Oh and for all you “INFORMED PEOPLE”.. the union TRIED TO SETTLE THE CONTRACT.. with a pay cut.. under the previous governor.. it was BLOCKED, by a State Rep, who wanted, AND GOT A POSITION WITH THE CURRENT GOVERNOR.. oh and he is only making like something over $100,000 per year.. and he gets to use that figure to retire with..
not self serving, not much..
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and if you want to talk about dividing an office.. THe State Patrol, isn’t going to be subject to this ..meaning that they get all the “current benefits” if not more.. HOWEVER their office staff. the people who make things run.. Guess what .. all their benefits will get cut.. so all those “little people” who you STAND ON EVERY DAY to make yourself LOOK BIG, Yep those guys.. well they are going to get crapped on , just like the rest of us..
Well said. 
finally..maybe you should check the PER DIEUM for each State Representitive.. just the food and travel and what not they get PLUS THEIR SALARY..
oh.. for all you informed people.. ITS MORE THEN MY WIFE MAKES PER YEAR..
just for food and travel and “expenses”..
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Just for the record, I do believe the median wage some of you are referencing, includes all U.W. Prof’s, Chancellors, Deans, Asst. Deans, Provost…..and many, many more high paid positions that most of us average Joe fisherman types will never have access too. And I’m just as sure that most of us couldn’t care less if those people have to pay more.
But this bill also includes a ton of state workers who are no better off than the average worker in the private sector and their median income is considerably less than $53k. I’m sure many of them would also be willing to contribute more to help the state out of this mess. I think what really peaves people is that there was no good will on the Governor’s part what so ever.
If he would have come out and said something like: I only have two weeks to negotiate this contract or else we will have to go the extreme route, then the union most likely would have tried to stall like they always do. But at least he would have made the offer to negotiate. At the very least, he would have been able to say he gave the union a chance and they balked. Instead, our Governor came right out with the nuclear option.
As you can see, that didn’t go over very well.
which is precisely why I mentioned that even though the median wage is more than what most make, the average position does allow for a comfortable lifestyle. By comfortable, I mean that if the fridge is dead empty you and your wife aren’t looking at each other wondering how you are going to afford to run to the grocery store so your kid doesnt have to eat Cheerios for dinner.
Let me also add that I do find it COMPLETELY ridiculous that we pay some of these people as much as we do with taxpayer money when there are so many people struggling to make ends meet. We didnt get in the hole this bad by paying the average worker a decent wage and good benefits, it was done through excessive spending across the boards.
Well said old rat 
I had no idea this would end up being a thread about fishing with Red Herrings.
You guys should have elected a Chris Christie clone.
The core, and I mean the real core of this issue for me is with teachers. About 50 years ago there was a philosophical change made in public schools and religon was removed from the institution. At that time a kid could bring his shotgun to school and put it in his locker so he could go hunt after school. Now that same kid will get expelled for bringing in a butter knife. Instead of learning about ABC’s, Johnny now learns how to install a rubber and Jane learns, well maybe I shouldn’t go there. Drugs, alcohol, sex are all now the “norm”. I have watched in horror as my kids went through public school and the changes it made on them. Thank God this year my 16 year old child is safely at home teaching herself on line. Her grade average went from nearly flunking out to “C”. She is happy not have to deal with high school drama as she puts it. This semester her grades are up to a “B”. And she is doing all self directed, other than a few – “hey Dad, can you help me with this?” So are schools really holding up there end of the bargain. What are the teachers really teaching our kids? As of now these same teachers are having the same high schoolers run wild in demonstration, skipping school, shutting down school. Real role models here. Yet every public school official will tell you how they need more money. The 50+ million school referendum coming in April to Eau Claire is another fine example of how far out of touch the schools are with reality.
if higher wages start droping us with less are in big trouble we will be all the way to the bottom 
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if higher wages start droping us with less are in big trouble we will be all the way to the bottom
??? Put the Budweiser down, take a 2 hour nap and come back and rewrite this post.
So is cutting wages to state employees going to balance the state budget? What effect will it have on the state budget? Sounds like MN is trying to take a different route and just raise taxes on everyone. Raise taxes, cuts wages, isnt it all the same thing? Money out of our pockets.
So what effect are they saying a wage cut would have on the state budget?
