Might as well talk to a wall. Stadium Rant

First off I really would like to see our sports teams get a new stadium ie Vikings. I don’t want these teams to move out of town…no matter what I’ve said in my previous tongue and cheek posts. I just don’t want to pay for it.

Serious question.

The voters of MN have said over and over again, they don’t want to pay for a stadium. Yet they our elected officials keep bringing up bills that will do this wasting MY and your money with these endless bills going through committees.
Again, I don’t want to make Cougereye cry…but if the tax payers of another state want to kick in towards a new stadium…let it go to where ever! The dog track in Hudson WI comes to mind.

What am I missing??

We had a civic center in Hutchinson that was voted down. What did the they do? They didn’t keep bringing it back to the city council, a number of businesses went together and sponsored the construction on the center.

NO PUBLIC FUNDS WERE SPENT!

There are times when I feel our elected officials need to press 1 for English.

I know that Im paying for much worse causes as it is. I am 100% in favor of any measure, including a new tax, to keep our vikes here.

PS I really like TPaw, but I totally disagree with his stance on this.

Hey BK. I like to think of it this way. If the vikings/twins/T wolves/wild aren’t here. Then all those people that are busy wasting their time on the couch or at the venue would/could be out in the woods or on the water bothering me and taking up space.

I guess I’m paying for them to not be bothering me and I can accept that.

I like the Vikes and hope they stay put. However, the state of MN is faced with multi-billion dollar budget shortfalls and people are already overtaxed to an irresponsible degree. How can a new stadium be anywhere on a politician’s priority list right now?

I dont think it is right to spend tax dollars for a stadium.

I think is it more wrongerer to spend tax dollars for the small niche things that very few people ever enjoy. I think a stadium should take priority over many other things that the govt wastes money on. People who never go to stadium still really enjoy the Vikings, Twins, etc.

How many of you have been to the new Guthrie? If you havent been there, has it done anything to benefit you? How many of you ride the light rail (I do for Mpls events, but only because I live in Eagan, I am likely he exception to the rule)? Has it helped your commute times?

And yes, I did mean to use the word wrongerer.

I’m thinking I could have guess you would be in favor of pretty much anything with a display name like that!

See, it’s not about if you or I want to pay for this…that has been established.

The tax payers as a whole don’t.

Stop wasting our time and money by introducing bills!

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and people are already overtaxed to an irresponsible degree.

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Holst for Governor!! Plantz start a FaceBook page!!

I also don’t agree with taxes being used to build stadiums, but I don’t see how it is different than giving companies tax breaks and other incentives to keep jobs in MN. ie. The Ford plant. A new stadium is sure to bring in more jobs and revenue.

Wasn’t the (vast) majority of the proposes users fees? How many metro hotels do you stay in Brian? How many rental cars do you rent in the metro? How much NFL merchandise/memoribilia do you buy (I can guess on that. ).

I saw one proposal that Viking license plates would be offered and the additional money from those plates would be put toward it.

I think this time they were on the right path to an extent for finding the solution, but some politicians will now vote down any stadium proposal no matter how good of an idea, partly because of attitudes like this thread.

As for the “I don’t want to pay for it” argument, there’s a whole lot of crap goverment pays for that I don’t want to pay for. However, there are many people who don’t want to pay toward things important to us that they could give a crap about.

I’m going to take a wild stab at this. Hotel taxes, rental car taxes and a license plates will not cover the cost of a stadium.

As far as the other things we pay for…I’ll just leave it at “two wrongs don’t make a right”.

The voters have spoken. It doesn’t matter what the tone of this thread is…they said no.

I must be confused!

Tear them ALL down and build a couple more inner city lakes

The state of MN is already one of the highest taxed states and they can’t even balance the budget. Anybody who thinks they should raise any sort of tax to fund a stadium should really have their head examined. I do enjoy the whole lets use hotel and rental car fees. So people that come to Minneapolis for business should have to pay even more? How long before they stop showing up? People and companies are leaving this state because of the high taxes. You think raising them more is a solution? Or use lottery tickets. Brilliant! If that is such a great idea, how about we use that to get a balanced budget before we worry about a stadium!

If somehow this passes one of the requirements must be to use non-union labor. I believe the Arizona Cardinals stadium cost much less because of the non-union labor. Probably save $50 million or more. If I have to pay for it, then make it at a market rate, not an artificially inflated one.

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I like the Vikes and hope they stay put. However, the state of MN is faced with multi-billion dollar budget shortfalls and people are already overtaxed to an irresponsible degree. How can a new stadium be anywhere on a politician’s priority list right now?

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Good post, remember how the added tax we paid to build the twins stadium was suppose to be removed when the staidum was paid for?
Never happened.

