Well the “FIGHTING SIOUX” of North Dakota are no more. After a 4 year legal battle the North Dakota team must change it’s name and logo’s.
So, whats next for the Cleveland INDIANS, Washington REDSKINS, Florida State SEMINOLES?
How about we scrape off Chief Sitting Bull from Mount Rushmore also.
I for one will always refer to North Dakota as the “Fighting Sioux”. Same as I will always refer to the “Lessard” amendment.
Where and when will the line be drawn on this stuff?
Wow,…that long already. I remember when Ralph gave them the money to build it, he said he’d take back every dollar if they changed the name.
To deter changing the name Ralph had the Sioux logo everywhere in that arena: In the concrete on the building, even on every seat in the arena. I’d like to know how much money is being spent on the arena alone just to change the million logos.
Anyway,………..GO HUSKIES 
The “Fighting Indigenous Americans” just doesn’t cut it.
As the song says “You can call me anything, just don’t call me Sioux”.
Pete
FSU sued the NCAA to keep their name because the tribe supports it. I believe the Tribune article said only one tribe didn’t approve or vote for the Sioux name.
Rumors from a Sioux alumni…..said if the name ever was changed a bulldozer is ready to destroy the Ralph….
I always thought they were the Fighting Sue. 
I want to know what happens when PETA start petitioning to get animal team names changed.
they will either have to rebuild the arena, or spend MILLIONS to remove all of the logos from that arena. i don’t know how the ownership still is, but the last i heard was that Ralph’s kids or wife took ownership of the arena after he passed, so that if something like this happened, they have the ability to step in, and prevent the school from using it.
I hope they either lock the doors, or plow it under, just to prove a point to the college and the NCAA, that doing with is “Politically Correct”, isn’t always the correct thing…
Ralph has no say in the matter and of course the Sioux or what-ever they choose for their next logo will continue to play at the Ralph!
Highly doubtful at this point they will have to remove all of the Native American stuff at the arena also.
Carry on Flicker-tails!
What I do not get is this…… was not the label Sioux Indian, given to that particular tribe, by the white man ??? Just because they have adopted the name, given them by the white settler, that does not mean they have exclusivity over it …. does it ??? 
big G 
I had always heard they never gave the building to ND, but gave them a yearly lease for $1 that was contigent on keeping the Sioux name. When the old man died, the kids did not have a hard line like their Dad, so things slipped a little bit.
If they choose to honor the original intent of the lease, ND will have to find a new place to play, but I just don’t see it happening.
Maybe next year in the Final Five we can watch the ND Prairie Chickens vs the Notre Dame unhappy Irish American 
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As the song says “You can call me anything, just don’t call me Sioux”.
good one 
who will the PC police target next.
When is our country going to get past this political correctness horse sh-t? With the NCAA and the ND Higher Board of Education not having any integrity or backbone things will only get worse. This is just ludicrous. IMHO
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Ralph has no say in the matter and of course the Sioux or what-ever they choose for their next logo will continue to play at the Ralph!
really? care to cite some sources?… 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Engelstad#cite_note-3
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Later, Engelstad placed the stadium under private (rather than University) management and stipulated that the Fighting Sioux motif be kept indefinitely. An Engelstad family trust continues to own the arena and rents it to the University.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/other/2005-09-27-sioux-arena_x.htm
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The arena is owned by an Engelstad trust that is directed by a three-person board. That board includes Betty Engelstad. She has declined interviews and a request for a statement on the issue is being considered.
Even if the NCAA rules against the school and forces a change, The Ralph won’t have to remove its logos or Sioux references. Although it is on campus, the trust owns the building.
Kupchella says that UND’s contract deal calls for the building to transfer to the university in 26 more years. At that time, the logos could be changed.