From a person that has been living on a fraction of their income for a few years now my take is welcome to reality with the rest of us. Hate to say but things like vacations, sick pay, retirement accounts, health insurance are getting to be more and more luxury items for many Americans.
Once again wonder what effect this will have on your state budget. If it would do nothing more than throw a nickel at a $100 problem then no way. If a person is going to loose income there should be a dame good reason for it.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the issue here is that the governor wants to take away the state employees RIGHT to bargain for benefits.
The issues I have with this policy are:
1) Why not negotiate the benefits to a level that helps the state recover? Why pull their RIGHT to negotiate?
2) This is being done on party lines, the very reason the DEMS took it in the shorts in mid-terms, because they gave us HC reform without bi-partisan support. Why now has the GOP not learned?
3) The 3 unions exempt from this bill were the three unions that donated the most money to Walker’s campaign, far and away. Why exempt any groups? Good for one should be good for all?
This country needs to learn to negotiate legislation and not ram it through when one party has the majority. Until then, we’ll continue to not get along!
ET
Very well said Old Rat!
This is definetely an issue that is hard to get a hold of.
First you have the issue of the foxes in the hen house. Unions like many others contribute huge amounts of money to politicians, who once elected are then the same ones who decide how much of your tax payer dollars are given to governement workers. Seems to be like a giant conflict of interest. Why is this allowed to happen ?
At one time government unions were not allowed collective bargaining, then the state of NY in 1959 opened the flood gates. Even FDR stated that industrial unions have a role to play, but government unions are to be discouraged from having collective bargaining based upon who they are bargaining with ( i.e the government, not a business or corporation )
The 2nd elephant in the room that is manifested by the above being ignored is that state, local and federal governments are now in the same boat as United, GM, and other large corporations that have gone bankrupt. They cannot sustain a defined contribution pension plan that allows retirement at 90 – 95 % of salary forever. Nobody has this in the private sector, and there is no money to payout past agreements signed off by people long ago who failed to realize these kinds of benefits are not sustainable or knew future generations would have to pay the bill, not them.
WI to my knowledge is trying to fix this imbalance. As government workers make up so much of unions now, they know that if one state gets this through, others will follow that have the same problem
I do think our government has an obligation to honor the agreements, but they also need to change going forward benefits that cannot be found anywhere in the public sector or untimately is paying the bill.
Thank you for your time… 
Thank you Scott Walker, and all the fiscally responsible representatives in Wisconsin. These people are not losing jobs, they are not loosing tenure, they are not loosing sick days, they are not losing their pensions, and they are not loosing vacation time. What they have to do is contribute a small amount to their way over the top health care and pension benefits. It is about time that the public sector started to fall in line with what the private sector pays and what we taxpayers can afford. If they don’t like what is left, they can go get a job somewhere else and there will be a thousand lined up to take over for them. I have no sympathy. And yes Wisconsin needs business to feel welcome here and create private sector jobs. This happens through lowering the tax burden on all. There just no money to pay for these platinum-plated benefits. And that is the bottom line.
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Thank you Scott Walker, and all the fiscally responsible representatives in Wisconsin. These people are not losing jobs, they are not loosing tenure, they are not loosing sick days, they are not losing their pensions, and they are not loosing vacation time. What they have to do is contribute a small amount to their way over the top health care and pension benefits. It is about time that the public sector started to fall in line with what the private sector pays and what we taxpayers can afford. If they don’t like what is left, they can go get a job somewhere else and there will be a thousand lined up to take over for them. I have no sympathy. And yes Wisconsin needs business to feel welcome here and create private sector jobs. This happens through lowering the tax burden on all. There just no money to pay for these platinum-plated benefits. And that is the bottom line.
I believe we have a winner! The state and city workers have for too long enjoyed great benefits and now do not want to give any of it up. They should be glad to have health insurance and a pension plan, many in this state do not have either one. The unions have allowed workers with seniority to work all the overtime and holidays during their last few years before retirement to boost their high 3 salary years so that their retirement is way over inflated. Not all state/city workers have the ability to do this but a lot of them do.
Look at the Madison bus driver that made more in overtime than his normal salary. This was done to boost his high 3 and his retirement. The system is flawed and needs to be fixed period.
