EPA Declares CO2 a Pollutant?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091208/ap_on_bi_ge/climate_epa

This coupled with Healthcare reform will forever handcuff the middle class and create an even bigger divide from the wealthy to poor. It at best will damper our economy and at worst, cripple it. There will be a domino effect as costs go up for the energy sector in raising the cost of energy, goods and job loss. Job loss because energy companies will have to allocate money away from new hires to curbing costs. The same will go for businesses who will have to make up for higher cost of goods and energy. Marry that with our higher cost of living expenses for not only energy, but also a rise in the cost of goods and services. Not good.

I don’t like it. My greatest wish for America is a strong economy. Without it we cannot get anything done and our quality of life goes down. I don’t like where this is headed.

The article states a $60B cost to the auto industry alone. Yet they throw out a $250B savings? Care to elaborate on those benefits?

How does everyone else feel about it?

It all sucks. There is no scientific evidence of global warming. Haven’t these people ever heard of the up and down cycles in the climate? They and Al Gore should all be sued for duping the American public.
My 2 cents!

There are so many that are so heavily invested in this fraud that, even though global temps have not risen since 1998 and are actually falling, they are pushing as hard and as fast as they can right now to get these changes made. They have to get this done before it all unravels on them and they are exposed. The hacked e-mails between the leading climate change scientists come right out and say that the data is BS. You’re right Pug this crap has to be stopped before they have us all living in urban core areas and riding yellow bikes.

dd

Don’t they mean CO (carbon monoxide) and not CO2?

I’m pretty sure CO2 is what we exhale.

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mainly carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels — should be reduced, if not by Congress then by the agency responsible for enforcing air pollution.

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I now live in the Sunshine State. (Florida that is) When I lived in Wisconsin, my home was in the area of the state that would have been under hundreds of feet of ice from a glacier 10,000 years ago. I was very thankful for “global warming”.

Call it climate change,global warming…whatever you want.I think you’d have a tough time convincing these folks and millions of others in the same predicament,that it’s not real.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/12/03/shishmaref.alaska.climate.change/index.html

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Call it climate change,global warming…whatever you want.I think you’d have a tough time convincing these folks and millions of others in the same predicament,that it’s not real.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/12/03/shishmaref.alaska.climate.change/index.html

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The debate has never been about the earth warming.

Its about man made global warming.

The earth goes through warming and cooling cycles. It always has and always will.

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How does everyone else feel about it?

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It is easy to want to disregard the findings of global pollution/warming. It is not so easy to dismiss things that are factually happening. Take a look at Las Vegas. There, you can get above the city and look down without obstruction, unlike most cities. There is a brown/gray cloud of smog that hangs over Las Vegas all the time. Every city is like that and we create it with our home heating, cars and power plants. When you combine that world wide, it is huge.

It is easy to dismiss the statistics because our window is so small compared to the earth’s history. How many years of data do we have, 100? 50? 20? What we need is 10,000 or better yet 10 million years of data. Then we could know something for real.

What we do know is that we are putting huge amounts of pollution into the atmosphere every day. There is a huge and growing hole in the ozone over Antarctica. The ozone layer keeps the sun from turning us into crispy critters. Ice chunks the size of Rhode Island are breaking off and drifting away to melt over months or years never to be replaced in our life time. Polor bears are not able to access the ice fields to hunt until later and later each year and are dying or getting smaller to accommodate their shrinking diet.

What scientists are trying to do is get us to address this problem because if we don’t the human race may be erased or certainly change from what it is now.

Don’t agree? Well, I’m too old for any of this to affect me much as I will likely die before it becomes that big a problem. Have young children? Better hope the scientists are wrong or be very afraid for them.

Can we make a difference? This is different, but illustrates a point. When I was in high school, I used to fish for carp near the old Pigs Eye sanitation plant in St. Paul. There were thousands of carp there. When the sanitation plant ran out of space, they simply pumped thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the Mississippi River. Those were the days before birth control pills so thousands of condoms were pumped into the river among other things.

Today with the pollution controls we have, there are very few carp in that area. They are still there, but greatly diminished. Now you catch channel cat and small mouth bass or even walleye.

We can make a difference and until we find out whether or not we are causing this problem, it would behoove us to act like we do and make some changes.

