Shocked!………Indoor vs Outdoor

James, do you think 10,000 people from DALLAS would have came to MPLS in January and dropped a bunch of cash, if not for the playoff game ??? Seriously ??? Do you think another 20,000 or so Outstate people would have came to MPLS and dropped a bunch of cash, if not for the Viking playoff game ??? I would take the stuff this Baade or whatever says with a grain of salt… he definitely got cut from the team in HS…. Also they talk about the money generated by the SB being over inflated….. how much is a 30 second spot during the Game, as opposed to the following sunday at the same time ???? There is a draw, it cannot be denied.

big G

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Target Field….
TCF Bank Stadium….
Excel Energy Center….

All examples of succesful Stadiums

The Vikings are not going anywhere

Lets get back to fishing and let this one lay until Febuary

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Bad examples Jeff…………..

Target Field is used 81 dates by MLB, not 10 dates like the NFL. Target Field cost the public roughly $355 million not the $750 million plus the Vikings stadium will cost.

TCF Bank is bleeding money. It was budgeted with beer & liquor sales it can’t have and a near full stadium which it doesn’t get.

Excel is a 18,000 seat arena that is used for 40+ hockey dates plus many high school events. Property taxes in St. Paul have also gone up since it was built. Is this because of the Excel? I don’t really know.

Roof or no roof is the question.

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James, do you think 10,000 people from DALLAS would have came to MPLS in January and dropped a bunch of cash, if not for the playoff game ??? Seriously ??? Do you think another 20,000 or so Outstate people would have came to MPLS and dropped a bunch of cash, if not for the Viking playoff game ??? I would take the stuff this Baade or whatever says with a grain of salt… he definitely got cut from the team in HS…. Also they talk about the money generated by the SB being over inflated….. how much is a 30 second spot during the Game, as opposed to the following sunday at the same time ???? There is a draw, it cannot be denied.

big G

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If you did some reading you’d find lots of information about the financial windfall a super bowl represents. It is very short lived. And since it is never a guarantee… financial decisions can’t be based on it.

Baade is only one of many, many economists that have published on this subject. The vast majority seem to point in the same direction.

Civic pride is a reason to build a football team a stadium. Profit doesn’t look to be.

I’ll answer the question asked,

Open Air – Outdoor football. The better teams in the league year in year out play outdoors. And many in northern climates.

ET

Never said anyone should stop building. My point is if you want a new building pay for it yourself. There’s many business owners in the metro area that are paying for their own space; nobody foot the bill for their buildings and they add significantly to the local economy. Why don’t they deserve tax-payer funding?

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Never said anyone should stop building. My point is if you want a new building pay for it yourself. There’s many business owners in the metro area that are paying for their own space; nobody foot the bill for their buildings and they add significantly to the local economy. Why don’t they deserve tax-payer funding?

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I agree with your basic theme they should foot most of the bill or share profits. However, I wonder how many tax breaks Best Buy got from Richfield and Hennepin county in order to build there?

BTW, I’m voting for a open air football with a sliding roof so the venue can be used year round.

Brian

All the stadiums have been given pretty good reviews by anyone who has been to them.

The problem with TFC Bank is brought on by the university and its policy reguarding sales of alchol.

Bad policy in my opinion

The stadium is a Gem!!

I am in the opion that the vikings will have a new stadium built here, the only debate is how much the state is willing to pony up if they want a domed stadium.

Open air or a Dome? I would choose a retractable roof stadium. It would be a multiple use facility that would benifit Minnesota.

However as I have expressed before, this would put the largest portion of the bill in the hands of Minnesotans.

It would require a creative financing plan, but it can be done.

The perfect storm is in place to do it!

If a retractable roof puts most the bill on us, then they should work out a big time fee for any event that uses it. Have they discussed any payouts back to the state if we put any money toward it? Are the Vikes not talking loan but just all straight up subsidies?

Can’t argue the quality of the stadiums. It’s just that they are not all successful.

There is no funding idea’s in place or on the table that do not include the public paying for 70% of the stadium. If anybody thinks gambling is the answer you have a better chance of hitting the lottery and building it yourself.

Why don’t people understand that if a stadium was viable financially that the owners or NFL would own all the stadiums?

Back on point…………I think it needs to be a retractable roof or dome. Open air, while it might be nice every 27 years, will be sitting at 60% capacity any time the team isn’t in the title chase. We must remember Ziggy will want 70,000+ plus seats and the suites. That’s a bunch of butts willing to freeze in December and January.

I’m against a retractable roof stadium. Retractable for football means they’ll close it for half the games. If that’s the case, why not make it a permanent roof?

Open air, all weather conditions – doesn’t matter! No roof! If we want a football stadium, let’s build a football stadium, not a stadium for concerts and home & garden shows!!

Concerts could be held here in June – August (open air) without affecting the playing field. Not so at Target Field where a concert would have to fit in during a road trip and hope the damage could be undone within a week.