I feel for the retired people that are on a fixed income and keep having their taxes go up based on what someone says their home is worth. Eau Claire just passed 55 million for a new jail and the school district wants 50 million for repairs. They told us taxes will not go up because the school district just paid off the last 50 million referendum. Sure would be nice to see property taxes go down for once.
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Icenutz, I just can’t lose $200 dollars per check and still support my family.
I understand, so I can afford to loose that money since I pay the taxes that SUPPORT you. Everytime gov`t gives a raise they take away from my family, and what… we can afford it? Our property taxes went up $680 this years %60 of our property taxes goes to the school so $408 was strictly school. And I can afford this? Plus last year our property taxes went up over $457 so in just the last 2 years just the school part went up $682, and that amount is only on the increase not the totall.
Gov`t unions are different then public unions with public I have a choice not to buy there product…Gov`t just holds a gun to my head ( IRS ) so I have no choice.
Dem Senators have arrest warrent issued for there arrest to bring them back to capital reports senators out of state run guys run
what fine examples we are setting, teachers skipping out on their job, politicians skipping out on work, every single one of us would be disciplined or fired if we acted that way in our jobs, dont like your job too bad show up and do it anyway until you find a new one. Cant wait for the first teacher to make a remark to me next time I pull my kids out for a day to go hunting or fishing 
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The core, and I mean the real core of this issue for me is with teachers. About 50 years ago there was a philosophical change made in public schools and religon was removed from the institution. At that time a kid could bring his shotgun to school and put it in his locker so he could go hunt after school. Now that same kid will get expelled for bringing in a butter knife. Instead of learning about ABC’s, Johnny now learns how to install a rubber and Jane learns, well maybe I shouldn’t go there. Drugs, alcohol, sex are all now the “norm”. I have watched in horror as my kids went through public school and the changes it made on them. Thank God this year my 16 year old child is safely at home teaching herself on line. Her grade average went from nearly flunking out to “C”. She is happy not have to deal with high school drama as she puts it. This semester her grades are up to a “B”. And she is doing all self directed, other than a few – “hey Dad, can you help me with this?” So are schools really holding up there end of the bargain. What are the teachers really teaching our kids? As of now these same teachers are having the same high schoolers run wild in demonstration, skipping school, shutting down school. Real role models here. Yet every public school official will tell you how they need more money. The 50+ million school referendum coming in April to Eau Claire is another fine example of how far out of touch the schools are with reality.
My neighbor went to CCD every week and when she was in 9th grade she had a baby boy. Too bad her CCD teachers did not teach her about abstinence! Really… by the way thank you for supporting the public school system and I am glad you were able to point the finger at us. What ever happened to taking responsibility as a parent, but I guess it is easier to blame someone else!
Well, I feel this is just the tip of the iceberg surfacing and we’ll see more to come in the near future.
Interesting to read the opinions, both for and against. I see where many would think that Walker and the rest of the republicans came out too aggressively. But for too long, everyone has said “something” needed to be done….and nothing happened. So now someone forced the issue, and naturally he will get chastised for it. I have been part of major re-structuring in corporations, head count reduction in smaller companies, and numerous budget cuts. Regardless of the size of the company, when change was due, it was dictated to us, and we executed the order. When I was instructed to reduce my head count by 45 people in 15 days, I didn’t sit down with union officials or my director to “discuss” anything. I evaluated skill set and ability and swung the ax. Hurt like hell to let good people go, and it hurt to have my own position eliminated after I let all of them go.
I have faith in Walker to structure change in a manor that we can pay for it. Like any boss, he will make decisions that we agree and disagree with. Naturally, anyone that is “forced” to give something up, will not agree with; or like it. Three years ago, I gave up 25% of my income to help the company out to sustain my job. Two years ago, that was increased to > 45% of my income to help keep a job. Last year, my job was eliminated, and employment for me was non existent after hundreds of resume’s and phone interviews. Over-qualified for anything I could find available. Re-Started my own company up again, and fighting to make my own way. 2010 was less than 15% of my 2006 total income. Next month, my cobra plan is finished and I need t0 decide – No health care, or nearly $1,200.00 per month for our family plan. I don’t get the luxury of “increasing” a budget to cover our household living expenses when the money isn’t there. Why should our government?
