Roundtable Back Porch session

G The way the law was written a few years back said something like…

“once reduced to possession, it couldn’t be returned to the water”.

This was changed the following year for obvious reasons.

With the amount of people I know that do not have access to a boat, ice fishing is their get away time. Some people fish everyday in summer, but in reality I would have to say that there is way more fishing done on the ice in the short period of time the ice allows people to fish.

So I can see the negative effects on two lines through the ice. Heck I’ve done it successfully, and at one point I eve reeled up the second rod because I was sick of getting doubles.

I am mixed about the 2 lines. I support it, wouldn’t say I oppose it. People do it anyway, why not just make it legal, or as someone else stated, make it an option to buy a second license or some kind of stamp allowing you to use two.

As for us cat guys, there is a big difference from you bass, eye, and muskie guys. 99% of the guys I know who fish the river for cats, release 99% of their fish. VERY RARELY do I see or hear of anyone keeping a fish. If they do they are small. The only time I have ever seen a large fish taken out of the river was from people who had know clue what they were doing to that fish. They either take it home, or to the launch to show a bunch of buddies and than simply throw the fish in the water as the current takes the fish away.

I am sure if all the cat guys came out of the wood work and showed numbers as to how many fish they caught on the river in a year you’d probably see a 99% success rate in CPR from most of them. Even more so people like myself who release 100% of my catfish.

I know most or probably of you muskie guys release your fish as well. I bet if fishing for muskie didn’t require skills, and certain techniques most of you would be all for two lines.

I am fine with keeping lakes a 1 line rule. As for the people who are so against this. I know several people who don’t fish walleyes, don’t fish bass, and don’t fish muskie. But never once have they voted against something that is going to benefit that type of angler. I understand catfish is pretty low on the totem pole compared to other species. But to some people, it is their passion, their joy in their life to go out fishing for cats.

Maybe if there is a next meeting about two lines, instead of bashing and not caring about the lower species, maybe suggest rivers and streams be allowed two lines thus still protecting your inland waters with 1 line rule.

From where and how I fish I just dont see how being able to fish 2 lines is going to make that big of impact on the fishery. It would be nice to have the option to fish 2 but in reality about 90% of the time we will still be fishing one. Bobber fishing and dead sticking bait on the bottom is about the only times I could see fishing 2 lines.

So where are the tackle and baits shop owners on this issue? More lines means more tackle and bait being sold.

Do musky fisherman realy think this is going to have a big effect on their fishery? You sure cant cast 2 lines at a time. Most of them seem to be such purists that I cant see them gut hooking fish with live bait. They sure can do that now if they wanted to. Is it going to change if allowed a second line.

Deep hooking bass? Seems to me this is more a issue with using live bait for bass the 2 lines. Why do most bass fisherman use artificial lures? Because live bait kills bass. (This is my thought but then again Im not a bass fisherman.)

The average angler cant handle 2 lines? Some one actually got up and used this as a arguement? If they cant handle 2 lines I bet most wont fish 2 lines.

“using slip bobbers on Mille Lac using two lines will give us dead floating fish like the slot limit does”. Not sure what to say about this one. They seem to like to throw regs around pretty easy on that lake all ready. If it is a problem on Mille lacs reg it.

Even though most of the time I still wouldnt use 2 lines Im all for it and would like the option.

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For the people that don’t fish these lakes that don’t see natural reproduction, it’s a waste of money. If we lived on that lake, I’m guessing we wouldn’t see it that way.

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And I am guessing that those people can pool their own money and stock the lake. It is a waste of money and resources. If a lake can’t sustain itself with natural reproduction for a species, then it should not be managed for that species.

If this and other conversations are heard in the MN Legislature you can sign up for e-mail alerts at this website. One of the first things I learned was that it is usually a small group of people who end up making the most difference.

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/list/join.asp?listname=env_nat_p&comm=87007

Here is the URL for the Senate, but you need to go in and select the Environment and natural Resources committee.

http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/schedule/subscribe.php

So what you are saying, is catfishers want 2 lines, so they can catch more fish, only to release them anyways ??? From what I am reading, most CPR folks want 2 lines, so they can CPR more fish ??? Guys who fish to actually compete the cylce, catch, clean, eat…then release want 1 line, because they believe CPR hurts the fishery, more than realized and adding a 2nd line, will up the mortality rates.

big G

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So what you are saying, is catfishers want 2 lines, so they can catch more fish, only to release them anyways ??? From what I am reading, most CPR folks want 2 lines, so they can CPR more fish ??? Guys who fish to actually compete the cylce, catch, clean, eat…then release want 1 line, because they believe CPR hurts the fishery, more than realized and adding a 2nd line, will up the mortality rates.

big G

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If you CPR’d a bit more there wouldn’t be a need to stock fish in lakes. The DNR is battling a never ending battle because people do not CPR. They cannot keep up to the pressure lakes get from all the people over fishing.