I’m with Ziggy, open air!!!!

ET

Eric, I get the romance of a open air stadium. In fact I’ll never go no matter what they build so I guess I don’t care. But the most bang for the buck and the cost to the tax payers kinda steers it towards a roofed stadium don’t you think?

When the Vikings played in TCF with 64,000 season tickets they still were at a estimated 35,000 for people in a 50,000 seat stadium that showed up. This was for a novelty of having not had a outdoor game in 27 years. Against a division rival! On a Monday night.
How many people will show up in mid January against the Dolphins if the Vikings have a 4-12 record at the time? 18 game schedule will push the regular season and play-offs well into January.

If people want outdoor football they need to buy season tickets to the Gophers, plenty of room there.

I hate to give any props to the wicked neighbors to our East, but pose the question to the Green and Gold fans as to how many people will show up to a game in Mid-January when the team is 4-12?

Answer – it will be a full house.

Viking fans (myself included) have grown soft the last 27 years playing inside. Now, no one wants to go in there for a game, can’t stand the place. No atmosphere inside or outside.

I like Ziggy’s proposal of a stadium up in Blaine/Lino Lakes as we can build it right, put in the infrastructure to support effecient travel times, and put in some atmosphere (tailgating areas, restaurants, shops, etc).

Downtown can’t support that.

Open air, grass, and all weather conditions!!

ET

Last “Northern” city to build a stadium was Detroit, dome and Cleveland, open air.

Green Bay and Chicago both remodeled existing stadiums. Like I said, makes no difference to me, just wanted other peoples opinions.

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I like Ziggy’s proposal of a stadium up in Blaine/Lino Lakes as we can build it right, put in the infrastructure to support effecient travel times, and put in some atmosphere (tailgating areas, restaurants, shops, etc).

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That’s an old idea though. Haven’t they already built stuff where he wanted to build the complex in Lino/Blaine? And good luck with people from the southern metro going. They kind of have a view of the northern suburbs being a bunch of hicks.

I’ll speak for the 40 thousand plus of us who attended the Bears vs Vikes Monday night game at TCF Bank stadium!

OPEN AIR and first come first serve seating!…

What we had there was 40 thousand people who wanted to be there not this corporate, softy, sittin on your arse pansy style of the Metro-Dump we’ve come accustomed to……..

2nd choice would be retractable roof but doubtful either of my choices will happen!

I did read ALOT James, from the links you posted. Seems the same characters/opponents keep popping up… but who is disputing that the Vikings brought 13 million, to the area, for 1 playoff game against Dallas…the answer is nobody. It happened. Is this 1 game an anomaly ? I don’t think so… and I can guarantee you, that cash would NOT have been spent in MPLS on other things, sure some of the local cash would have, but not the out of state and outstate cash. I didn’t say that building a stadium will provide a windfall of cash, or that it wouldn’t cost anything ? But some act like they are writing a check to Ziggy and getting nothing in return. I am sure I helped pay to build bridges/roads and will never use them, is that fair ?

big G

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And good luck with people from the southern metro going. They kind of have a view of the northern suburbs being a bunch of hicks.

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This is more of the same fan apathy! If you’re a fan, you could care less where the stadium is physically. If we build it right, all purple fans will want a shot at just being there. Any game, any time of the year.
Right now, most fans would rather not go to the game due to no atmosphere, poor parking, congested roads, and one boring building where they pump in crowd noise.

ET

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I’ll speak for the 40 thousand plus of us who attended the Bears vs Vikes Monday night game at TCF Bank stadium!

OPEN AIR and first come first serve seating!…

What we had there was 40 thousand people who wanted to be there not this corporate, softy, sittin on your arse pansy style of the Metro-Dump we’ve come accustomed to……..

2nd choice would be retractable roof but doubtful either of my choices will happen!

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Let me speak for 100’s of thousands watching on TV.

You couldn’t fill the stadium, only a 50,000 seat stadium.
You won’t have first come first serve seating in a new stadium.
The majority of those tickets were not used by the name of the people holding the tickets. They were given to family, friends, employee’s. This was because it was outdoors and going to be cold.

1/3 of the people there were there to drink and look like fools. Which they succedded in doing.

The pansy [censored] as you say are the guys PAYING for the tickets.

Like I said, I’m not going anyway so they can build what they want. Just don’t try and paint a picture nobody will see.

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And good luck with people from the southern metro going. They kind of have a view of the northern suburbs being a bunch of hicks.

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This is more of the same fan apathy! If you’re a fan, you could care less where the stadium is physically. If we build it right, all purple fans will want a shot at just being there. Any game, any time of the year.
Right now, most fans would rather not go to the game due to no atmosphere, poor parking, congested roads, and one boring building where they pump in crowd noise.

