ETHANOL… (again)… How about in trucks??

  • whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #1266199

    Seems like the ethanol/boat post is a never ending debate….

    But… What about in trucks?

    I have a 2002 Chevy Silverado. It’s NOT designed to use E-85.

    I always fill up my boat, lawnmower, rototiller, wheeler, etc, with non-ethanol gas. Should I do the same with my truck? I usually just use the cheap “10% ethanol” gas in our vehicles. Premium gas is the only gas in my area that is available without ethanol….

    I haven’t done a MPG comparison between the cheap stuff and the premium. Even though premium is more expensive initially, it would be interesting to know if I get better gas milage using premium vs regular 10%. (And ultimately find out if the premium is actually less expensive in the long run).

    In theory, I have heard that gas milage decreases by 3% for every 10% ethanol addition. Generally, premium costs somewhere around 6% more than the regular.

    Will the ethanol affect my truck adversely over time, or is it not as big of an issue since the gas gets turned over with fresh stuff relatively frequently?? Would it just be better to use premium ever fill?

    Anyone do any MPG comparisons with regular VS non-ETOH premium?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    red89
    Hudson
    Posts: 918
    #844371

    Are you sure that the gas you are getting is actually ethanol free? I have a feeling that just about all gas has it now, and I don’t even know a place to find gas without it. I hate the stuff, they put in an ethanol plant a mile away from our house, its an eyesore, and the stuff does not get good mpg, and requires tons of gas to make it. The trucks bringing the corn to the plant are not running on ethanol and neither are the trucks shipping the stuff out. But you can’t do anything about it, so I don’t even know why im writing this. lol. Do a lot of you assume that just because there is no ethanol sticker on the gas pump, that means there is no ethanol in it? Is there any easy way to test it? I would do some mpg tests if i could get some gas that I knew did not have ethanol in it.

    ace_hurlburt
    Stillwater MN / Houston Tx
    Posts: 131
    #844372

    Unless it specfically says ” no ethanol” chances are there is 10% or more in the gasoline. A lot of high octane gas use ethanol to raise the octane levels. My suggestion would be to use an additive such as marvel or schaeffer has one called neutra fuel stabilizer. These products basically add back in the lubrication needed to combat the dry burn of Ethanol.

    Ace

    bassn7
    Bruce,WI
    Posts: 776
    #844373

    I don’t know if it matters much in a tow vehicle,they are built for use w/10% ethanol, I worry more about it in the boat because of the water and the ability of ethanol too absorb h20 and the effect ethanol has on your hoses and gasket in the motor

    Stan

    ace_hurlburt
    Stillwater MN / Houston Tx
    Posts: 131
    #844376

    Also, I did studies WIth flint hills refinery and their Chief Chemist a few years back. His name was Hoon Ge. There were many studies done to show efficiency against regular and premium gasoline. As far as getting a return on the additional investment in terms of fuel efficiency, there is none. You will never see enough fuel economy increase to make up the difference in the cost. Higher performance cars require a higher octane fuel to operate at their maximum potential but this does not mean that the more expensive premium fuel is giving any better fuel economy. Unless specified, i’d use 87.

    joshbjork
    Center of Iowa
    Posts: 727
    #844384

    Vehicles are made for it. You might get that dreaded 2% less mpg. You also support an American industry. It pollutes a little less, it gives people (where I live) jobs and it keeps your fuel system clean. Some of the by products get fed to cattle and whatever.

    If you were going to put your truck into cold storage for a year, I wouldn’t want it to be the last tank of fuel but that’s another matter. I put it in anything that doesn’t sit. I think it’s great to support the midwest rather than giving it to other countries that aren’t that fond of the USA.

    To further the point, if you’re looking for a pheasant or deer hunting spot, it might be to your advantage to have a giant E85 sticker on the back of your truck, at least around my area!

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #844388

    As far as knowing if it has 10% ETOH or not, anytime I don’t see a sign either way I assume it has it. However, I know of 3 gas stations in my area (Eau Claire) that have signs on their premium pumps that the premium is indeed ethanol free. I have talked to the attendants, and it is certainly possible that I (the public) is being lied to by the corporate office… But if there is a sign that clearly states “ETHANOL FREE”, I certainly hope that I can believe it.

    Quote:


    You also support an American industry. It pollutes a little less, it gives people (where I live) jobs and it keeps your fuel system clean.

