark up maps with a prevailing wind signal so customers can focus on the W’s for west wind days or E’s for East winds days… Oh some of the E’s may have the local supper club or golf club circled!! LOL!! As many fisherman know the information you receive is often 10 times more important than the big fish you catch that day if you plan on making that lake a fishing destination in the future!! Don’t be afraid to ask your guide for detailed information. He 9 times out of 10 has learned many tricks of the trade by trial and error. Your learning curve on a lake will be heightened if you are a student of the lake!!

Nice tip Daze! I find it interesting that you suggest bringing a GPS with, as I was just looking around and have ventured across more than one guide that openley say GPS units are frowned upon. Right about then I moved on to the next guide I could find.
I figure there were 2 reasons for them not wanting you to have a GPS with.

1) They only took you to “thier Honey hole” and you know they own the water. Hmm I wonder if they blind fold you while traveling form spot to spot?!

2) They had little if anything to teach. They would just take you from spot to spot using only what has worked in the past knowing little as to why. Also I assume they can’t adjust if the situation calls for it.

I figure if you are so afraid that I may ever return to “your” spot you aren’t worth my money. I’m not saying I’m looking for someone to let me mark locations on a GPS to return to, but I do like marking spots that work, so when I do venture out to a new lake/similar lake. I can look back and see what has worked in the past.

I personally think guides should be hired for the learning service. Catching the big ones or bunches is the bonus. Always things to pick up from a good guide, and make your future fishing better. Heck there are even things to pick up from bad guides really like a list of what doesn’t work.

The world famous Laverne Oveson, who at the tender age of 94 just retired from guiding on Rainy and Kabetogama, once told me that he doesn’t care at all if guys bring GPS with them and mark his spots because if you need a GPS to find your way around he already has an advantage on you! He also told me that he doesn’t even use his GPS, the only reason he has one is because his clients expect to see one in the boat….he never even turned it on. But, then he is truly the master!

Up here it isn’t quite so bad, but if you fish the Gulf and bring a GPS on board, you will not make any friends with your guide. In fact, they had a court case a couple years ago, where some people took a portable GPS with them to mark the spots their guide too them fishing. The court eventually ruled that was not part of what they were paying the guide for, and had the guide won his lawsuit against them.

On of the reasons they are so serious about protecting their GPS co-ordinates, is a number of the better guides buy & sink boats & stuff to create their own “honey-hole”. This costs a lot of money & effort, and if the first guy they take there gets the GPS co-ordinates, and then tells his buddies, next thing you know there are dozens of people fishing on the new wreck.

I could not agree more with you on this issue Chris. I have openly invited many, many people to bring along any hand held gps units they like while on a guided fishing trip with me. It is amazing how few people actually do though.

Here on Lake Wisconisn, it certainly isn’t as critical as on larger waters like Rainy, but there are still quite a few mid-lake underwater humps that are not marked on any maps or mapping data cards.

Great tip! Keep em coming.

On a side note, its always fun to mess with people who sneak there hand held gps on board with out me knowing it. Sometimes I find out and have a little fun with it before letting them know its perfectly okay.

I don’t want to speak for all guides on that issue as Rainy Lake is very very vast. 220,000 acres 2500 islands and about 100 boats. Fish here are moving hour to hour and day to day. Hot spots last year might not produce a fish this upcoming summer. There is no substitute for time on the waters your fishing. Water levels,Water temps, prevailing winds, baitfish movements, pressure… are just some of the variables in which keeps people challenged, and at times humbled on this diverse fishery. Do I have secret fishing spots?? Sure!! TONS OF THEM, BUT DON’T TELL!! Do my clients fish them?? ABSOLUTELY!! Do they know which ones are my SECRET BIG FISH PRODUCERS?? I don’t know?? We are very fortunate to be far removed from pressure. My customers don’t pound a spot week in and week out. Typically they are fishing for a weekend, a week or a few times a summer. I try stress the importance of not overworking a hot spot. Truth of the matter is the Pattern is more important than the SPOT. The only thing I ever frown upon is a mass broadcast of a spot in which I’ve shown a customer. If that happens it pressures fish off the spot and undermines my career. That makes me Grumpy!!! LOL! I think I can remember that happening once where I found the whole resort fishing a spot the next week. Most guides want nothing more than customers to catch fish and enjoy the rest of their trip while at the same time thinking “Man I didn’t know that, and I feel like I’m a better angler now!!”. I fully expect to see my groups of fisherman on spots I’ve shown them for the rest of the week their here. In fact I usually boat over to them if I run into them and fill them in on other patterns or hot bites if something has changed. Most of these customers come back year in and year out understanding the benefit of current information on any body of water especially complex fisheries like THE Rainy Lake!! I also like to stress CPR to fisherman. I will be very candid that I am absolutely delighted to see the vast majority of customers being very very conscious of protecting a fishery. Hey most of my clients eat fish as do the Queen and I!! I LOVE a fresh meal or shorelunch. With that being said I’m not a fish hog, and gladly release fish if it is more than we need for our groups meal!!

