Timber Wolf Problem

This is a really good discussion and I can see where most everyone is coming from.

For the record I’ve heard a number of stories from the Red Lake area where the DNR gives you the wink wink and looks the other way on shooting wolves. I’ve even heard of a particular guy that was paid to manage various predators in that area for years. Is all of what I’ve heard true? Probably not but I’ve heard the same stories out of more than one person so I assume there has to be some truth?

It’s only a matter of time before the wolves get out of hand… some say that’s already happened. I for one would love to see a season on them.

It will probably take a jogger, hiker or small child to be attacked and killed before someone decides to do something about it.

Never in Minnesota has there been a documented, proven case of a wolf attack on a human.

Yet.

Alyshia Berzyck, of Minnesota, was attacked and killed by a wolf on a chain on June 3, 1989. The wolf tore up her kidney, liver and bit a hole through her aorta. One month later, on July 1, 1989, Peter Lemke, 5, lost 12 inches of his intestine and colon and suffered bites to his stomach, neck, legs, arms and back in another wolf attack in Kenyon, Minnesota.

Thanks big G for the research, difenently dead if they get close

How rapidly are they expanding to other parts of the state? I have yet to see one in Iowa!

I agree to achieve a desired outcome people have to ban together, and if a wolf hunt is the objective, people need to get together with a well presented plan and objective. Shooting wolves just to improve deer hunting won’t fly with anyone. Use the “bunny huggers” motives against themselves. Talk about all the pain and suffering the wolves are causing to other animals in the environment. Causing a strain on other species…

Wolves have a part in the scheme of things when it comes to nature, seems like when ever we change nature to benefit mankind, we end up with problems.

Not enough deer??? maybe explain that to the people who drive down stretches of roads and can’t hardly go for more than a day with out seeing deer guts along the side of the road.

If were going after the man killer wolves, why not add Bears to the list, heck I read of a fish that attacked a kid once, maybe remove all fish too??

You find a creature that’s attacking your stock, pets, family, etc, I’m all for shooting them, but you want to remove a animal just for more deer??

Not so sure I see the logic there, considering wolves are a part of the ecosystem and they serve a function in nature.

Probably missing something here though.

Al…who wishes he had a stir the pot icon now….

Timber wolf or grey wolf or both?

I know where I deer hunt there have been many many sightings of wolves during all hours of the day all year round. Many people who hunted up there opening weekend swore there were no deer around, however; when I hunted the second weekend, last weekend, I saw many and passed up many and still got two. I think the limits the previous years with the intensive harvest have as much to do with the declined numbers as natural selection. I also know I heard the wolves very close to the farm one evening howling and yipping like I have never heard before and it was spokey close.

If it were legal I would register/apply, whatever method to get a tag, but it’s not. I think the mentallity that is out there about, shoot, shovel, shut up is definitly being used, however; is that chance really worth it? I don’t think there will ever be a clean cut answer but there will definitly be discusssion.

Timber wolf and grey wolf are the same critter.

I find it interesting that the long term goal was established at something like 1500 animals in MN to be considered a stable, healthy population. (I may be off on my numbers, as I am going from memory alone here). With the current levels of 3000+, why on earth is a season on them here a taboo subject? Ridiculous.

In my area, I can walk any trail while grouse hunting and find multiple piles of wolf scat – and it is all loaded with deer hair. To be honest, I’ll bet the amount of wolf sign to deer sign in my immediate hunting area is more than 2 to 1.

There are MORE than enough of them, and I wish more people would practice the 3 S’s. Like I said earlier, I wouldn’t for fear of the incredible fines and such – but that is the ONLY reason I wouldn’t. If it were not such a huge offense, I’d be a gunner…….

Tim

Quote:

---

Alyshia Berzyck, of Minnesota, was attacked and killed by a wolf on a chain on June 3, 1989. The wolf tore up her kidney, liver and bit a hole through her aorta. One month later, on July 1, 1989, Peter Lemke, 5, lost 12 inches of his intestine and colon and suffered bites to his stomach, neck, legs, arms and back in another wolf attack in Kenyon, Minnesota.

---

Alright….There is no documented incidents of humans being attacked, or killed, by a wild wolf, not being held captive in any way. You need to take a trip to Kenyo and see what the area might hold for a wolf. The only way you’d see one there is on a leash or in a cage.

I know insurance companys have lobbied to get the deer herd reduced because of all the MV/deer accidents. You don’t see a lot of MV/wolf accidents so there is another reason it will be hard to get a wolf season. I think there are probably a lot of farmers who because of crop damage from deer and bear, also are taking the law into their own hands.

