Flu shot – might wanna get one

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Just in case some people thing I’m selling snake oil and that article isn’t enough, here’s a recent study from the New England Journal of Medicine, which is a pretty authoritative source. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0906453

From the report:
“Vaccination with recent seasonal nonadjuvanted or adjuvanted influenza vaccines induced little or no cross-reactive antibody response to 2009 H1N1 in any age group. Persons under the age of 30 years had little evidence of cross-reactive antibodies to the pandemic virus. However, a proportion of older adults had preexisting cross-reactive antibodies.”

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I didn’t read the article, but this quote proves nothing… You are taking a quote that says the “regular” vaccine from last year doesn’t cover H1N1, and inferring that because of this reason the vaccine is total garbage… Everyone already knew that the H1N1 strain reared its head late in the year… Making it not possible to include that strain in the original “regular” vaccine. This is just stating what we already knew. OF COURSE the “regular” vaccine didn’t treat H1N1….. – IT WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO!… Which is why they came out with the separate H1N1 vaccine to cover that nasty little variation of the bug. I know a few friends and friend’s kids who nearly died last year due to it… Imagine sitting in a hospital, having to question whether or not you are going to have to bury your 4 year old in a few days, depending on how “the flu” treats him…I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone.

Just read the article. Typical “anti”/uninformed tactic to take a trusted source like the NEJM and find a quote that suits your needs, then use it way out of context.

The article was simply pointing out that younger patients most likely haven’t had exposure to this strain in the past. Older patients probably had conferred immunity due to past vaccines or possibly “pandemics”… All the article was actually doing was studying how effective the “regular” 2009 vaccine was against this newcomer strain of the H1N1 flu bug. (and/or studying if past vaccines or exposure conferred immunity against this year’s H1N1…) (Each year, the vaccine is manufactured to be effective against the most common and/or problematic strains around – yes, its a “best educated guess”, but it’s waaay better than nothing as your trusted NEJM recommends (see below). They concluded that the “regular” vaccination that was already in production wouldn’t be sufficient to confer immunity agains the H1N1 bug. (i.e., the H1N1 strain showed up too late to be included this version in the vaccine).

A better quote from the same article: “It remains clear that optimal protection against 2009 H1N1 in persons of all ages will be achieved with the development of a strain-specific pandemic vaccine.”

They recommended making another H1N1 specific vaccine and immunizing “persons of all ages” for OPTIMAL PROTECTION. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID LAST YEAR. They developed the H1N1 vaccine in addition to the regular vaccine to cover the gaps that had recently been studied.

And since you must have put your faith in this NEJM article, I assume that you got your H1N1 shot last year… Right??????? I didn’t see any NEJM recommendations for skipping the vaccine for those people gorging on Vitamin D…

Although…. I could be wrong….

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And if you don’t get the flu shot, then the doctors don’t get paid…, and then the drug companies don’t get paid, and then they can’t wine and dine the doctors to write more rx’s…thats bit of an exaggerated example…but you get the picture.

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Believe me, we make much more money on our in-patient flu victims with secondary pneumonia that stay with us for weeks or months.

Not to mention if you have medical coverage, its generally already paid for. I have never had to pay one additional cent for a shot ever. So, if you have coverage and don’t get the shot, you paid for it and never used it.

-J.

BTW, here are the normal symptoms of the influenza virus from the CDC…. Most notably, influenza is RESPIRATORY ILLNESS predominantly. It is NOT generally associated with vomiting/diarrhea…

For those of you saying you got the flu vaccine X number of years ago, then promptly got “the flu” you more than likely caught some GI bug or other virus and NOT the influenza virus, unless otherwise medically tested/proven. Most people who get a GI virus mistakenly call it “the flu”. GI bugs are usually a nuisance, but are not influenza. True influenza can be rough at best and deadly at worst…

If you DON’T get the vaccine, but DO get the influenza virus, you are doing that much more to propagate and pass the illness to family, friends, etc…

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/symptoms.htm

Flu Symptoms & Severity
Influenza Symptoms

Influenza (also known as the flu) is a contagious respiratory illness caused by flu viruses. It can cause mild to severe illness, and at times can lead to death. The flu is different from a cold. The flu usually comes on suddenly. People who have the flu often feel some or all of these symptoms:

* Fever* or feeling feverish/chills
* Cough
* Sore throat
* Runny or stuffy nose
* Muscle or body aches
* Headaches
* Fatigue (tiredness)
* Some people may have vomiting and diarrhea, though this is more common in children than adults.

* It’s important to note that not everyone with flu will have a fever.

Wise words Woodwalleye. I had a stem cell transplant 4 years ago and had to live like the “bubble boy” for a while. Getting and passing on the flu can really hurt other folks. The Mayo always recommends the flu shot to me and my family.