    To further the point, if you’re looking for a pheasant or deer hunting spot, it might be to your advantage to have a giant E85 sticker on the back of your truck, at least around my area!


    I totally understand this point, and I realize why farmers, etc support it as being an American product… The following is probably an incorrect fact, but I once read that it takes 0.8 gallons of diesel or the equivalent BTU’s to manufacture 1 gallon of ethanol. If this is true, ethanol just doesn’t make much sense. We pay for 0.8 gallons of foreign oil to make 1 gallon of an “American Product”… I don’t see how an end total of 1.8 gallons of an ethanol/gas pollutes less than 1 gallon of gas. Like I said, the numbers in the above example are probably incorrect (depending on who you ask… I’m sure you get two stories when you talk to the farmers vs the oil corporations)…. But you still burn a lot of energy to produce it, and then you again burn your end product… This is once side of it… Obviously American jobs, farmers, etc are extremely important…. I don’t know enough about the subject to know where the balance lies. Continued improvement in alternate fuels is certainly a necessity….

    As far as pheasant hunting, if the farmers keep plowing under the CRP lands to make more corn fields, there won’t be any more pheasant left to hunt anyway. (Or ducks, or deer, or whatever uses grasslands, wetlands, etc…) Pollution, fertilizer runnoff, floods, etc will exponentially increase. The newer grassland-based ethanol production methods look more promising than corn-based products, and it’s way better for the environment, pollution control, wildlife, etc… Potentially still creates/keeps American jobs, and is less taxing on the environment. Maybe a better option than corn???? Again, I’m no expert and probably don’t have my facts straight.. Don’t blast me for this post, I freely admit I could be wrong.

    I guess I just don’t know enough about it to understand ethanol. They built a huge plant in S. MN by Fairmont… I think it was open a couple of years and then closed down. (?) Ouch. Maybe they could re-open as a vodka distillery… Of course, I’m no expert, and my facts could very well be (and probably are) incorrect.

    joshbjork
    Center of Iowa
    Posts: 727
    #844409

    Something like this link explains a bit. http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id18.html

    I am not a fact man. I do know that there are factors at work that few of us think about. An oil shortage puts our country at instant crisis. A food shortage is worse and has happened to this country before. Keeping farmers farming prevents potential disaster so the government will keep them going one way or the other.

    Even if there were no energy gain, we get less pollution, distiller’s grain, corn oil, corn syrup, CO2, and jobs in the midwest out of the deal. We have a tiny fuel reserve in case of war or whatever.

    I see a lot of people thinking that it would be better to make alcohol out of other things but corn is so multipurpose it’s hard to beat. If you’re raising grass and the industry takes a dive, you’re sitting there with a field full of one-purpose grass. Can you store it? Can you store sugarcane? I have no clue. Can you go broke when you only have one place to sell and they hit hard times? Yeah.

    I’m under the impression that the govt has cut CRP acres down a lot in the last decade or so. Budget cut. I wish there was a buffer around every stream in my state. Maybe then the water wouldn’t be green all summer but that’s another subject.

    tom_gursky
    Michigan's Upper Peninsula(Iron Mountain)
    Posts: 4751
    #844425

    I hear both of VERY clearly…My problem is a different twist on this issue. Why are we selling grain, wheat, corn to the Oil producing Cartel countries and others for a few bucks a bushel and pay $100 a barrel for their “crop”????
    Lets see them make bread out of crude!

    BTW…the new diesel technology coming out blows the doors off of any other internal combustion, or semi electric powered vehicle…for fuel efficiency and emmissions.

    whittsend
    Posts: 2389
    #844494

    I’ll keep this going a little more off topic…

    I’ve also heard good things about the “new” diesel. I’m highly considering one for my next vehicle, especially if I buy a car. Many of the newer ones get over 50 mpg on diesel, which is better than many of the hybrids I believe… Regarding the hybrids, batteries, etc… I’ve also heard that it takes more oil/energy/etc to recycle one of those fancy batteries and/or hybrid systems than what they stand to conserve…. Again, I cannot back this up, it was something I remember hearing somewhere… Maybe its just oil company propaganda…

    Anyway we are currently far from the ideal energy solution… And I’ll tip my hat to the hard working midwest farmers any day of the week, even if I’m not totally sold on corn-ahol…

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