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As for the University of North Dakota, their biggest hit is in their hockey facility. The Ralph Engelstad Arena has over 2,400 Fighting Sioux logos in its building. The NCAA has a plan through the year 2013 that would force the University to remove the logos from the building or they would not be allowed to host NCAA playoff hockey games. Jody Hodgson, manager at Ralph Engelstad Arena, says that there will be no changes made to “The Ralph.”
Ralph has passed away, but the family continues to own the arena. therefore, yes, they can lock the doors…
The problem with the NCAA is they haven’t found a way to extort any funds from the tribes. If they had there would be zero interest enforcing the issue.
The NCAA is the biggest money grubbing whores known to mankind. The thought of ever doing anything because “it’s the right thing to do” has never entered their minds.
Don’t you think with their mega million dollar TV contracts the NCAA could come to an “AGREEMENT” with the Tribes if they wanted to?
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When is our country going to get past this political correctness horse sh-t? With the NCAA and the ND Higher Board of Education not having any integrity or backbone things will only get worse. This is just ludicrous. IMHO
Probably once all the folks on the left go away 
My question is why do the tribes have any say what so ever as to how the NCAA,ND Higher education board or UND conduct any business let alone a name or logo?
Hmmmmmmm….let see…he Left people are the problem…
The people on the Right have had a vast majority in Congress for over 3 years now… can you cite any really exciting improvements for the country or economy?
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Hmmmmmmm….let see…he Left people are the problem…
The people on the Right have had a vast majority in Congress for over 3 years now… can you cite any really exciting improvements for the country or economy?
Oops, sorry… thought we were talking about forced name changes and political correctness…
I prefer the term “Human common sense” rather then Left or Right, Liberal or Conservative, Republican or Democrat.
Like Red Green would say………” We are all in this together folks”.
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Oops, sorry… thought we were talking about forced name changes and political correctness…
You are still confusing me Vikefanmn…Those are the kind of things I’ve observed from people on the right as well as the left for over 60 years…
I think Mr. Hoffies has won this discussion hands down!
You are correct and they could if they would put the resources to work and find a way to get the money…
My issue with the name change and the “power” the tribe appears to have there, so without the name can they pull all free education for the Sioux natives attending UND? Probably not but as long as they get there’s, OMG not a nickname on a team name…..sometimes people should just look in a mirror and realize it’s not a big deal on either end….it’s just a nickname….
RIP Sioux, I will miss the name.
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Ralph has no say in the matter and of course the Sioux or what-ever they choose for their next logo will continue to play at the Ralph!
really?
Ralph’s sadly no longer with us so he has no say! But if was still with us the last thing he would do is Implode or close arena.
Locking the doors or Imploding the Arena is just internet Fluff or Hot Air in layman’s terms.
The University of North Dakota will be playing there Hockey games at the Ralph for a long time to come!
Now go Google some more extremely outdated info! 
Any way your guys beef is with the NCAA which has a ban on Native American imagery in nicknames or mascots.
And the Standing Rock Tribe which did not vote on the matter quick enough for UND which is trying to gain admittance into a new d1 conference.
Here’s a good up to date link “briefing” on the situation.
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Now go Google some more extremely outdated info!
so, the fact that the Engelstad Trust own the rights to the arena for another 20+ years means nothing?
thats right, the NCAA is forcing them to change the name, logo, etc. but the Trust can still step in and not let them use the arena anymore if they decide to. UND rents the arena, they do not own it. and it was purposely setup like this, so that the school could not change anything in the arena, without the Trust’s approval.
go ahead, try to prove me wrong again with your “facts”….or just go away, seeing you cannot win this argument.
Perch technically you are right, they could close the arena. Or raise the rent for events for UND to some unbelievable figure.
Here’s where common sense figures into this. If they raise the rent to where the U couldn’t afford to play there then what? Rent it out for cow shows? Rodeos? Monster truck shows? Bake sales? Point is it was built for hockey and hockey will always play there. No matter what the name of the team.