For some,the debate IS about the earth warming.The fact is,it doesn’t matter what you call it or or who you blame…it is happening.Can you say enviromental refugee?

I can’t say what I think because it will get to political and get this thread deleted. Read the 1st sentence of this article. Nuff said. Lies, lies, lies and more lies.

It would seem logical that as we continue to reduce air pollution, the climate warms. It would also seem logical that if we produced more air pollution, the climate would cool. Just look at the 70’s and the cover of time magazine at one point. We were headed for the next ice age.

What is more likely to happen is a major series of volcano activity around the globe. Over a number of years of activity essentially blocking out the sun. I’ll guarantee no one will be worried about global warming!

-J.

Funny, the earth’s population is expanding at levels that we will run out of room, desimate our wildlife and food sources and polute the world with our waste and we worry about gobal warming??

Al
Me thinks they picked golbal warming because its a more popular choice, not the most prudent…imho

You hit the nail on the head. Over population. That is the core of the problem!

-J.

Gray cloud over Las Vegas? Since when? The skies there are as clear as the BWCA.

The thing is that this isn’t about conservation or polution. It is about Global control. It is about some pompous buffoon becoming a billionaire with real money selling Monopoley Game like carbon credits. Look at the the people at the top and you can see what this silliness is about.

Nobody is going to argue against efficiency, conservation, and being a good steward to the planet. We have been doing that for years. I remember how filthy things were. But what is being proposed goes way beyond keeping the planet clean. It smacks of keeping the masses in line.

dd

Pollution is bad. Congress is bought and paid for by the rich folks who get get fat off energy production. So nothing gets fixed. Regulation of pollution is the EPAs job. They haven’t been doing their job lately. If it is more profitable to pollute less the market will create power with less pollution. I am sick in my soul every time I read about the mercury in the fish I like to eat. Perhaps producing green power might put some folks to work in this country. It seems some would like to have a country where polluters can just pollute forever unlimited in the name of economics. BS.

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Don’t agree? Well, I’m too old for any of this to affect me much as I will likely die before it becomes that big a problem. Have young children? Better hope the scientists are wrong or be very afraid for them.

We can make a difference and until we find out whether or not we are causing this problem, it would behoove us to act like we do and make some changes.

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You make it sound as if they want to make small changes. They want a drastic turnover to new energy sources. What I fear for my daughter is living in harder economic times than I have had to.

Industries have already moved towards more efficient use of energy and cleaner sources. These things are happening naturally to meet demand. However what the world leaders and global warming alarmists are trying to do is a complete passover to new more expensive and less efficient sources of energy and products that produce greenhouse gasses.

Hayward, it is CO2, not CO. CO breaks up readily in our atmosphere.

Wiki on Greenhouse Gases
You will notice the most significant greenhouse gas is water vapor. That’s the other side of this. They may be worried about turning off the gas grill while the house is burning down.

And how does anyone trust a community who at best fudged data? Not only that, but if you look at all of their global warming charts they present, not 1, that is not one based on the 5-6 most popular models they tout accounted for the cooling we have seen in the last decade or so. It was not even within the margin of error. Not accounting for the solar cycle. No accounting for other influences.

If a stock broker got me to invest in something with a chart similar to what I have seen with global warming and then he came back to me after my investments looking for more business…well, if my investments failed to follow his chart, I would take my business elsewhere.

Of course all of these people are betting that enough of us will say just look at all we pump into atmosphere. We must be doing something terribly wrong and then we just follow along with them.

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For some,the debate IS about the earth warming.The fact is,it doesn’t matter what you call it or or who you blame…it is happening.

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???? Do you mean the debate and/or laws are happening, or “global warming” / “climate change” is happening???

“Global warming” is totally unproven, and in many cases DISproven. Thats not to say that we shouldn’t clean up our act, stop polluting, invent/use green technology, use more common sense, etc, because of course we should do those things regardless of if G.W. exists or not….. But its impossible for humans to say with certainty that GW exists or does not exist.