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Guys who fish to actually compete the cylce, catch, clean, eat…then release want 1 line, because they believe CPR hurts the fishery, more than realized.

big G

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I am curious how me catching a fish and releasing it is hurting that fish more than you catching it , taking it home and eating it. The fish I released will live another day, will make someone else day when they catch and release the fish as well. The fish you caught is going through the bowels of death, is probably immature and incapable of reproducing yet thus hurting the fisheries even more.

why not just make it legal, or as someone else stated, make it an option to buy a second license or some kind of stamp allowing you to use two.

Would this cause more issues for our wardens? Would they start checking every person they see fishing 2 lines. Could possibly end up wasting a lot of time for them. Just a thought.

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Why do most bass fisherman use artificial lures? Because live bait kills bass. (This is my thought but then again Im not a bass fisherman.)

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I think bass guys use artificials for the challenge. For me, that is kind of what bass fishing is all about. That and the constantly being active. To me catching a bass on livebait isn’t the smae. I actually have been disappointed while pike fishing when I caught a large largemouth.

Deep hooking is a concern even with some artificials, especially today’s plastics. I’ve set the hook on a texas rigged worm at the first tick of my line and still gut hooked them. Today’s plastics are almost to natural.

I actually have been having more misfortune lately with hooking bass in the eye. I did it 2 times in a rows last year. Pissed me right the hell off having to return a fish back with one eye.

Ok, back on topic.

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Guys who fish to actually compete the cylce, catch, clean, eat…then release want 1 line, because they believe CPR hurts the fishery, more than realized.

big G

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I am curious how me catching a fish and releasing it is hurting that fish more than you catching it , taking it home and eating it. The fish I released will live another day, will make someone else day when they catch and release the fish as well. The fish you caught is going through the bowels of death, is probably immature and incapable of reproducing yet thus hurting the fisheries even more.

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1 scenario would be…..a angler going out, catching 4 walleyes and heading in with his limit = 4 dead eyes…. next guy catches 50 walleyes, 5 are gut hooked, 26 were pulled from 30′ of water quickly, 7 were hollywood stars (posed for multiple pics) of them 7 , 3 hit the carpet …. all are released…. did they all make it ??? Studies say no….

If you haven’t seen the above scenario, you need to get out more….

big G

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Would this cause more issues for our wardens? Would they start checking every person they see fishing 2 lines. Could possibly end up wasting a lot of time for them. Just a thought.

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That is a good thought, but is it safe to say that if a CO sees a guy fishing, he can assume he has a fishing license? No, the only real way to know is to check. Would that be a waste of a time for a CO to stop at every boat to see if that person has a fishing license?

No, that is their job. They should be checking every boat that is fishing.

Does a cop stop every car to make sure the driver has a drivers license because the cop sees someone driving that car?

I see a simple way to see if it would be an issue. Allow it for trolling only at first. Trolled lures typically do not get ingested as deeply and would not induce increased hooking mortality. And as Mike W said, if you have special concerns for certain bodies of water (Like Corking on Mille Lacs) than address it individually.

1 scenario would be…..a angler going out, catching 4 walleyes and heading in with his limit = 4 dead eyes…. next guy catches 50 walleyes, 5 are gut hooked, 26 were pulled from 30′ of water quickly, 7 were hollywood stars (posed for multiple pics) of them 7 , 3 hit the carpet …. all are released…. did they all make it ??? Studies say no….

If you haven’t seen the above scenario, you need to get out more….

big G

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Well the likely hood of your numbers are probably pretty far off. And in the same aspect, I bet you, and several others wouldn’t go out and catch four walleyes and turn and head in. I have a feeling you’d keep fishing, or target other species.

As for gut hooking a walleye, I think the last time I gut hooked a walleye was maybe in 5th grade? I make sure my fish are released properly, I caught a bunch of walleyes this year on the river, and every one was hooked properly and released properly.

If that fish did, in fact kick the bucket I would be bringing that fish home.

Most of the cat guys use different hooks than normal that allow better hook sets and is safer for the fish. I use circle hooks, do some research and see what the mortality rate of fish are. Not to mention if a circle hook does get in the gut of a fish it can be pulled out with out harming the fish.

You may be the next coming of the Ultimate Angler….. but not everybody is…. the 2 line rule cannot be written for perfectionists only…. I have seen the masses…

big G

While I have been trying to just post the details of the Roundtable conversation, I thought for the purposes of total disclosure I’d post my comments made there.

Last spring up on my favorite bass fishing beaver dam, two guys showed up with slip bobbers and leechs to catch bass. I watched them continually have gut hooked fish. They simply pulled the hooks out with brute force, no needle nose or line cutting. So, after seeing this about 5 times, I went over and offered to show them some techniques for gullet hooked fish. I can’t repeat their response on this board.