Research the facts please…this is the only article I will post from “my side of the fence”…

link…

Luke – I know there are different ideas about the flu shot and other vacinations, but when the Mayo doctor who saved my life gives me a recommendation I take it. Sharing different perspectives is one of the best things about living in the good old USA!

no problem here! I wasn’t directly stating my reply to you, just adding a link!

All cool with me. Life is good, love the people God puts in your path.

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Just in case some people thing I’m selling snake oil and that article isn’t enough, here’s a recent study from the New England Journal of Medicine, which is a pretty authoritative source. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0906453

From the report:

“Vaccination with recent seasonal nonadjuvanted or adjuvanted influenza vaccines induced little or no cross-reactive antibody response to 2009 H1N1 in any age group. Persons under the age of 30 years had little evidence of cross-reactive antibodies to the pandemic virus. However, a proportion of older adults had preexisting cross-reactive antibodies.”

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I didn’t read the article, but this quote proves nothing… You are taking a quote that says the “regular” vaccine from last year doesn’t cover H1N1, and inferring that because of this reason the vaccine is total garbage… Everyone already knew that the H1N1 strain reared its head late in the year… Making it not possible to include that strain in the original “regular” vaccine. This is just stating what we already knew. OF COURSE the “regular” vaccine didn’t treat H1N1….. – IT WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO!… Which is why they came out with the separate H1N1 vaccine to cover that nasty little variation of the bug. I know a few friends and friend’s kids who nearly died last year due to it… Imagine sitting in a hospital, having to question whether or not you are going to have to bury your 4 year old in a few days, depending on how “the flu” treats him…I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone.

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I’m not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv. All I did was quote the synopsis of the study. I’ll admit I didn’t understand most of the stuff that was in the full body of the study and thought the synopsis was there for a reason. . . because it summed things up. I wasn’t trying to present anything falsely.

That said, I still don’t plan on getting a shot. I don’t take drugs of any kind (other than alcohol) and I’m not going to go getting shots and introducing foreign crap into my body just because everyone else is. I eat healthy, I live healthy, and I haven’t been sick in a long damn time other than a minor sniffle or two. I must be doing something right.

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Research the facts please…this is the only article I will post from “my side of the fence”…

link…

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I’m not sure what point is being made by posting this article…

After reading the article, the only points I can see are:
1. The media shouldn’t EVER report on health care issues because they always get it wrong, (a point that the author of this article agrees with, and then goes ahead and does anyway), and
2. Never trust what you see on the open internet.

1. The “commentary” by the author first attacks the media for their use of snippets of data and twisting it to make headlines…. AND THEN — the commentator follows up by providing numerous snippets, half-truths, and bits of studies from respected sources, and twists them to suit his own needs. The “studies” which he uses are only occasionally cited.. And the studies that are cited are of very poor design and poor conclusions (for the few people that actually click far enough to read them)… There is very little well-researched, documented, peer-reviewed fact that is actually linked in his article.

2. Secondly, take a look at where this “Article” is posted… Or more specifically, what else is linked in connection to this article…

—On the bottom of the page, we see the familiar statement that is so glaring on all “dietary suppliments”.. A statement that in this case is intended to pertain to the entire page/website —

“* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. ” Basically, its saying that none of this is proven, so take it with a grain of salt.

—On the top of the page, click on PRODUCTS… Take a look at what the author is selling… Everything from “Mercola Healthy Cookwear” to “Purple Defense suppliments” to Organic Skin Care to Juicers to Himalayan Salt Lamps… So make sure to forward all of the wise author’s links and warnings to all of your friends so they can buy more junk…. What great FREE advertising you can have by creating such a stir!!!!!! (Something the author himself notes in the beginning of the article regarding the media’s penchant for sensationalism… Hey, if it works for them, why not for this author?!!

Sure wish I would have save the email I received when this post first went up. Hopefully the fella will sign up to Ido and put in his own experience.

I got my shot last week and my 3 daughters got theirs last night. My 6 year old was a blast to hold. Then after she says, Dad, that didn’t even hurt. Tuff like her old man.

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Sure wish I would have save the email I received when this post first went up. Hopefully the fella will sign up to Ido and put in his own experience.

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Regardless of if that email was for/against the issue at hand, I would argue that individual experience/opinions are the inputs we get the MOST (especially on forums such as this site) but they should be taken with a grain of salt until until the data is compiled into massive amounts of experiences/patients results/outcomes through non-biased, organized and controlled methods. Individual results matter little when trying to evaluate a benefit vs cost for the whole of a population… Not saying that individual health/experience doesn’t matter, but I am saying that it doesn’t matter much when trying to create a treatment guideline for a large and diverse population…

It’s like saying that my cousin’s uncle once vomited after eating at McDonald’s… Because of this single experience, no one anywhere should ever eat at another fast food restaurant again…

I draw the line. Don’t be making fun of my Himalayan salt lamp….

