thoughts on this….

If I take fresh fish fillets, grind them up and make patties from the meat and freeze the patties, do the fish contained in the frozen, un-cooked patties still count towards a possession limit for the fish used to make them?

I’ll often get a mixed bag on the river, maybe a couple saugers and a handful of crappies or sunfish and will cook a fresh meal that night, but still have meat left un-cooked. Instead of just freezing the fillets I grind it up after firming the meat in the freezer for a couple hours, shape it into patties, coat them with egg wash and breading and freeze them for later use.

Personally I think that after the fillet has lost any means of being identified by processing the flesh, it no longer counts as a portion of the limit for the species that was used. Any thoughts on this?

From an ethical standpoint, I would say yes it does count towards your limit. Can it be proven, maybe not. I rarely ever freeze fish simply because I don’t think they taste as good. Another bonus to this is when my wife wants to eat fish, I have to go fishing.

I think your asking for trouble if you get caught. SO all I need to do every time I come back from fishing is grind them up into patties and freeze them….Now they are patties now I don’t have a limit of fish in my freezer…..Now I can go catch more….sounds fishy to me…

I’m an armchair CO.

Fish in possession is fish in possession no matter how you slice and dice it.

Proving how many? Haven’t a clue how they could do that.

But knowing you CT, you wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing you were over limit.

To clarify here….this was asked elsewhere and I wanted some more outside opinions. I generally keep only what I am going to eat fresh. There have been occasions when upon returning home late from fishing someone will not want to keep what they kept and I’ll process them into patties. I don’t, as a rule, freeze fish and I don’t keep any until the freezer is empty if there are any put into it. I know others who do this however and keep fishing and keeping fish. I don’t see any legal definitions regarding this so I asked.

Oh….and yes, since fish patties are made of fish, they’ll probably smell fishy. Thanks for youre insight…I’ll double wrap.

Since you already follow the rules and leave a 1″ patch of skin on your fillets, just place that on top of your fish patty so that you can identify what kind of meat it is.

My gut says yes for sure. Until they are cooked they count.
If you cook them then freeze then no they wouldnt count.

Lets say I catch a limit of fish and a few have worms, so I toss them in the garbage. Can I go out and replace them with newly caught fish? Or do I have to wait until the garbage man takes them away?

There are so many gray areas in whatever laws and rules we have that ones head can start hurting just thinking about them.

I copied this from the regulations:

• Fish prepared for transportation, shipment,or storage are defined as follows:

Undressed fish must have heads, tails, fins, and skin intact. Entrails, gills,and scales may be removed.

Dressed fish may have heads and scales or skin removed,in addition to gills and entrails.

Fillets are fish flesh, excluding cheeks, that have been removed from a fish. Scales or skin may be removed or intact. A fish may not be reduced to more than two fillets.

• Fish must be packaged or transported in such a way that they can be readily unwrapped, separated, identified, and counted.

Based on that; I do not believe that grinding them into patties is legal to start, as the fish is reduced to more then 2 fillets and cannot be counted. The work around would be to grind as you prepare the meal as opposed to when you clean the fish.

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I copied this from the regulations:

Undressed fish must have heads, tails, fins, and skin intact. Entrails, gills,and scales may be removed.

Dressed fish may have heads and scales or skin removed,in addition to gills and entrails.

Fillets are fish flesh, excluding cheeks, that have been removed from a fish. Scales or skin may be removed or intact. A fish may not be reduced to more than two fillets.

• Fish must be packaged or transported in such a way that they can be readily unwrapped, separated, identified, and counted.

Based on that; I do not believe that grinding them into patties is legal to start, as the fish is reduced to more then 2 fillets and cannot be counted. The work around would be to grind as you prepare the meal as opposed to when you clean the fish.

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Everything in this statement pertains to fish in transport. What about at home? What about those who cut up, say a pike, into nuggets? That too reduces beyond two fillets. Gotta focus on the question, nobody I know carries a grinder to process fish for travel.

