Mille Lacs Netting- dumping waste on news

  • joey678
    Posts: 7
    #864097

    This thing is far bigger than a gut pile or a tub of fish. Those who question the state’s role in digging this hole, esp. in the 1990s, are on track. No treaty and no court ordered a single net in Mille Lacs. Harvest methods are political decisions by managers, within the framework of the protocols agreed to by state and tribal personnel. They’re not written in stone. Had the state wanted to protect state intererests back in the 1990s, state lawyers could have had our top biologists insist on no nets, pending a 10-year study on gill-netting during spawning time. (Hadn’t been allowed for a century.) Gut piles and unequal rights are issues. There’s a lot more–including, as some smartly point out here, the past role of media. And did the state do its best to win the case in the first place? Anyway, here’s another take. appearing in this week’s Outdoor News.

    = = = =

    Mille Lacs gill-netting: biggest scam on state’s outdoor scene

    By Joe Fellegy, Outdoor News, April 14, 2010

    I’ve strongly opposed the only spawning-time walleye gill-net fishery in the United States, without feeling guilty.

    Ponder the high-impact Mille Lacs monster: enormous walleye totals, plus tons of unwanted and wasted pike; a giant cultural affront to most Minnesotans, who embrace closed seasons during spawning; gross misrepresentation of Ojibwe culture and history for political purposes; taxpayer millions for tribal, federal, and state management bureaucracies; disproportionately high tribal fish allocations; a tradition of go-with-the-flow acquiescence among state officials, who lost an air-tight case and helped shape the present intolerable system.

    Consider, too, the hands-off approaches by journalists, politicians, and the conservation community. And there’s the modern separate-and-unequal race politics—central to the new tribal “sovereignty”—that celebrates differences instead of commonalities.

    Almost 20 years ago, the Mille Lacs Band government launched its unnecessary 1837 Treaty case against a generous state that signed compacts for two Mille Lacs Band casinos. Had one polled Band members in 1990 about a spawning-time gill-net fishery, it’s likely 90-plus percent would have said no. Unfortunately, the Indian Industry, not the Indian people, ran the show.

    In the early 1990s, I attended parties hosted by the late Ron Maddox, St. Paul bar owner, tribal lobbyist, and DFL activist who helped transfer Mille Lacs Band government to the modern Indian Industry’s network of consultants, lawyers, lobbyists, p. r. firms, and advocacy groups. Band leader Marge Anderson told us that Mille Lacs Band members generally weren’t interested in exercising 1837 fishing rights. Similarly, Don Wedll, the longtime non-Indian mind and voice of the Mille Lacs Band, assured the Minnesota Sportfishing Congress (MSC) there’d be no Wisconsin-style treaty fracas, since the Mille Lacs Band needed only several dozen walleyes annually for ceremonies. (Then why the lawsuit?)

    Historically, no Mille Lacs leader made 1837 fishing a cause. After all, in the 1855 Treaty the Band relinquished “all rights, title, and interest of whatsoever nature” in the 1837 Treaty area. In the 1990s, as anglers increasingly worried about gill nets, tribal elder Betty Kegg asked me to explain the fuss over nets and fish. She told me, “Most Indians here don’t care about fishing!”

    That ‘settlement’

    No historic rights cause? Indians uninterested in fishing? True. But the new sovereignty had other aims, here and across the country: expand jurisdiction for tribal governments—management authority, political power, and money. Following treaty-rights hassles in Wisconsin, Mille Lacs Band policymakers played on Minnesota fears. They coaxed state personnel, especially from the Sando DNR and the Humphrey Attorney General’s Office, into secret negotiations towards a “settlement” to be okayed by the Legislature and by a federal court. Key components of the failed settlement effort: A. Race-based partitioning of Mille Lacs Lake with a Mille Lacs Band “tribal exclusive zone” off the west shore—reminiscent of segregated facilities in the old south. (Had the other seven 1837 Chippewa bands gained similar zones, the total would have covered half the lake.) B. $8 to $10 million for Mille Lacs Band government. C. 7,500 to 15,000 acres of Minnesota public land (not detailed for the public). D. Redefinition of Mille Lacs Indian Reservation—15 times larger than the one on your highway map.

    Related points. . .

    • Most Chippewa netters from the eight 1837 bands, including six from Wisconsin, have no cultural or historic ties to Mille Lacs fishing.

    • No court required gill nets in Mille Lacs. Decisions about harvesting methods, fish allocations, seasons, etc. result from political decisions by management. No court exempted tribal managers from the same every-day scrutiny and politics that visit state DNRs and their decision-making. (Your DNR and lawmakers could okay gill nets, seines, dynamite, 20 lines, and limitless bass-keeping for all state- licensed anglers. But conservation ethics, values, and good politics intervene.)