Personally if you want a stadium, send the vikes a check, but I’d rather not pay for it, and living in Mpls I do get to pay for it, unlike so many that live out of the metro and don’t, but are more than willing for me and the rest of us here to pay for it.

Al…who thinks over half his income going to taxes, fee’s, permits and such is quite enough thank you.

I see the MN Vikings team as a business. Therefore the buisness should have to support itself. I realize that building a stadium will bring all sorts of jobs into the market. That is fine with me, I know plenty of people that have been laid off for over a year now.

Tthe problem with all of these new stadiums that everybody wants is this: whats wrong with the location of the Dome? Can’t we tear it down and rebuild a new stadium there? We already have all the infra-structure in place to make it work. Look at all the changes that MPLS. had to make to downtown in order for the Twins stadium.

When the Vikings decide to move on and go to another state and Mr. Wilf makes millions on the sale do the taxpayers, the people that funded the building of HIS business get a cut from the profits?

I’m off my soap box.

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If somehow this passes one of the requirements must be to use non-union labor. I believe the Arizona Cardinals stadium cost much less because of the non-union labor. Probably save $50 million or more. If I have to pay for it, then make it at a market rate, not an artificially inflated one.

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Want to be Lt. Governor?

Actually I don’t think there should be a requirement against using union labor but no state or federal project should EVER require it or exclude non-union contractors from bidding.

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Wasn’t the (vast) majority of the proposes users fees? How many metro hotels do you stay in Brian? How many rental cars do you rent in the metro? How much NFL merchandise/memoribilia do you buy (I can guess on that. ).

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Does anyone know if the “user fees” implemented to build the metrodome were ever dropped once the dome was paid for?

For what it’s worth, here’s my 2 cents. I will borrow a quote from someone else:

“If America chooses the right future, it will be because we learn again to cooperate politically and embrace a positive vision of what our nation can become. Yes, we have to make some tough choices. But instead of obsessing over the tax hike that outrages us, or the benefit cut that shocks us, we need to focus on everything our nation can achieve if we all made an effort to come to terms with our future.” Peter G. Peterson “Running on Empty” 2004

I guess the question is; What would be the financial impact, in terms of private revenue lost and potential taxes generated, if the Vikings moved? If that negative impact outwieghs the “cost” of a new stadium, build it. If not, don’t. It’s a simple matter of math.

Thats just my 2 cents,
Erik Osberg

I got an idea…..Let’s just build a Casino

If we let them go, we’ll end up spending just as much, if not more, bringing the NFL back in the future. The Viking’s are are a big part of our culture and the intangible of a part of being Minnesota would go with them. Of all the sports franchises, I think people outside Minnesota equate us mostly with the Vikings.

I am not sure of the economic impact, but I would guess the state would take a pretty big hit in revenue, you know, revenue that funds other things. I am sure local businesses would also feel an impact, depending on their sector. I am not one of these people that say a new stadium has a positive economic impact, because normally it just means dollars move that would have been spent elsewhere. However, losing a franchise is different than just moving a team from an old stadium to a new one. Losing a team has a big negative economic impact.

Now I am not saying throw money at them and give them a lopsided sweet deal, but if we want to continue to be a major metropolitan area that attracts businesses, then the Vikes need to stay.

The longer we wait though, the more lopsided it will be. I predict next year, with the lease due to expire in a year, other cities will start courting them and that means they’ll have better leverage. Then we will be taking it up the in order to have them stay.

They should have gotten the deal in Anoka county done a few years back when Wilf was willing to put up a lot of money for a major complex.

Few people seem to remember that the City of Blaine had the site and the funding figured out several years ago, when the stadium question first came up. Several cities made a play for a new stadium the final two, if I remember correctly came down to Eden Prairie, and Blaine. Blaine had the site ready right by the sports center. The Vikings turned the plan down because they weren’t sure about the location. I think that it was a ploy to get Minneapolis to come up with their own proposal, but when they didn’t the Vikings wanting a Minneapolis location pulled the plug on the entire ploy. My problem with a publicly funded stadium is that even though the vikings say they will pay for 40% of the stadium they want 100% of the revenue from concessions and rent to other events profits. I say if the Vikings pay for 40% they only get 40% of revenue that isn’t generated from ticket sales.

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I say if the Vikings pay for 40% they only get 40% of revenue that isn’t generated from ticket sales.

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Here’s your Attorney General right here James!

FWIW, the Vikings payroll is $100mm, through in staff and you probably get to $110-120mm?

That is $10 million/year of state income taxes. Add in property taxes for 50 McMansions and other taxes and you are looking at another 1-2 million. That does not include the indirect businesses supported.

Probably not enough to justify a massive investment by the state, but it does offset some of the real costs.

Dave, I’m not being too stubborn…well, maybe I am.