Quote:

---

I think there are probably a lot of farmers who because of crop damage from deer and bear, also are taking the law into their own hands.

---

To this I’d agree. The thing is though, they don’t blow their horn about it or how they’d like to on a public forum.

You don’t need to lobby the DNR or the legislature. That would take to long. Shooting them is not the answer. We can’t pick the fish and game laws to follow. Do not dispair… The answer is simple.

Turn over management of the wolf population in MN to Kevin McHale. In no time at all we’ll have a manageable docile wolf population.

To those who think we should lobby the government about the wolf problem, you may be right.

As the population of the varmints (wolves) grows rapidly, the deer population gets reduced, in return less hunters buy tags due to lack of deer.

When the DNR loses money from their cash cows (deer) then and only then will they take notice.

I have no problem with wolves in the wild, just not in my backyard. They should also not be hindering others during hunting (bear dogs) or interfering with people’s livelihood (ranchers). Once that occurs, and it has, they have moved into the pest or nuisance catagory and should be dealt with accordingly.

If someone kills a wolf, doesn’t that make them a poacher?

Quote:

---

If someone kills a wolf, doesn’t that make them a poacher?

---

That is 100% correct.

Quote:

---

There are folks out there that have trail camera pictures of bear in the spring running by the cameras with fawns in their mouths. Just rumors though.

---

Is there anyone here that has seen any of these pics? I have not, if they were out there I would think that we would have seen them show up here on IDO by now.

Quote:

---

if they were out there I would think that we would have seen them show up here on IDO by now.

---

Ummm….not everything that goes on in the area shows up on IDO If you honestly think bears do not eat fawns, try a little research and you will find that they do.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

If someone kills a wolf, doesn’t that make them a poacher?

---

That is 100% correct.

---

Wrongo. If somebody killed one in self defense, they would not be labled a poacher.

We have more than enough wolves. It is time for a reasonable season to be allowed.

Tim

Quote:

---

Wrongo. If somebody killed one in self defense, they would not be labled a poacher.

We have more than enough wolves. It is time for a reasonable season to be allowed.

Tim

---

I was told by a CO once that if someone shot a mountain lion “in self defense” the person better have scratches on them and the wound on the animal better be consistent with an attack.

Knew a guy who shot a Grizzly in Alaska “in self defense” because he didn’t follow the law about bringing the meat out first instead vs. antlers first. Had a Griz on his moose when he went back in for the meat. Those were some hefty fines he ended up paying and almost lost his gun and truck along with his moose.

There a always exceptions to the rule and I understand that. However I tend to not believe what’s told to me until all the facts are in.

Example #1, we had a guy have an approximate 10 minute stand off with a mountain lion at 50 feet out in Montana. They both walked away cause he didn’t over react and kill the lion.

Example #2, I’ve had encounters with wolves here in MN, never had the need to “shoot in self defense”. I agree with the COs, better have defensive wounds to justify an attack.

Example #3, Had Grizzly bear encounters in British Columbia. A little “barking” and posturing was it. No need to kill that bear.

I believe it’s a mind set in some people. I’ve taken numerous close up shots of rattle snakes. 9 times out of 10, when I showed those pictures to people. I’ve heard something along the lines of “Did you kill that snake? You should have.” No reason to kill that snake or any other of the predators we’ve ran into. At least in our situations.

What Ruger states here pretty much sums up the attitude about “required” killing.

Nobody is contesting the fact that there may be too many wolves. Promoting un-ethical killing is the problem in the thread. While many feel as though this isuue is one of state nature, it is the Fed that has the controls in place. No state can supercede the Fed’s endangered species act. Anyone feeling as though they have a legitimate issue surrounding these animals should contact their legislators and quit dunning those who have no control. More than anything, the promotion of illegal killing of these animals in an open forum such as this is just wrong and certainly says little for those who urge it and for those who allow it.

Its been stated earlier that people don’t get these animals in their back yards….the people are the ones in the animal’s yard. How true.

While I can see where the orginal post might cause some alarm, consider this. Anyone who is planting a food plot to attarct deer in an area know the harbor wolves may likely be setting the stage for a wholesale deer kill….the deer will use this food plot because they know the food is there. Deer attract the wolves. Its almost like bear hunting over bait, eh? More than anything with deer though is that they go in cycles….maybe this area is just running low right now. Any healthy deer can outrun any wolf in wooded land and its likely that the ones being found dead from wolves, if it was a wolf, probably wasn’t real healthy to start with. Or it could be that clearing the land to plant deer food simply offered the wolves more opportunity.