Also, it’s not the NCCA alone driving this, remember the Seminoles of Florida with their warrior and horse that rides around in a head dress, war paint & spear? Or even the Minnesota Gophers with their fierce Gopher mascot and all those teeth showing! Bucky Badger…………geesh, I have nightmares about him!
Some PC group got the tribes to go for it and push the issue, then the University system and the NCAA showed the spine of a jelly fish and caved. Plain and simple.
Think they would cave if it was Florida State who generates millions for the NCAA each year? Better yet, why hasn’t the NFL caved…………….
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Perch technically you are right, they could close the arena. Or raise the rent for events for UND to some unbelievable figure.
Here’s where common sense figures into this. If they raise the rent to where the U couldn’t afford to play there then what? Rent it out for cow shows? Rodeos? Monster truck shows? Bake sales? Point is it was built for hockey and hockey will always play there. No matter what the name of the team.
Also, it’s not the NCCA alone driving this, remember the Seminoles of Florida with their warrior and horse that rides around in a head dress, war paint & spear? Or even the Minnesota Gophers with their fierce Gopher mascot and all those teeth showing! Bucky Badger…………geesh, I have nightmares about him!
Some PC group got the tribes to go for it and push the issue, then the University system and the NCAA showed the spine of a jelly fish and caved. Plain and simple.
Think they would cave if it was Florida State who generates millions for the NCAA each year? Better yet, why hasn’t the NFL caved…………….
Right On Brian!
Now back to my popcorn. 
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Now go Google some more extremely outdated info!
so, the fact that the Engelstad Trust own the rights to the arena for another 20+ years means nothing?
thats right, the NCAA is forcing them to change the name, logo, etc. but the Trust can still step in and not let them use the arena anymore if they decide to. UND rents the arena, they do not own it. and it was purposely setup like this, so that the school could not change anything in the arena, without the Trust’s approval.
go ahead, try to prove me wrong again with your “facts”….or just go away, seeing you cannot win this argument.
It depends on your definition of nothing if you are sticking to your fantasy land non-sense scenario that the Ralph will be closed or imploded.
Then yes, the Engelstad Trust means nothing…of course those of us who actually follow Sioux Hockey and the logo controversy already know that Ralph Englestad, the Englgestad Family or trust would NEVER EVER let that happen!
The Ralph may be closing and the Sioux have to find another state of the art arena to play hockey in, in North Dakota…ROTFLMAO..Good one Perch!
Brian the difference or theory in the Redskins and Cleveland Indians logo’s is they are private entity’s and UND is a state school using public funds!
I’m still not sure why Standing Rock hasn’t or won’t vote on this! I expect one last attempt to get this done which would save the Ralph err umm I mean the logo..
It’s just very frustrating to me and I don’t even like the Sioux Hockey team. I can only imagine how the fans and alum are feeling!
Here is some more current stuff from Brad Schlossman!