But the voters said no.

That’s my point. We all want to pull for “our side” whether it’s for or against. But all these points are over ridden by the voters saying….

NO.

I’m I the cheese standing alone?

Alot of the attitude in this post is saddening.

I guess Ive learned that there is a difference between living in Minnesota and being a Minnesotan…

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FWIW, the Vikings payroll is $100mm, through in staff and you probably get to $110-120mm?

That is $10 million/year of state income taxes. Add in property taxes for 50 McMansions and other taxes and you are looking at another 1-2 million. That does not include the indirect businesses supported.

Probably not enough to justify a massive investment by the state, but it does offset some of the real costs.

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I’m not disagreeing with your point… it is quite valid. Having the Vikes here does generate revenue for the state.

If the state of MN invested 200 Million (just picked a number out of thin air) into any business or business sector you would likely see an increase in taxes collected. And I can think of a number of areas of the state economy that would seem, at least to me, to be far more critical to long term growth and financial stability than a football team.

Everybody here knows I’m anti stadium. For me it’s real easy, the day after it was announced the Wilfs had purchased the Vikings Ziggy was on camera, his exact quote was ” We will build a new privately funded stadium for the Vikings. No public money will be needed.”

Fast forward 5 minutes. One of his trusted advisers tell him………Ziggy you got fleeced by a Texas car salesman, you overpaid for the team. Of course we can extort a new stadium from these rubes.

Fast forward every month since then…….Vikings monthly float the threat of leaving without a stadium. Reason? We can’t be competitive. Really? The NFL has 9 billion dollar TV deal! Yesterday they inked another deal worth a billion dollars.

Ask yourself this………If pro sports are such a bad deal, why is every multi billionaire hanging onto their team? Why is it standing room only to get a new team?

For me it only works two ways………..

1) hand Ziggy a check for $250 million and the Metro Dome. He can use the money any way he wants. Build a new palace, remodel the dome, stick it in his pocket. I don’t care what he does. He signs a 20 year lease and we hand him the title and check.

2) Well, 2 involves gambling and the Tribes, that would never happen so no since pounding that dead horse.

Oh, Brian to answer your question as to why it keeps coming up. Because we are a welfare state. No only means No in the case of rape. No to our elected officials means yippee we get to take more campaign donations!
And the main reason………….we ARE rubes and will let these clowns shove it down our throats. And afterwards we will sing the praises of the mighty Wilf family for saving the Vikings.

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That’s my point. We all want to pull for “our side” whether it’s for or against. But all these points are over ridden by the voters saying….

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Government is not designed to have the voters making every decision. Not only would it take forever for things to get done, but things never would other.

Example: If we had to vote on every construction project that happens in the Metro, how are you going to convince the millions of outstate MN residents that it needs to be done. You won’t and it would get voted down.

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FWIW, the Vikings payroll is $100mm, through in staff and you probably get to $110-120mm?

That is $10 million/year of state income taxes.

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I’m not sure that’s really accurate. The way I understand it, state income taxes go by where the income is earned. 8 road games means that half of the salary is taxed by MN and the other half by whatever states they play in. I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere when that argument was used to try and get funding for Lambeau form the state of WI.

i say we do away with the property tax subsidies all home owners get and use that money.

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Everybody here knows I’m anti stadium. For me it’s real easy, the day after it was announced the Wilfs had purchased the Vikings Ziggy was on camera, his exact quote was ” We will build a new privately funded stadium for the Vikings. No public money will be needed.”

Fast forward 5 minutes. One of his trusted advisers tell him………Ziggy you got fleeced by a Texas car salesman, you overpaid for the team. Of course we can extort a new stadium from these rubes.

Fast forward every month since then…….Vikings monthly float the threat of leaving without a stadium. Reason? We can’t be competitive. Really? The NFL has 9 billion dollar TV deal! Yesterday they inked another deal worth a billion dollars.

Ask yourself this………If pro sports are such a bad deal, why is every multi billionaire hanging onto their team? Why is it standing room only to get a new team?

For me it only works two ways………..

1) hand Ziggy a check for $250 million and the Metro Dome. He can use the money any way he wants. Build a new palace, remodel the dome, stick it in his pocket. I don’t care what he does. He signs a 20 year lease and we hand him the title and check.

2) Well, 2 involves gambling and the Tribes, that would never happen so no since pounding that dead horse.

Oh, Brian to answer your question as to why it keeps coming up. Because we are a welfare state. No only means No in the case of rape. No to our elected officials means yippee we get to take more campaign donations!
And the main reason………….we ARE rubes and will let these clowns shove it down our throats. And afterwards we will sing the praises of the mighty Wilf family for saving the Vikings.

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That may be the best rant I’ve read in a long time. Bravo!