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I draw the line. Don’t be making fun of my Himalayan salt lamp….

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It’s like saying that my cousin’s uncle once vomited after eating at McDonald’s… Because of this single experience, no one anywhere should ever eat at another fast food restaurant again..

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Unless I am that person that became sick or paralyzed or worse.

As you have pointed out, he problem with any of the research papers are they can be discounted in any way shape or form to fit…anyones point of view.

So what it really comes back to is IF we can trust OUR officials to know what’s good for the general population.

Watch the 60 minutes video.

I’m not telling anyone they should or shouldn’t get mass immunizations. Just that the “facts” can be changes as easily as a person wants them to be.

…and there’s nothing wrong with McDonalds! (fish sandwich no tarter or cheese)

Yeah, you guys are right…the media, and business owners who sell “alternative” medicine all have their money in the pot. Drug companies make their money, as do the alternative people.

However, like BK stated, I’m not putting my health care in the govt’ hands. During WWII they military leaders said they needed smokes more than bullets to win the war…the goverment began supplying smokes to soldiers, because they had a “calming effect”…and were deemed safe. Yeah, look at smokes fifty years down the road from that war.

Not everybody will agree, and thats fine with me, but personally, I think the shot is a joke. And I won’t ever get one, and the thing that really ticks me off, is if your a student, or in health care, you are almost forced to get it, and that ain’t cool…

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Unless I am that person that became sick or paralyzed or worse.

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How high do you think the percentage of serious adverse events are related to the vaccine? I’d bet you’d be surprised….

From CDC. Link is below.

After 82 MILLION doses of the H1N1 vaccine last year, there were 726 “serious health events”… Keep in mind, this shows no cause/effect. “Among the 726 reports of serious health events, there were 48 reports of death. Review of these deaths revealed no pattern that would suggest a causal association between the vaccine and deaths; there were no deaths due to anaphylaxis. “

Even at 726 serious events (keep in mind no cause/effect has been established), that would be 1 out of every 113,000 people if my math is correct. Or using 48 deaths, 1 in every 1.7 million people.

“For comparison, an estimated 750 per million adults are hospitalized with seasonal influenza each year; many of these cases could be prevented by vaccination.” [12,000 influenza deaths in the US 2009… compare that to 48 unconfirmed vaccine-related deaths… And the 12,000 # was more than likely lower than what it could have been due to widespread vaccinations….)

According to what the CDC currently believes to be accurate, your risks of adverse events are substantially greater if you don’t get the vaccine.

There are risks either way. Of course there can be problems with drugs. There are risks with everything that we do or don’t do – including drugs, dietary supplements, Himalayan salt lamps… The risk of a car wreck doesn’t deter you from turning the key… You have a 1 in ~8000 risk of dying yearly in a car crash…

I have no idea what 60 minutes show you saw… Not sure if it was pro/con vaccines or pro/con government… But I would HIGHLY advise everyone from getting any sort of medical advice from the media (this thread included… sort of a catch-22, idn’t it! ), no matter how good they make their point sound… Better yet, avoid ALL ADVICE from the media and/or the media as a whole, and you’ll be better off…

Wow.. Got a little too in depth on that one…Signing off!!!

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/Index1.html

.gov…

thats all I’m saying…

“snippets”.

The government doesn’t “push me” into driving…actually they are “pushing” me more towards the alternatives.

The 60 minutes video is embedded about 30 posts above.

I know we’ll agree to disagree on this…but we do agree on one thing. We each need to make up our own minds and I believe we are both 100% for that!

Hey WW! I just realize you’re new..just registered!

If nothing else came of the above thread…you signed in!

Welcome to IDO where thoughts and opinions vary and people still shake hands and walk away from threads!

I changed my mind. Get it out of me! Get it out of me!

Mike you’re so full of it, you will never be free.

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Welcome to IDO where thoughts and opinions vary and people still shake hands and walk away from threads!

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….Well, except for VIKINGS VS PACKER threads, anyway, from what I’ve read recently… LOL / kidding

Hey WW, don’t let this thread scare you off at all, it really is a pretty nice, albeit sometimes disfunctional, family. Heck when I first logged in they were hanging some poor guy by the toes (and other parts) because he posted a picture with a well known bridge in the background. That said, I’m glad I stuck around, not sure if everyone else is though….

He would have been hung good too…except that he was too tall and always touched the ground.

Bob fishes for walleye..and I still talk to him, once in a while.