This comes from Brad Schlossman this morning, courtesy of Forum Communications and the Grand Forks Herald: GRAND FORKS – There’s a quote painted in the University of North Dakota’s locker room at Ralph Engelstad Arena reminding the players to honor the Sioux tribes in how they perform and carry themselves on the ice for each men’s hockey game. Even if the team is not wearing the Fighting Sioux logo on its jerseys in the future, coach Dave Hakstol says the team’s approach won’t change. “I can’t begin to put into perspective what that means inside of our locker room,” Hakstol said. “I can tell you it is very important and something we take very seriously. It’s something we will continue to carry forward. I want to make sure we honor the traditions of the Fighting Sioux in the right way. The decision was made, a decision out of control of the program, that we have parameters in front of us to move forward.” “Something that’s very important to me is to make sure we properly honor the traditions and make sure there is never anything of negative connotation associated with the Fighting Sioux name attached to the reason we changed it.” Hakstol joined other high-profile coaches at UND on Friday morning at Hyslop Sports Center to address the media in the wake of Thursday’s decision by the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. Like Hakstol, football coach Chris Mussman, women’s basketball coach Gene Roebuck and men’s basketball coach Brian Jones all expressed disappointment in Thursday’s developments. They all talked about traditions their teams carry in relation to the nickname and how they don’t see any of them changing. Even Roebuck, whose team may find conference affiliation because of the decision, couldn’t find much happiness in it. “If given the choice of keeping the name or getting into the Summit,” Roebuck said, “I’d definitely go with the Fighting Sioux. “I lived 18 years right around the Spirit Lake nation. I got to know a lot of Spirit Lake Native Americans who I call my friends. I think it’s a sad day. Sixty-seven percent of the people spoke and only 33 percent were heard. To me, that’s not what it should be about. We live in a democratic society. “I think the people at Spirit Lake needed to be heard. I really believe the people at Standing Rock, if given the opportunity to be heard, would have followed in Spirit Lake’s footsteps.” Mussman said he received a call Thursday night informing him of the board’s decision. He said it was a strange feeling knowing that the nickname and logo will be retired. “We have so many traditions within our program and we take pride in representing the Sioux,” he said. “That won’t go away. It’s not going to disappear overnight. We’re going to cherish the time we do have to represent it and we’re going to continue to represent it in a positive way.”
Published April 10 2010 By: Steve Fool Bear, FORT YATES, N.D. — Who is responsible for the possible loss of the UND Fighting Sioux nickname and logo? Was it the anti-logo few? Was it the State Board of Higher Education? Was it the president of UND? Was it the Standing Rock tribal council? Or was it us? A great coach once told me, “Evil can flourish when good men do nothing.” The blame lies on us all — the vast number of Fighting Sioux supporters who stood by, idling, apathetic and fearful of racist and sell-out labels, and let it happen. The divisive few gained their foothold and now have disrupted our progressive society. The great majority of both Sioux nations and North Dakotans support the use of the logo, yet it will be eliminated soon if nothing is done. Although many anti-logo activists may view this as a victory and the near end of their fight, I can tell them as being one the thousands of Standing Rock tribal members whose civil rights have been trampled on that this fight has just begun. The movement has been successful in its petty cause of removing a logo, but at what cost? Indian people’s civil rights once again have been ignored, not only by the Standing Rock tribal leaders and the higher education board, but by anti-nickname activists as well. Not one anti-nickname activist stood up for the real issues this debate revealed. Not one protested or screamed for his or her people’s rights. To the contrary, the activists fought tooth and nail to make sure those voices were silenced — all due to a silly idea of some obscure Indian victory. Political correctness has nothing to do with Sioux values; the activists either had forgotten or ignored the fact that we represent the exact opposite. But those whom the activists ignored will not forget. It’s now the responsibility of all the people of North Dakota, both Indian and non-Indian, to quit talking and start doing. This is the last act of the show; who will be in it? It’s amazing what one phone call or letter can accomplish. Imagine what 10,000 can do. The name and logo will never die, because the real issues concerning them never were dealt with. The people of Standing Rock will be heard one way or another. If ever there was a time for North Dakotans to come together in unity, this is it. Common sense and democracy will prevail, but it will take everyone’s efforts. The truth will be revealed: The Sioux people are neither victims, hypocrites nor the enemies of North Dakota. It is the 21st century, and “We are all Fighting Sioux.” Fool Bear is a member of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe
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Perch technically you are right, they could close the arena.
By: Brad Elliott Schlossman, Grand Forks Herald . Despite Thursday’s ruling by the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education to begin retiring the Fighting Sioux name and logo, the privately owned arena — with an estimated 3,000 Sioux logos in it — might remain in its current state. Speaking from Chicago, Hodgson again debunked the urban legend that there’s a secret document from Ralph Engelstad calling for the closing of the 11,640-seat venue if the nickname ever changes. In fact, Hodgson says it is his wish that nothing changes at all.
OOOOPS!.. thanks for playing Rookie better luck next time! 
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