ET

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That was tongue-in-cheek, but I think it is hilarious as someone who grew up in Fridley who has met a lot of people from the SW suburbs in his adult life. It is really funny if you mention anything about Blaine.

Recently I was at a bar and overheard the bar keep talking about another location in Blaine. It was hilarious to hear the response from the patrons asking about other locations where they could use their club card for the bar. “Blaine, like I am ever going to be by there”.

My take is a bit different. Historically, no stadium EVER built was funded without some burden on the fans who wanted a team in their home town. I thought when the North Stars went to Dallas that I’d maintain some interest and keep rooting for them but it hasn’t happened. Losing home teams loses that community flare and spirit. The “romance” is gone. Did MN maintain an interest in the Lakers? The North Stars (or “Stars”)? Bottomline, this is the way it’s always been and the way it’s always going to be. Therefore, take some ownership in it, get it built before the price goes up another 200million, and keep the home team. Believe me, if the Vikes were lost, we’d lose our interest in them because it would no longer involve “us”.

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I’ll speak for the 40 thousand plus of us who attended the Bears vs Vikes Monday night game at TCF Bank stadium!

OPEN AIR and first come first serve seating!…

What we had there was 40 thousand people who wanted to be there not this corporate, softy, sittin on your arse pansy style of the Metro-Dump we’ve come accustomed to……..

2nd choice would be retractable roof but doubtful either of my choices will happen!

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Let me speak for 100’s of thousands watching on TV.

You couldn’t fill the stadium, only a 50,000 seat stadium.
You won’t have first come first serve seating in a new stadium.
The majority of those tickets were not used by the name of the people holding the tickets. They were given to family, friends, employee’s. This was because it was outdoors and going to be cold.

1/3 of the people there were there to drink and look like fools. Which they succedded in doing.

The pansy [censored] as you say are the guys PAYING for the tickets.

Like I said, I’m not going anyway so they can build what they want. Just don’t try and paint a picture nobody will see.

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I was also there and agree 100% with everything said in the first quote…you had FANS there and if the roads had not been the way they were…well you would have had 50,000 people there PLUS people waiting to be let it plain and simple……..with travel the way it was do you honestly expect people driving 3+ hours away to come?

The only plus I will say with an indoor stadium is the number of days the dome is/was being used for other events such as college baseball ect. ect.
As far as football is concerned bring on the open air stadium and leave the coorperate chit at home and make it what the Cheeseheads have! Those fans are true fans and make every game a blast and not a who can announce like PA or whatver crap the dome has when i go get more beer or to the bathroom during games…and yes i do attend 4+ games a year.

I disagree with your thought process on this one game Brian. As a season ticket holder(technically my dad is, I handle all the transactions for the tickets), I was not guaranteed a spot to sit, even with a ticket in my hand. If I did get in(which I suspected I would), nothing guaranteed me a 4th row upper deck seat like I have in the dumpy dome. Do I wish I would have went. Ya, a little. The weather and booze were the last things in my decision making process. Location, traffic, family were the for runners why this season ticket holder didn’t go.

The good news is we will get plenty more opportunities while the new stadium is being built.

I would love to be proven wrong on a open air stadium. I just don’t see the fan base continuing to grow. Look at the TCF Bank. Losing team in a 2 year old stadium and they can’t fill it up. Losing team in the Ex and fewer and fewer people showing up. Shoot a gun in Target Center and you most likely wouldn’t hit anybody. Target field is full as long as they don’t start winning 70 games a year again.
Make the Vikings stadium outdoor with 75,000 seats. Make it cold. Make it snowy, make it expensive (ticket prices are going to climb. Ask the Twins season ticket holders) I just don’t see them filling the place if they aren’t in 1st. place all year or at least contending.

We are a society of front runners. And we have real comfortable recliners with huge High Def TVs. and the hot dogs aren’t $6.50 bucks.

I just don’t see how you generate enough revenue to pay the debt service and maintenance on this place.

Indoor or outdoor makes no difference. I don’t see anybody that counts asking our opinion.

I was at the Packer bear game this weekend and wouldn’t have it any other way than outdoor, sure it is possiable to have rain or snow but what the heck it’s FOOTBALL. My beer was freezing walking around in the parking lot but the wife and I had the right clothes on and it was GREAT.

I would have no problem showing up in MN for a Pack Queens game in 10 degree weather and paying $10 bucks for a hotdawg as long as I can get in with a bag of schnaaps. I’d rather do this and drive 5 1/2 hrs each way than sit on my couch critizing some one who seems to be having fun. I guees if everyone saw things the way Brian does then just sit on your hands.

Tru Dat!

Pardon my opinion.

I was agreeing with your statement about no one who cares is asking our opinion.

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I was agreeing with your statement about no one who cares is asking our opinion.

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Well then, we are both right!

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I was agreeing with your statement about no one who cares is asking our opinion.

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Well then, we are both right!

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maybe that’s the problem, your leadership is left!