Article about the Griz coast guard test for guides

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/77620347.html?page=1&c=y

Wow I didn’t know you had to be a rocket science major to clean ear wax out of your ear. I can’t beleive that they would require all of that stuff to guide on inland waters. There goes my dream of making money while doing something I love.

Don’t believe everything you read Joe. You should know that from reading my posts.

I know, I guess there is 2 side to every story. But they are making it kinda hard for a guy to make a living fishing though aren’t they? I don’t know since I do not guide on any of the waters mentioned.

That’s pretty pathetic when you have to be able to navigate Long Island Sound in order to guide on the Mississippi River.
It just begs to have guys by pass the law. I think that it is interesting that such short notice was given for the requirement and not a single case can be sited where unsafe conditions or ignorance of the law caused a problem.

The laws were there 41 years ago. 1968 they took effect.

Some of the things he’s talking about, I’ve never heard of before…and I had the same instructor that he’s using.

Both Mr. Anderson and Mr. Griz will portray the CG licensing in the worst possible light they can as I would like to show the other side of the story and try to keep the info accurate.

You won’t need a license for your waters Joe. However, it’s going to be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I predict one of two things will happen.

Either the licensing courses will change to more area and water specific licensing….or all guides will need to be licensed. Pure speculation on my part.

Trust me in this Joe. If you did need a CG license you would pass the class room testing with flying colors as long as you paid attention.

So the Griz was in the correct class?

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That’s pretty pathetic when you have to be able to navigate Long Island Sound in order to guide on the Mississippi River.
It just begs to have guys by pass the law. I think that it is interesting that such short notice was given for the requirement and not a single case can be sited where unsafe conditions or ignorance of the law caused a problem.

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The area used in the map is irrelevant. They could have used the Indian Ocean. It’s the method of navigation that was being taught.

The line about the Griz not knowing about this until he was contacted is bs in my opinion. I was watching a Kent Hrbek show a few years back filmed on Rainy for sturgeon…it started off with something very close to…The Griz is not guiding me, we are just fishing together”. I thought it was an odd thing to say, except that it releases him from having the license that he didn’t have. But then again, as he said, his retention isn’t that good.

Yes he was Dan.

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Yes he was Dan.

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Is there a mandatory waiting period before one can re-test?

Is there an additional cost to re-test or do you have to

start all over? (Classes plus test at original cost)

Just curious what kind of setback there is if you don’t

pass the test the first time.

Thanks.

There are five test taken at the time of testing. The longest test is less than 20 questions and one test is 5 questions long.

If a person fails one or all of the above tests, they can take the test(s) they fail over again up to two more times.

When I asked the instructor how many people have failed all three times they could take the test he said “none”. Maybe this will change now?

No “mandatory” waiting period that I’m aware of. But the instructor would go over the test or tests contents proir to giving the test(s) again.

Knowing Gary from Explorerguidellc I’m going to bet a quarter the Griz will be back on the water unless there’s a background, health or drug issue. Heck, I’ll put 50 cents on it.

Where’s the instant graemlin thats stirring the pot

Don’t care bout Griz,did RRR pass??

I don’t understand all the “uproar” about all this. I remember a few years ago when many of the guides that frequent this site were all taking this class, etc. It’s not new. If we have laws, then we need to enforce them. If we don’t like them, we need to contact our representatives to see if they can be changed.

I wonder if the boys down in southern IL need this to guide on the lakes down there.

Interesting that you are ok with the feds. having their nose into every aspect of your life!

As part of the process are the guides required to log all of their clients and turn the information over to the Coast Guard? I assume the Coast Guard will do follow up spot interviews with clients to ask if the craft was safe, had safety gear, guide was knowledgeable ect.

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you are ok with the feds. having their nose into every aspect of your life!

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Right or wrong, “feds” or no “feds”…it’s the law.

The uproar comes from folks operating a business without a license. Before, without enforcement they could do it voluntary or just ignore it. Now they have to comply. Unless they have a criminal background, use drugs, short on the require time one the water or have a physical issue..it’s not a big deal.

Gary’s having a class in St. Paul starting on Dec 10th and anyone that should be guiding, can be guiding…and legally by the end of January.

My hat’s off to the guides that attended both Gary’s and Ted’s class over the last few weeks. Whether the were taught anything or not, it says something about their conviction to their guiding business. These guys didn’t HAVE to get a license. They could have given up guiding, sat back and complained about the bad Coast Guard that put them out of business.

To the folks that condone breaking the law….well, we will have to agree to disagree.

Stuart, RRR passed his testing and should be Captain RRR by January I’m guessing.

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As part of the process are the guides required to log all of their clients and turn the information over to the Coast Guard? I assume the Coast Guard will do follow up spot interviews with clients to ask if the craft was safe, had safety gear, guide was knowledgeable ect.

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No sir.

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As part of the process are the guides required to log all of their clients and turn the information over to the Coast Guard? I assume the Coast Guard will do follow up spot interviews with clients to ask if the craft was safe, had safety gear, guide was knowledgeable ect.

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No sir.

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So then, the license is just a “tax” designed for guides on Federal waters? So, when the State follows up with their “tax” license will you have to pay up to Minnesota also or will your Federal “tax” license cover lakes also?

I can see it now……………3 license, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa PLUS the Federal to guide down in Southern Mn.

Remember, you can put lipstick on a pig. But it’s still a pig.

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Right or wrong, “feds” or no “feds”…it’s the law.