No one likes to be dictated change to, and I’m sure many will resent our governor for this. But to sustain our State government, more change will need to happen. I think many more services will need to be cut, and MANY more people will need to be responsible for themselves…..The lists can go on and on. It is sickening to see all the things our government subsidizes, that many of us don’t even use; or are aware of. I read the entire Dodge County Budget for 2011. I was blown away to see how many entries were there for Miscellaneous Inter-Office. If I had submitted a budget for my department with thousands of dollars ( let-a-lone 10’s of thousands), my director would have laughed my rear end right out to the parking lot where I would have been fired.
BTW – I know a lot of teachers and aids sign up for teaching summer school. But what do most teachers do with the remaining 400+ hours that their typical work year is shortened by? I know a few that are in construction and build garages and decks all summer……..I know when I need more money, I need to work more hours, regardless if its a 1700 hour work year or a 3000 hour work year. For all the teachers that will now hate me for stating it, oh well. My wife is in the school systems. She makes about 16K and is not entitled to any benefits. So when it comes to the blues, were producing our own record here……
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Dem Senators have arrest warrent issued for there arrest to bring them back to capital reports senators out of state run guys run
You hanging out at cold budweiser house? 
One thing to remember public employees pay taxes too everyone have a great day
at least we found a replacement for all the football threads 
I say what the governor wants to do is good business. I know retired teachers. They are collecting more than I’ll ever make. They have it made. State workers should get what I get when I retire NOTHING worth wild.
Oh no, not good business at all. Taking all of that money out of the community will hit bankers not as many will be able to afford homes, car lots, boat places (I’d love to get a new boat), hire fishing guides ( I bet if you asked a guide they would tell you they get hired quite a few times by public employees). This economy is only temporary so why make permanent changes to collective bargaining rights? I am not in a union but my salary is set by those negotiations as well. Mower please don’t blame the retired teachers. If you had aimed higher and made good choices you could have made a fortune. Teachers are pretty smart, maybe the ones you know invested wisely. I’ve worked in both private and public jobs and both have stress and the people work hard. I had a water main break in front of my house a couple weeks ago and those cats were there before I knew it was broke had the street torn up the the leak fixed and the road repaired in under 4 hours. The teachers especially needed a union because they were treated terribly in prior to unions. The community needs teachers more than it needs its lawyers. Business grinds to a halt when parents have to watch their kids. They are powerful and god bless them. This guy Walker wants to gut unions plain and simple has nothing to do with the budget bill. Joel is correct too when they trot out that average salary crap. Political appointees make 20 times what I make. I know a hundred union employees and none of them makes more than 40K per year. You can barely pay a mortgage on that in Madison. I hate it when politicians pit us against each other. Public vs private, rural vs city, We are all tax payers. A 7000 dollar tax on public employees seems a bit harsh to me all at once. The richest .01 percent have all the money they wouldn’t even miss it for a second. Raise the taxes on the bankers that got us into this in the first place. Britain did. Why can’t we? Corrections budget in MN is half what it is here. Can’t we find some room there? I’m off my soap box.
mower please
I’m a public employee, I’m very good at what I do, I work extraordinarily hard, and I’m underpaid for my skill set and education. I took a public position at less pay because of job security, benefits, and pension. Take those away, I’ll be forced to take my talents elsewhere, just like many state employees may do if this comes into affect.
I also have almost two kids (one on the way). I shudder at the thought of them being taught by second rate teachers from k-12, and beyond. I want my support and staff of law enforcement and firefighters to be top notch. I want the folks repairing our infrastructure to get it right the first time- My point is that I feel we get better than average service from our state, and we should have to pay for it if we want to keep it. Everyone wants the service, no one wants to pay for it. I’ll bet there’s a bunch of places WI could tighten its belt that doesn’t include reducing quality or quantity of our public works.
I still know a lot of college professors, and not one of them makes more than 45K a year-and that’s with a PhD and tenure. They work more hours, including summer, than most private sector employees I know.
Scott Walker screwed the pooch on this one.
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I’m a public employee, I’m very good at what I do, I work extraordinarily hard, and I’m underpaid for my skill set and education. I took a public position at less pay because of job security, benefits, and pension. Take those away, I’ll be forced to take my talents elsewhere, just like many state employees may do if this comes into affect.