And to add to this…..how about fish YOU currently have in the hands of a taxidermist? Since your name legally has to accompany that fish at all times, does it apply to your limit for that species…better think long and hard on this one.

I think we are splitting hairs here. These laws are in effect and enforced to stop the major poachers. I don’t think any CO is going to fine you for a couple fish patties in the freezer or a fish at the taxidermist. Just my 2 cents. That being said, if you are unsure, call the DNR, the will be happy to help.

I was on LOW this winter and asked a CO about eating fish on the ice and having cooked fish in the cooler and he agreed that it was ok even though there is obviously no skin patch but the fish remains belonging to the fish MUST BE present. But not really sure how a patty would work being you cant count anything….

I have a note into them as we ponder this.

It is a subject I have not seen discussed before and thought it would be interesting to see what the average joe thinks about it.

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I generally keep only what I am going to eat fresh.

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Now that sounds more like you!

I don’t recall what resort my Dad was at a number of years ago, but he was warned (by the resort owner) to make sure there wasn’t any fish bones in the trash, because they counted towards his possession limit.

Great topic CT.

Personally, again from my arm chair I think a CO that would ticket a person for “a few” patties would only do this if you were being a butt to them or have another reason to hold them to the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law.

IMO of course.

I would be willing to bet most people are over limit in the freezer. :whisteling:
-Mark

I think technically speaking you do have to freeze them as fillets and grind them when you eat them. Yes, it says transport, but it also says packaged. I would think technically that means and fish sitting in you fridge or freezer.

I say technically, because this seems to be more of a philosophical debate than a practical one.

But according to the regs, cheeks are not fillets. From now on I am dressing any accidental walleyes caught and just popping out the cheeks to eat. I can keep as many as I want!

No, that last paragraph does not need a counter argument or I will bite the tongue in my cheek.

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I would be willing to bet most people are over limit in the freezer. :whisteling:
-Mark

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I have two Pollack fillets.

Torques me off sitting down at Everts microwaving cod.

pure and simple uncooked fillets are still fish, so yes they do count against your possession limit. It would be up to you to show the C/O what is in the ground up patties. A 1 inch patch of skin isn’t just for transportation, it’s also for storage.

I will tell you a few things from personal experience.

– anything, and i mean anything you have in possession that is not fully cooked, will count towards your limit. and that means frozen, chopped, ground, marinating, ANYTHING. and they can/will ask you what species and how much it is.

– they WILL write you a ticket for being one piece of meat over. i know – i paid a ticket in Nodak for being one bird over in a 14 man limit.

If they want to be pricks about it, they can start nitpicking about everything, and start writing out tickets for things you never would have thought have.

want an example? breast out a duck one block away, and then WALK it back to the motel on your own two feet. and you have now violated the transport rules because there was no wing attached. you transported the bird, regardless of method.

if you are questioning whether something is illegal, odds are it is illegal, and they can write you a ticket for it.

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Lets say I catch a limit of fish and a few have worms, so I toss them in the garbage. Can I go out and replace them with newly caught fish? Or do I have to wait until the garbage man takes them away?

There are so many gray areas in whatever laws and rules we have that ones head can start hurting just thinking about them.

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no, you cannot throw the fish and then go catch more. you’ve already kept a daily limit, and until they are no longer in your possession, they count towards your possession limit.

So Perch, I always meant to ask you how do you feel about the MN DNR?

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no, you cannot throw the fish and then go catch more. you’ve already kept a daily limit, and until they are no longer in your possession, they count towards your possession limit.

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What if I chuck them in the neighbors yard and the neighbors dog eats half of them?

Ok, lets go one step further over the line….I stop at Morley’s fish market on the way home and buy 4-5 walleyes and bring them home, next day I catch another 4-5 and bring them home, am I over my limit?