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Or, if you don’t like the law, work to have it changed.

-J.

So I am thinking can these guys that have been guiding without the proper CG license probably are not insured then either? Could they be without the license? In this day, you would be putting everything on the line by not having the license. You can’t build a house with out a license, you can’t teach without one, all the trades are regulated.

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There are five test taken at the time of testing. The longest test is less than 20 questions and one test is 5 questions long.

If a person fails one or all of the above tests, they can take the test(s) they fail over again up to two more times.

When I asked the instructor how many people have failed all three times they could take the test he said “none”. Maybe this will change now?

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BK One of tests has 60 ?s on it. There is another test that is 20 or 30 ?s and you have to have 90% to pass.

Congrats on passing the test Captain River Rat Randy

I will probably never be a guide due to having to deal with “characters”, but I’d like to answer from the point of a frequent client. If I had to make a choice between two differrent guides of similar fishing skills I would choose the one that has put forth the effort and taken the classes and has a certificate. My assumption is that some of or most of the classes have something to do with safety and knowing how to handle a craft in all types of weather and situations. I’d feel more confident and safer to have a guide that truly cares about their client.

CRRR, each instructor has it’s own set of tests that are approved by the CG. Since you use Ted as an instructor, your tests may have been different to the number of questions per test.

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So I am thinking can these guys that have been guiding without the proper CG license probably are not insured then either?

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Regular boat insurance does not cover “for hire” or tourney fishing. If a guide does have commercial insurance, his insurance company will point out that the guide didn’t have proper licensing and does not have to pay the claim.

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Or, if you don’t like the law, work to have it changed.

-J.

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Exactly!

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Regular boat insurance does not cover “for hire” or tourney fishing. If a guide does have commercial insurance, his insurance company will point out that the guide didn’t have proper licensing and does not have to pay the claim.

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You got that right. On Upper Red Lake a international water due to the sovereign nation on the other side I by law have to have a six pack license, commercial insurance WITH underwriting pertaining to chartered waters, six or less occupants within the watercraft, proper safety and emergency gear and in my commercial policy many many lines about drugs, alcohol and boat inspections. If the Coast Guard doesn’t get you for having a orange flare verses a red flare or not having the proper ship whistle the insurance company will get you for not giving all of your passengers a turn on the breathalyzer before boarding. (yes they do “suggest” us to perform breathalyzer test on clients) and don’t even get me started on the two page waiver for the insurance company and ships log that must be maintained. And all of this is to take an 18’ Crestliner on Upper Red Lake or the Rainy River for hire…and people ask why guides charge so much.

Now don’t get me wrong I understand the need for law and order but this offshore training for inland fisheries is out of hand. I took the course and still would not venture onto the Mississippi river without an experienced river guide/fisherman. I have spent some of time on the Sippi and Minnesota rivers in barge and lock country and still do not have a clue to what is truly going on and I am supposed to have a license that says I do? Put me on a almost frozen water with nine foot seas and I will sing you song while I bring safely back in when the bottom shows inbetween the waves but on that river I’ll put my faith in guys like Brain K, Griz , Holst, RRR, Steele and other river guides/pros that know what is the real deal is before I vest my wellbeing in a Coast Guard License.

It’s complete and utter bunk that all the sudden the USCG decides one day that “hey I think we’ll start enforcing this law that’s been on the books for decades.”

Not only that, but some of these so called Federal Navigable waters are a joke. Gimme a break. Vermilion is a Navigable water?

That’s great that there’s now a newfound way to make money giving all these classes and possible fines being levied, but seriously, how about a couple more hoops to jump through, there’s not enough yet.

The writing is on the wall. We will be seeing people finding loopholes and or just having “off the water” seminars and then selling GPS waypoints instead of going through the hassle.

For me, word of mouth and reputation will always far exceed a meaningless certification by some Federal bureaucratic agency.

How many of us agree that a specific “fishing guide and safety course” would be sufficient for all MN waters?

You just have to love this quote from a Dennis Anderson article a while back:

Also, licensed guides are welcome to — if not encouraged to — snitch on unlicensed guides to the Coast Guard, Nay conceded. Some guides who have lost business and income in recent weeks since the Coast Guard’s effort began say that’s what has occurred in this case (the Griz).

Breathalyzer, signal flares, drug tests, barge horns, phantoms, leagues, morse code.

Please

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Not only that, but some of these so called Federal Navigable waters are a joke. Gimme a break. Vermilion is a Navigable water?

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How about Upper Red? Its a freaking half circle cereal bowl! I can go round and round clockwise or I can go round and round counter clockwise but I can’t get out or navigate anywhere and the tamarac river runs out of room six miles up. We have zero obstructions, narrows, straights or shipping lanes. Heck we don’t even have bouys or becons and I am one of the biggest vessels on the lake at a whopping 18.5′ but I have a barge horn just incase a barge shows up! Maybe thats for pontoon boats or the other guide boat on the lake a larger 20 footer. I’m gonna barge horn him next time I see him to stay legal.

The only hazard is if you hit shore…and then you would have to go through a 1/8 mile of six inch deep water to get to shore…guessing it would be a slow impact.

Let the state boys take care of the inland land locked stuff, I don’t foresee a barge or any vessel over twenty five feet hauling goods from Waskish to the city of Red Lake anytime soon. The last one (“The Dalhberg” a steam paddle wheeler)sunk some time in the thirties…because the lake was to shallow for big vessells then and it still is now.