I also have almost two kids (one on the way). I shudder at the thought of them being taught by second rate teachers from k-12, and beyond. I want my support and staff of law enforcement and firefighters to be top notch. I want the folks repairing our infrastructure to get it right the first time- My point is that I feel we get better than average service from our state, and we should have to pay for it if we want to keep it. Everyone wants the service, no one wants to pay for it. I’ll bet there’s a bunch of places WI could tighten its belt that doesn’t include reducing quality or quantity of our public works.
I still know a lot of college professors, and not one of them makes more than 45K a year-and that’s with a PhD and tenure. They work more hours, including summer, than most private sector employees I know.
Scott Walker screwed the pooch on this one.
Good luck to you looking for a job in the private sector to put all you talents to good use. 
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I’m a public employee, I’m very good at what I do, I work extraordinarily hard, and I’m underpaid for my skill set and education. I took a public position at less pay because of job security, benefits, and pension. Take those away, I’ll be forced to take my talents elsewhere, just like many state employees may do if this comes into affect.
I also have almost two kids (one on the way). I shudder at the thought of them being taught by second rate teachers from k-12, and beyond. I want my support and staff of law enforcement and firefighters to be top notch. I want the folks repairing our infrastructure to get it right the first time- My point is that I feel we get better than average service from our state, and we should have to pay for it if we want to keep it. Everyone wants the service, no one wants to pay for it. I’ll bet there’s a bunch of places WI could tighten its belt that doesn’t include reducing quality or quantity of our public works.
I still know a lot of college professors, and not one of them makes more than 45K a year-and that’s with a PhD and tenure. They work more hours, including summer, than most private sector employees I know.
Scott Walker screwed the pooch on this one.
Good luck to you looking for a job in the private sector to put all you talents to good use.
I feel your pain. I have two straight A daughters. Half their teachers are worthless, and the other half are awesome and highly dedicated to what they do. I would love to be able to reward my daughters for their hard work and dedication to doing well in school. But after taking a $70,000 pay cut when I lost my job last year, I found its hard to treat your kids to a luxury item and pay for it with the lint of your pockets……
We all see so much money wasted by government. What will be the turning point to get people off their dead beat 
and get involved and do something???????? Everyone cries and screams when they are directly taking a hit. But if we could fix the other 100 problems, maybe we wouldn’t have to dig into our own pockets so deep
The Words of Martin Niemoller..: an evangelical Pastor during WWII..:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I did not speak out;
As I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I did not speak out;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
As I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
As I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
I am sorry.. but this applies to this situation.. and if you don’t think so.. just sit on your hands.. and wait until it finally affects you…
the unions wanted to negotiate.. THEY WORKED WITHOUT A CONTRACT FOR TWO YEARS.. not because they didn’t want to settle.. because the state didn’t want to settle..
then the state offered to settle the contract under Doyle..
and they were well within their right to do so. Only to be blocked so that ONE PERSON, JUST ONE PERSON, could gain a personal $90,000 A YEAR JOB, with the current administration..
if this was BP or Exxon, or GM.. You all would be screaming at the top of your lungs.. How can you deny a contract so that ONE PERSON, an INSIDE TRADER, will benefit?
but, you guys just sit back. watch all your salaries go down.. even after this “CRISIS” which is all math manufactured by this governor..
because when unions no longer hold up the salary.. YOUR SALARY GOES DOWN AS WELL.. and so do your benefits.
maybe this governor will declare that over time, doesn’t have to be paid.. He could do so..
wait until your family members come to you, and say… We are in bad shape because he wiped out Badger Care.. and guess what, every one of you knows some one on Badger care..
for one Walmart, has most of its employees on Badger care..
my former boss,at the school BUS company, LAIDLAW, tried to tell us that HE GOT US HEALTH CARE..
when what he secured 60 spots in Badger care.. HE TRIED TO PUT US ON WELFARE..
this was LaidLaw, the biggest transportation company in the country.. THE COMPANY THAT BOUGHT GREYHOUND.. the company that OWNS INSURANCE COMPANIES..
but you go ahead.. throw mud at us.. but.. if they can DO IT TO US.. trust me.. He can do it TO YOU..
if you don’t believe me, JUST WAIT..
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