    • Federal tax dollars fund tribal governments, tribal DNRs, and the Great Lakes Indian Fish & Wildlife Commission (GLIFWC). (Focus on this Indian Industry, not “the Indians.”) Minnesotans fund their state’s big role in “treaty fisheries management.”

    • Courts never officially divvied up the Mille Lacs fish pie. No final allocation. Nevertheless, citing other cases and “precedent,” state lawyers and officials—at what conference table?—surrendered to 50-50 splits for northern pike and perch. Did they open the door to future Indian Industry claims to 50 percent of the annual “safe harvest level” of Mille Lacs walleyes?

    • Somewhere in the legal papers, Minnesota officials have ultimate authority to intervene on conservation grounds. Sacrificial pike alone—for years discarded dead and alive, on the lake, in ditches, and in dumpsters—should justify flexing Minnesota’s legal and political muscle.

    Despite the state’s losing case, the U. S. Supreme Court’s 1999 ruling provided an out, affirming that the 1837 Chippewa harvest privilege is precarious and temporary—“at the pleasure of the President.” Somehow, on this front and on the conservation opening, we’ve seen no state effort to end the annual madness.

    END

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #864107

    I agree buddy, time to push for real enforcement!!! Our DNR should make this a priority. Hopefully a little more press like this will help our cause.

    perch_44
    One step ahead of the Warden.
    Posts: 1589
    #864137

    Post deleted by Briank

    buck-slayer
    Posts: 1499
    #864152

    Quote:


    Edit by BK


    Wish it was that easy

    joey678
    Posts: 7
    #864156

    Quote:


    Edit by BK


    This kind of extremist post is uncalled for. It likely violates ground rules for posting here. Or it should. Nothing in that column encourages such thinking.

    JamesK
    Posts: 12
    #864187

    Farmboy, since you did some reading, maybe you can comment on my thoughts.

    First, I see a lot of people belly aching about equal rights. Given the indians are part of a sovereign nation (much like France) that argument will not stand a chance in court. Also, the treaty would have to be nullified.

    If we are so focused on equal rights, we should be marching in gayy parades, demanding the same medical coverage as seniors, the same social security benefits now and removing any programs like affirmative action or education grants based on race. We should all pay the same amount in taxes, which if you earn less than $100k a year, will really, really not like your bill. Anyway…little off topic.

    So if the Treaty is not going away and the tribes are part of a different nation with their own laws, how can things change? Money?

    From what I’ve read, there is money that flows into these tribes from tax dollars, correct? Programs for this and that. Many programs are subject to budget approvals. If there are discretionary programs being funded to the tribes who are doing the netting, then it’s time to talk with them just like the U.S. does with every other foreign country.

    If another country is engaging in politics or actions we strongly disagree with, sanctions are imposed, funding cut, etc. There should be enough discretionary program funding where the reduction will outweigh the benefit of netting.

    I also want to throw in that just because I may be against mass harvesting at spawn, I’m not against other means of angling for the tribes.

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #864222

    Quote:


    Farmboy, since you did some reading, maybe you can comment on my thoughts.

    First, I see a lot of people belly aching about equal rights. Given the indians are part of a sovereign nation (much like France) that argument will not stand a chance in court. Also, the treaty would have to be nullified.

    If we are so focused on equal rights, we should be marching in gayy parades, demanding the same medical coverage as seniors, the same social security benefits now and removing any programs like affirmative action or education grants based on race. We should all pay the same amount in taxes, which if you earn less than $100k a year, will really, really not like your bill. Anyway…little off topic.

    So if the Treaty is not going away and the tribes are part of a different nation with their own laws, how can things change? Money?

    From what I’ve read, there is money that flows into these tribes from tax dollars, correct? Programs for this and that. Many programs are subject to budget approvals. If there are discretionary programs being funded to the tribes who are doing the netting, then it’s time to talk with them just like the U.S. does with every other foreign country.

    If another country is engaging in politics or actions we strongly disagree with, sanctions are imposed, funding cut, etc. There should be enough discretionary program funding where the reduction will outweigh the benefit of netting.

    I also want to throw in that just because I may be against mass harvesting at spawn, I’m not against other means of angling for the tribes.


    The money flows in from the Bureau Of Indian Affairs in Washington. The BIA. Millions used for sewers, hospitals, roads, housing and other amenities, same as what the United States people have. The BIA is funded by the tax payers of the United States, all 50 states.

    I don’t know that we need to treat them anymore like any other country then we already do. Targeting the politicians on a Federal level will REALLY, REALLY be like peeing against the wind. Geez, they can’t do simple addition and subtraction when it comes to budgets, I certainly don’t want anymore of them fools around.