In closing ask questions while your fishing with your guide. What are you looking for on your graph?? Why not over there? Why leeches… Whatever!! I think you will be pleasantly suprised by the willingness for you guide to help you become more educated on his or her body of water guided on!! The infamous word of wisdom…. Give a man a fish and it will feed him for a day while teaching him to fish will feed a man for life!! Something like that!! You smell what I’m stepping in!!

I would just add to be up front with your guide and ask when booking if it is okay to bring your GPS. After interviewing 20 or so different guides for the creel survey over the last 3 years I can tell you Daze is in a minority of guides on Rainy who are okay with bringing, and especially waypointing their own GPS.

Of course if you book with Daze he’s already answered that for ya!!

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I would just add to be up front with your guide and ask when booking if it is okay to bring your GPS. After interviewing 20 or so different guides for the creel survey over the last 3 years I can tell you Daze is in a minority of guides on Rainy who are okay with bringing, and especially waypointing their own GPS.

Of course if you book with Daze he’s already answered that for ya!!

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I think we already know Chris is unique! Yes, many guides frown on using a GPS. However these guides need to move into the present day of doing business. I will not book a trip with a guide who won’t allow a GPS. Will I pound his spots in the future? No. Fact is I don’t keep fish. Period. I’m booked on a trip with Chris this spring. My intent is to catch some fish, Make Chris run the camera and release everything. Would it be nice to get a trophy for a reproduction? Absolutely! When my day is done Chris will have my money, I will have a lesson on fishing Pike on Rainy. Chris will use my money to live on, I will use his expertise to fish Rainy at other times. Win, win for both of us. I have used other guides on Rainy. I will use more guides in the future. However, the one that doesn’t let me bring a GPS if I choose to (which I don’t bring one, but I always ask)is the guy who won’t get my business.

Many guides still don’t use the Internet. Ever wonder why? Could it be they are afraid of answering the GPS question? I’m sure that’s not the reason but it does make you wonder doesn’t it?

BTW, the time tested answer on why they won’t allow GPS is “I need to make a living and I’ve spent 100’s of hours finding the best spots. I’m not going to give them away.”

Umm, might be true but I’ve never met a guide who would even consider taking you to their top 5 spots, no matter what the price.

OK….Unique….in the “Minority” LOL!! Heck anyone willing to strip to a swimsuit in 30 below windchills and drop a perfect Cannonball in a hole in the ice is definately not following the pack!!

GPS coordinates show where the fish were that day, during that time of year, during that weather/temp/wind/sky conditions. Fish move for various reasons, through out the day, day to day, week to week, season to season. Oxygen levels, food, water temps, ect, all factor in where and what the fish are doing.

Personally I’d rather soak up info that they are showing me or telling me straight from their mouth, like whats going on with the fish lately and whats working and why. That would more useful and important to me then GPS’ing some coordinates. I can use their info and mix it in with what I know about the species of fish I’m after and make my own game plans for the future based on that info.

Chris could have us on some windswept shoreline/structure where the walleyes are gourging on baitfish that day and we hammer the walleyes. The next 3 days of my trip the wind could be coming from a different direction and that piece of shoreline/structure could be useless. But if I payed attention and asked some questions and understood why we were there and what we are doing I could use that info to find a spot very similar on a different part of the lake for that day.

I say it takes confidence for a guide to let you take along gps or give you coordinates. Confident enough to know if some people were in one of their spots they can just go around the corner to another one or a similar piece of structure and produce. Spots are just spots unless your there during the right times. Could be loaded with fish today and no fish tomorrow.