From what I understand “warming” anomolies are in most cases due to land use, population changes, changes in measuring instruments over the years, etc… The Global warming “catastrophe” is a direct and blatant result of media hype. Media no longer gets attention and ratings unless they label everything with the words crisis, catastrophe or other doomsday words. Its a simple case of the media running with stories they are not qualified to run with. (Your trusted news sources are mostly uninformed talking heads trying to create spin on something they know NOTHING about, purely for ratings, viewership, $$$)

Think about how it is that you “know” that global warming is real (or not real). Where did you get that information? From years of scientific study, years of crunching data, and years of discussing the problem with experts in the field??? Tested and retested? Peer reviewed? No bias involved, period?? No, you got it from Ron Burgundy on the Channel 4 New Team. While Ron may be the cats a$$ of news anchors, he doesn’t know crap about the scientific points behind “global warming”.

If you’ve never read Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear”, its a very interesting read… Of course many of his books are anti-media (Airframe, etc…), but they are right on. Of course, books are also a form of biased media, so maybe my own arguement is rebuking itself in this case… The problem is that “News” today is more of a joke than anything. Pure shimmering entertainment, generally devoid of fact and common sense, truth stretched to the point of untruth. I am in the healhcare field, and cringe anytime I see or read any healcare related new article/video piece intended for the general public. ALMOST ALWAYS is the piece somewhat or totally wrong. I almost never find articles that present fact correctly and without bias. The only reason I read them anymore is so I can be ready for damage control when my misinformed patients ask me about it the next day.

Anyway, “global warming” has never been proven nor disproven, nor will it ever be. It is impossible for humans to do more than postulate theories and dogmas, neither of which are FACTS. To say otherwise is just plain silly. Thats the simple truth.

(disclaimer – I nor are most/any of the users on this site experts on this topic)

Boy, that was a good rant!! LOL

Between this and government run health care they are the new tools of socialism and governments attempt at complete control of every aspect of our lives. We better wake up and start screaming out at our ultra liberal president,congress and house of rep’s before they sell us out to third world countries and cram all this crap down our throats and we are silenced or jailed for being “unpatriotic” and not toeing the line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pollution is bad. Congress is bought and paid for by the rich folks who get get fat off energy production. So nothing gets fixed. Regulation of pollution is the EPAs job. They haven’t been doing their job lately.

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Comrad Kiev that is exactly what I would expect from you (sigh!) During the evil years before the current truth and enlightenment administration the hundreds of coal fired plants that opened, dozens of nuclear plants and oil refineries that opened and unrestrained oil drilling in ANWR and off the coasts in this country has brought us to the brink of a global environmental catastrophe…… Oh wait! None of that happened. Seems to me that an evil rich guy just can’t buy congress like he used to, unless he is George Soros.

dd

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“News” today is more of a joke than anything. Pure shimmering entertainment, generally devoid of fact and common sense,

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Gasp! You don’t think Tiger Woods is the most important national news available?

I love this thread. I might not agree with all that is being said, but it sure helps focus issues and ideas. Thanks all for contributing.

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Gasp! You don’t think Tiger Woods is the most important national news available?

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LOL

You are right, I could care less about Tiger… I could give two poops about Angelina and Brad, and don’t get my kicks from idolizing movie or music stars. I find it weird that so many people care so much about “stars” and other famous people who really should have VERY little influence on their lives…

I guess I always assume that most of us hunters and fishermen have, for the most part, normal levels of common sense. The ability to see through today’s BS and find what is really important is getting harder to do, especially for the kids born in the time of technology (“OMG, I’ll just DIE if I don’t get the new Blackberry!!!”) I’ll admit I do get caught up in unimportant “junk” on ocassion……

When I do find myself starting to get caught up in those sorts of (VERY) unimportant matters, its time to go hunting or fishing and get a reminder of what is truly important… Family, friends and the outdoors. And of course, the 9,000 Packer Vs Viking threads we have had this year on IDO.

Mike

Had this emailed to me today. CO2 is a pollutant, and we are concerned, but other countries do what they want.

GRAPHIC WARNING: Pollution in China

Farm,

If your buddy jumped off the Brooklyn bridge would you do it too?

This is slippery slope arguement. If China wasn’t the perp, Panama or somebody else would be and should we really try to be the lowest common denominator? If we felt we can’t compete with China if we don’t pollute, we can’t compete already.