    State run Casino’s and open gambling will most certainly get their attention. In the past it was impossible because the do gooders & PC crowd believe we were picking on the Bands for racial reasons. Now that we can sell the idea that it’s for monetary and not racial reasons we would have a chance. The do gooders & PC crowd are only do gooders when somebody else’s money is involved. Get into their pockets and they will fight like a rabid dog.

    The time to strike is now, while the country is in a historic nose dive. We can’t afford to wait until a recovery starts.

    If you want to send something to St. Paul demand open gambling.

    JamesK
    Posts: 12
    #864387

    I would not support any casino/racino plans for a few reasons. First, it isn’t something I personally feel is something our government’s function is. Second, I don’t gamble or suppport this type of entertainment. And my main reason not to support a casino is, there is only so much discretionary income to spend. Spending the money at the casino means less for the resort, bait shop, gift shop, golf course, hardware store, go-cart park, etc..
    On a personal level, I was in a business where revenue dropped due to a casino opening. Our local seniors were spending their Sundays at the indian casino instead of locally at businesses like ours.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #864397

    Having said that… what is our gov’t’s function, when it comes to natural resources ?? Should they have our best interests, the natives best interest or everybodys best interest in mind when addressing it ??? Let’s say for example…. I fish Mille Lacs and catch a few northerns… I don’t care for northerns, wasn’t even fishing for them…. I then proceed to throw them in the bottom of the boat, haul them to shore… throw them in my truck, cruise past a Motel.. pull into their parking lot, and throw the northerns in their dumpster…. Would you expect the gov’t to … A. Launch an investigation, to try to find out who did this (remember, I did) B. Not even worry about it… their only northerns…. C. Turn it over to another agency, that historically does nothing…..and do no follow-up, to be sure it was handled properly. I can guarantee you, if it was me who did this… the only option considered would be A. When others do it, B & C are chosen… why is this ??? Should there not be consequences for our actions ??? I don’t care what color you are, what religion, your beliefs….. we are all human and should be held to a minimum set of standards….Done. I also know there are natives who agree with my thinking…. I await responses…..

    big G

    JamesK
    Posts: 12
    #864419

    There’s the branch of gov’t that makes laws and the branch that enforces the laws. If a law was violated I would expect law enforcement to perform its duties.

    Now that’s a simple answer and doesn’t take into account the resources these departments have and their priorities. I once called the DNR because people were destroying the wetlands with their four wheelers around a lake. Sure, it was illegal, but the enforcement officer for that area was going to be busy with one of the bird season openeners for the next few weeks. No follow up either. Unfortunately, many areas are spread very thin with field agents.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #864427

    Quote:


    First, I see a lot of people belly aching about equal rights. Given the indians are part of a sovereign nation (much like France) that argument will not stand a chance in court. Also, the treaty would have to be nullified.


    The whole sovereign thing makes this very difficult. I think we can safely say the treaty is here to stay for an extended period of time. This is why the tribes can have casinos, gambling is legal in these “nations”. Our government cannot legislate there, and has no say in anything (law enforcement or otherwise).

    Quote:


    If we are so focused on equal rights


    This has nothing to do with equal rights.

    Quote:


    “Article 2. In consideration of the cession aforesaid, the United States agrees to make to the Chippewa nation, annually, for the term of twenty years, from the date of the ratification of this treaty, the following payments….


    The totals equal $39,000 in 1837, a large sum at the time. Why we continue to pay these nations is beyond me. Reparations for past inequities….I don’t know

    The entire document is a couple pages long. The area that we are really discussing here states;

    Quote:


    Article 5. The privilege of hunting, fishing, and gathering the wild rice, upon the lands, the rivers and the lakes included in the territory ceded, is guaranteed to the Indians, during the pleasure of the President of the United States.


    These lines are where all this started, and what the supreme court has upheld numerous times. Not worth fighting anymore IMHO.

    I will say again, we need to give up on fighting the treaty as it is a losing battle and concentrate our efforts on enforcement of the existing laws. These tribes can harvest game, whether you feel this is right or wrong, they can. Monitor the activities, stop splitting sportsmen from tribes, and we can all move on.

    I am out of these discussions from here on. I responded because I think people need to know what is being address, and I feel most guys don’t know, or take the time to research it.

    Rehasing the same stuff on fishing related sites every spring is getting old. I am moving on

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #864432

    I will agree gets old, year after year.

    That said I’m sure it got old fighting prohibition in the day also.