So, my comment on 2L at the Roundtable was: if you want to fish with two lines, take a Kid with you.

Two methods, use the deep hooked removal method shown here:
http://www.in-fisherman.com/content/through-gill-hook-removal

Or if need be, leave the hook in but make sure you leave at least a foot of line attached, as this will pull the shank of the hook to one side and the fish will still be able to feed.

Post a realistic argument, and id maybe believe you.

Going out to catch 4 walleyes and than going on. On certain days I could catch 4 eyes in under 10 minutes. Are you really gonna launch your boat, fish for 10 minutes and than go home and eat? Most likely you are spending the day out there, putting fish in your live well, and than dumping one back in here and there so you can continue to fish.

How is that different than me catching a fish and releasing it right away.

again, if you can go out and catch 4 eaters in 10 minutes, consistently(I know it happens sometimes) then you are the next coming I’d suggest you use a plain hook, no bait in the future… it’s too easy and 2 lines would cut your time down to 5 minutes

big G

Good post Buzz and the link is good info.

The question that keeps popping up in my mind is…

Should be be managing our resources for “one offs”. I’ve seen people winter “fishing” for wintering cats. Yet because snagging isn’t allowed, we won’t close the season on them to protect them in the winter months.

Many people fish in the scour hole (30 to 50 fow) on pool 4 releasing too 10-12 inch saugers that end up being eagle food. Yet that area isn’t closed.

I think this is where education comes in and I applaud you for trying to talk to those fishermen. Most would not have attempted this.

Guess I must have good skills than. This summer I was catching multiple eaters in a short amount of time.

This is the problem with talking to the different groups, everyone is one sided. I see why certain groups do not want things in effect. But in question to the cat guys, when has anyone argued about an advancement to benefit other species other than cats? I can’t think of much. I will support the muskie fisherman, I will support the walleye guys, even the bass guys even though I rarely fish for those said species.

We are ALL in this together, we shouldn’t be segregating by species, we should be supporting each other in whatever advancements we can get. Instead of saying no immediately, weigh the options on what we can do to compromise the situation.

Another thing is everyone should put these different site politics on hold at least for a little bit and band together and get things done right. After that go back to being political.

I have no problem with 2 lines for catfishing, if it can be supported. I admit, I know nothing about cats, so I have no opinion on it. I also would not have a problem with trolling with 2 lines… but carte blanche… thats an issue. I also believe a fee should be attached, to use 2 lines. Some will take advantage of it, some won’t, make it a choice. The fee to be used for advancement of fishing and policing of policies.

big G

Well BK, my take is that first; we need to manage fisheries for the future, while ensuring that the rich tradition of angling stays a part of our culture. Most of us have grown up with fishing being part of our lives. Soon however this won’t be as likely in the future. 4 out of 5 voters don’t fish. Habitat, AIS, public access loom larger then 2line, seasons, culling or bag limits. I want Sportfishing regs that keep the sport vital and viable. Fisheries management professionals need to first protect the resource and then try to keep good fishing for the average angler. A one size fits all approach while as much of curse to folks like us, is an advantage when dealing with the diversity of issues.

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I have no problem with 2 lines for catfishing, if it can be supported. I admit, I know nothing about cats, so I have no opinion on it. I also would not have a problem with trolling with 2 lines… but carte blanche… thats an issue. I also believe a fee should be attached, to use 2 lines. Some will take advantage of it, some won’t, make it a choice. The fee to be used for advancement of fishing and policing of policies.

big G

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I agree completely. if it can be supported put a fee on it. an additional license even. Like I said I don’t mind it, i might not even use to, but I still support it.

4 out of 5 voters don’t fish.

Not sure if I would take that as doom and gloom for our favorite pastime. So 20% of Minnesotans fish. That sounds pretty good to me. What other recreational activities do %20 of Minnesotans partake in? Drinking comes to mind and I bet many of them are doing it with a fishing pole in the other hand.

Those numbers sure dont mean that 4 out of 5 Minnesotans are against fishing. I would bet that even so they do not partake many of them still support fishing. They just chose to do something else.

Im all for 2 lines to. Up all fishing license fees to cover the additional harvest and mortality that may take place. Minnesotans need more work anyways. No additional stamps or licenses needed for two lines just a flat across the board fee increase. Use special regs where needed on certain bodies of water.

Golf has to be a greater % or the closest 2nd.

I bet they are not even close to the numbers that fish. How many golf courses in mn compared to lake and river?

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More than 733,000 Minnesotans play golf, according to a 2004 NGF report.

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2.4 billion to the economy in 2007.

Data came from ExploreMN’s website.

Anyone have the fishing numbers handy?

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I bet they are not even close to the numbers that fish. How many golf courses in mn compared to lake and river?

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Must never have tried for a tee time on sunday morning…:)

A quick check shows about 600 golf courses in Minn..fwiw

Al