Wolves go out of their way to avoid humans. They don’t want the interaction with man. Sometimes the paths cross, like at our cabin north of Two harbors. We see wolves on occasion on the roads around the area there, even see one now and again in the yard or on one of our trails. We’ll find a kill site every once in a while. Its nature, not a reason to go on a shooting spree.

All this crap about shooting these animals without regard for what the laws say can be done hurts what this site stands for. If you have a problem with wolves, prove it to the federal government…the states’ have their hands tied. And you can blame that on tree huggers. Maybe youd want to hunt them too.

Legitimate question…..I am not up on all of the legality if the listing/delisting issues. If Montana and Idaho can open a season on them, can’t MN also do that? I was under the impression that it was now a state issue and that our state DNR could implement a regulated season if they wish. In an above post, it is stated that the issue is a federal one. I am not sure what is correct.

As far as promoting the shooting of them, I stand by my comments. I wish more people would shoot….I feel we have too many wolves and I see our DNR doing NOTHING to change that. The more people that do it, the better, IMO.

Tim

Quote:

---

As far as promoting the shooting of them, I stand by my comments. I wish more people would shoot….I feel we have too many wolves and I see our DNR doing NOTHING to change that. The more people that do it, the better, IMO. Tim

---

Well Tim, It’s not my place to tell you that you are right or wrong. The courts have already done that. You can make your own decision.

I will tell you that I hope I see you or others like you shooting a wolf or telling the story. I will be the first one to turn you or anyone else in for stealing a resource from me.

Quote:

---

Legitimate question…..I am not up on all of the legality if the listing/delisting issues. If Montana and Idaho can open a season on them, can’t MN also do that? I was under the impression that it was now a state issue and that our state DNR could implement a regulated season if they wish. In an above post, it is stated that the issue is a federal one. I am not sure what is correct.

Tim

---

I’ll answer the first half and ignore the deleted portion.

The federal government can declare any aninmal as endangered state by state. Wolves may exist in Minnesota and in North Dakota. The government might declare them endangered in Minnesota and not in North Dakota. Simply because one state may not have an endangered species, it doesn’t mean another state won’t have the same species listed as endangered.

Its my guess that the wolf will stay endangered as long as sites like this allow rogues such as yourself to talk about and support the illegal killing of the animals, thus creating a shortfall in adequate numbers to support future removal from that list. Just remember now….this is a federal felony if you get caught using them as targets. You’ll do your time right up there with the Gauntanamo Arabs, an apt place for lawbreakers.

Quote:

---

….I feel we have too many wolves

---

Oh well if Tim feels…

Quote:

---

Any healthy deer can outrun any wolf in wooded land and its likely that the ones being found dead from wolves, if it was a wolf, probably wasn’t real healthy to start with.

---

Seriously, you honestly beleive that statement? Seriously, you must be joking. If you think the only deer that wolves kill are the weak and old, you really should do some research on this.
Here are a just a couple examples:
#1 Winter time with high snow levels. Wolves can run on to of the snow while deer cannot. Wolves have a clear advantage and target any and all deer.

#2 Wolves hunt in packs right? Yes, I am correct. Wolves run healthy deer to the point of exhaustion and then move in for the easy kill.

There has also been research that shows wolves are also killing for the thrill. They have been taking down deer and then not even eating them.

For all the people on here who think they are better than everyone else because the only opinion that matters is yours. This morning when you woke up you put your pants on the same way I did, one leg at a time. You and your opinion are no better than mine or anybody else’s.
You can argue all day about the wolves and how they should not be touched, I can respect your opinion. I also don’t plan on trying to change your mind because it isn’t going to happen, I realize that.
But, for the people who head up north once a year to join in the great pumpkin army and hunt for deer. You are there a short amount of time and do not see or deal with the reality of a high population of this type of predator and their effects.
My mind is rooted deep with the history of the devastation they have done to the cattle and sheep industry in the past. If allowed history will repeat itself and people will be dealing with them again. Maybe that is a good thing, the government trappers will be back in business. We can start shooting them from planes and baiting and poisoning them again.

I vaguely remember a video that someone had posted with what people has suspected was “thrill killing” by wolves. I was very interesting and bit eye opening. I don’t hunt, and honestly don’t know enough to have an educated opinion on the subject. But I certainly think that we can all benefit from the dialogue that has been started if we all approach it with open eyes and ears.

FDR

CT – thanks for the explanation. That clears up a few Q’s for me.

Ruger – You will NEVER hear of or see me shooting an endangered species. Like I said before, I have horrid luck and am fearful of the high penalties. I would get caught instantly. The high fines and jail time are serving as an effective deterrent for me, but I am sure there are plenty of people out there that would take the chance, and if I hear about them doing it, I sure as heck will not be calling it in.

Tim