    Casino’s for all Minnesotans. (If you don’t gamble just don’t go)

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #864440

    I think it rather funny, but not in the sense… that posts such as these (pretty much 100% about fishing and natural resources) are treated as if they are a sore spot on IDO….. isn’t that what this site is all about ??? Sure it’s nice to be able to ask a question about your wiring or plumbing…. but what is it really about ??? Talking about people netting 110,000 lbs of Walleye during spawn, is getting old ???? Hello…….???

    big G

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #864448

    I think it effects the people that have this going on it their own back yard more than folks outside of the area.

    The way I look at it is this could be happening in my area someday or the folks that I can help might be called upon to help me someday. Maybe not tribal netting, but changing something that isn’t right with the fish and game laws.

    We are all in this together…comes to mind.

    fishnutbob
    Walker, Mn.
    Posts: 611
    #864462

    BigG your posts are right on as are alot of others who have posted, Ive read all the posts good discussion.

    Thank you

    Ill add one thing I guide on Leech Lake and live in walker.

    I have a few Native friends who net Leech. I talked to my native friend last night at the Casino. I asked him when can you net and how long. He stated they have a netting season after the spawn and it starts in May. Ive been invited to see the fish they pulled from their nets lots of big fish 4 or 5 coolers with fish over the slot and smaller fish but they were all spawned out. At least they have a concern for the fish on leech and let them spawn before netting leech. Each member can net but Ive only seen a few that do and they told me they do sell fish and give many to the family’s and elders. The Mille lacs netting looks like its a rub in the face of certain people, or now were getting even.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #864511

    Quote:


    I think it rather funny, but not in the sense… that posts such as these (pretty much 100% about fishing and natural resources) are treated as if they are a sore spot on IDO….. isn’t that what this site is all about ??? Sure it’s nice to be able to ask a question about your wiring or plumbing…. but what is it really about ??? Talking about people netting 110,000 lbs of Walleye during spawn, is getting old ???? Hello…….???

    big G


    Big G,

    It is not the discussion of the resource, but the same spouting off by people who are underinformed, racist, or plain stupid hate speech that gets old. The “I heard from this guy who talked to this one guy once” type stuff. People looking to fan the flames rather then intelligently discuss the situation and the options we are stuck with.

    I for one would love to sit down with one of the tribe members, sitting in the boat or raising a couple cold frosty beverages, and discuss both sides of the issue. I would even buy

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #864515

    Indeed!

    Thanks Farm and IDO’ers!..

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #864525

    Farm, I totally agree….. 95% of the Tribe members, feel the same as you and I about what happens every spring. I would guess less than 5% of the Mille Lacs Band even partake in the netting aspect. All it takes are a couple bad apples, to ruin the whole basket…. and I for one refuse to condemn a whole Tribe for a couple idiots, among them(they are everywhere across all creeds/race and religion). What I do insist upon though.. is that SOMETHING…ANYTHING… be done to correct plain wasteful, illegal, selfish acts, which not only fuel the hatred that some ignorant people have already towards natives, but will eventually cause such division, that no chance of an agreement or reconciliation is possbile. It has been proven countless times, you cannot unite, by division. This is where either our Government agencies, need to buck up and do something (not turning over to the ones that have proved, they will do nothing) or God forbid…. some hick will take matters into his own hands. I will say, I know the difference between a Native Tradition and blatant in your face glutton….anybody with common sense should be able too….

    big G

    chomps
    Sioux City IA
    Posts: 3974
    #864527

    there are always sayers, then there are doers. I’ll have to do some digg’n, but at this time last year I had e-mailed several GLWIC (or what ever the acronym) members asking a few questions on their harvest quota. I asked if the pounds of fish which suffered “netting mortality”, or those fish which didn’t just “bounce off” the gill net, actually tore themselves free, causing a tear in their gill plates…then eventual infection, were included in their safe harvest limit. Only one replied that there as no such research done to substantiate netting mortality. I said we know there is a certain pecentage of weight deducted from the hook and line quota based on hooking mortality as a fixed percentage based on fishing hours. I asked why can’t floaters with obvious gill plate damage be included as netting mortality? The answer was deafening…no answer! I also asked about the fines imposed to those invividuals which lost their nets and there was no attempt to retreive said nets. Again, no answer! I wonder how long I’d have my job if I ignored those who paid my salary! I know my voice is pretty small, if there were a clear answer I’d love to see a political action organization to donate time and money. I like the legalizing public or state run casinos idea. I bit of competition does no harm, if you are against gambling, don’t go. If you can eat a couple times your body weight at the buffet, go the the tribes buffet and help them lose some money!

    chomps
    Sioux City IA
    Posts: 3974
    #864545

    This is a pretty well written article, I hope the Mille Lacs Tribe is PO’d at this. As Farmboy said the WI tribes have no respect for the area, they are the bad apple out of the bunch, The article does state the Mille Lacs Band has a place to dispose of entrails, do they allow other bands access to this site? trib article

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