Personally I hide all my hundreds of caught walleyes out in the garage in a freezer made over to look like a table saw and don’t worry about it..

I think once you get them home odds of the SWAT team kicking your door down for a couple of fish paddy’s are probably rare….maybe

Al

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no, you cannot throw the fish and then go catch more. you’ve already kept a daily limit, and until they are no longer in your possession, they count towards your possession limit.

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What if I chuck them in the neighbors yard and the neighbors dog eats half of them?

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at that point….what fish? i haven’t even caught any today…

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So Perch, I always meant to ask you how do you feel about the MN DNR?

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that was not meant to be an attack on the DNR or “how i feel about them”. it is fact on the things they are capable of doing. I know this, because I was involved in the doings of all of the things i mentioned. its a really long story, and if you want, i’m more then welcome to share the story over a couple of bullheads, my treat.

granted, it was part of a entire town “shakedown”, but still, nonetheless, if they want to push the envelope, they can.

I’ve seen this brought up over the years in many places, but I have never seen an answer that’s concrete. Its interesting to see how different people interpret this. There are a ton of variations on this site alone.

I haven’t heard back from the DNR office yet regarding my having asked this question of them directly. Curiosity got me this morning and I had to ask. In the end we may find out that even pickled fish might be putting people over the limit, even though the pickled fish is technically chemically cooked. But again. I’m seeing some great replies.

Every now and again I’ll keep a couple sauger and make patties from them and they get done fresh but the freezing makes handling the ground meat easier. It takes a day and the cooking gets done the next day, but they are goooood. I seldom freeze fish other than my lakers and salmon and then that’s for transport home from the cabin. They aren’t in the freezer very long after getting home either. It just gripes a guy when he thinks he is doing something in line with the laws and then maybe find out he isn’t legal after all. This issue just has never been resolved in my opinion.

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still, nonetheless, if they want to push the envelope, they can.

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I’ve heard enough family stories about cousins or uncles being a pr1ck to a CO and the CO suddenly going into overdrive… “OK, that’s how you want to play it? illegal light violation (one of the running lights out on the trailer), illegal gun case (missing a zipper tongue), invalid hunting license (cuz it was in the glove box not on your person), invalid (whatever), illegal (whatever).” 5 violations later (in the space of 3 minutes), and you’re in deep doo-doo.

Bam. Bye-bye truck, guns, game, licenses for 2 years minimum, and a whole truckload of money. Hell we even knew one guy who lost his DOGS. Yeah, they took his dogs.

You don’t pull on Superman’s cape, you spit in the wind, you don’t pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger and you don’t mess around with Jim (the local CO asking to see your fishing or hunting license).

Fact of the matter is they overlook so many things for so many people every day that messing with a CO is just plain stupid. You get the one-off d1ck-head, but for the most part they’re just guys out doing their jobs and being reasonable about it.

Oh, and if they were to dig around for 5 minutes I’ll be they could find at least a couple violations on the most stringently compliant people any of us know. So yeah, be nice.

Which means that Perch, you’re pretty well screwed.

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Which means that Perch, you’re pretty well screwed.

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nah, i’ve gotten in trouble enough, i now know all of their little tricks and tactics.

it’s all part of staying “one step ahead” my friend…

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I stop at Morley’s fish market on the way home and buy 4-5 walleyes and bring them home

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As long as you have the receipt Al you’re out of harms way. This works the same way as going to a trout farm and fishing and leaving with fish…without a license.

I must live a protected life. I can think of only one time the CO’s ticket was a border line pinch and he was a little grumpy. I’m guessing he was harassed when he gave the people he stopped before us 3 tickets from no PFD’s.

That and the time my FD left her fishing license on the table at home. They wouldn’t cuff her and take her to jail as I demanded.

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That and the time my FD left her fishing license on the table at home. They wouldn’t cuff her and take her to jail as I demanded.

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That explains the scar’s….

Al