“Windswept structure”
….slow clap

Fishin Guru

You hit the nail on the head buddy!! a couple weeks ago I went out to eat with a group I was guiding when a guy preceded to quiz my customers where they were fishing… He then told them where they should be fishing… When the guy stopped rambling my customers asked why I didn’t stop him and tell him I was their guide Heck your Rainydaze!! LOL!!… I told them never be too proud. Once you think your the smartest, greatest… You will be too full of yourself to be able to learn from someone else. There are LOTS of good sticks on Rainy. Some of my best friends are very very good fisherman. If someone chooses to tell me everything they’ve ever known about walleye fishing trust me I WILL ALWAYS LISTEN!! In fact I’ll likely offer them another cocktail Maybe 99% of the informations is deemed useless, but if you listen close enough you’ll get something out of it that WILL make you a better angler!! Spots are Spots. Even if I’m killing them in a location if I see someone else in the area I’ll head to spot B,C,D,E… Whatever. Rainy is once again very vast. IF you truly understand the producing pattern you will never be caught crying about someone fishing YOUR spot!! LOL!!! Heck for that matter IF someone is in a honey hole for you they likely might not even know it. May not be spot on, or fishing it effectively. I typically am not going to lead on that it has been HOT. I just fish somewhere else. If they lay into them Good For them! Kudos!! They must be IDO members!! More often than not they’ll just troll through, and I’ll pull up later in the day and you guessed it…. “LIGHTS OUT FOR YOU!!” LOL!!

I thought I could sense you were lurking Montucky!!

I was just corrected on another site by another Rainy Lake guide who after getting a call saying he’d read that Rainy guides don’t allow customers to bring their own GPS.

He called other guides and all he talked to do allow their customers to bring and use their own GPS.

Apparently that feeling/policy/trend has changed. The intention of the post was more a matter of ethics so my apologies if it came out differently.

As a client I would ask if it’s okay to bring and use your own GPS and as a guide I would appreciate the question. Guess that’s what I should’ve said originally.

Hmm
Rainy is a different lake than most. RD nailed it “here today gone tomorrow” I have a portable GPS and did not bring it the last two times I hired RD. Not because he forbid it, mostly out of respect because its how he makes his living. The places he took me were easy to find on a map. All except one! I flat out told him that I would be fishing it but if he was on it with a client I would wave and go right on by. The only reason I bought a handheld with the map chip is that I had lots o Cabelas Bucks and had to spend it on something. That and the old man got lost in the fog north of the Causeway and was to lazy to take compass bearings and time notes when the weather was nice to find his way to the cabin in the dark/fog. Technology makes everyone a little lazy!
If I was heading to Rainy for only one week and had to hire a guide for a day to get my bearings I can understand wanting to bring a hand held. IMHO its a crutch. Better off learning patterns than relying on “the fish were here yesterday”
Montucky and I have gone through that more than once. Mooneye turned us on to one spot 5 years ago that has not produced fish since go figure.

Uffda your straight shooter buddy and most certainly honest!! Apparently the information you honestly reported was misinterpreted. Seems most friends would have come to your defense instead of giving you a beat down!! That is sad! I know what you meant. LOL!! Nobody is trying to steer away anyones guide business. Seems reasonably intellingent people MIGHT SOMEDAY figure out Promoting Rainy Lake is good FOR EVERYONE!! YIKES!! Never Never seizes to amaze me!! Fight for a piece of the pie or band together to for a bigger pie. Seems relatively simple to me, but maybe my brain is still thawing from the Polar Plunge with the Weather Channel!! LOL!! Anyway….. How did you end up doing today?? Anything after I ran into you?? Still want to get after those pannies maybe Monday?? OH….DON’T BRING YOUR GPS!! I’VE CHANGED MY MIND!!

What if I went to the nicest restaurant in town and brought my own steaks and asked you to cook them and brought my own wine would you still serve me?????????

All hail Uffda

We love ya Uffda!! You are a great man with the highest marks for integrity!

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What if I went to the nicest restaurant in town and brought my own steaks and asked you to cook them and brought my own wine would you still serve me?????????

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Up here that could probably be arranged…. and I’ll bet it’s been attempted. We’re definitely a different sort!

And thanks for the support guys.