History before our eyes?, End of Days? or Both?

A different take on all of this…
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/reinhardt.health.inflation/index.html

Great proof that both sides have their liberal views and likely neither is completely right or wrong. Sadly, level headed guys like everyone here is not being represented fairly by our elected officials. We all know there is a happy medium. However, we all also know there is no way we’ll find it. Money talks and politicians simply fold to the highest bidder. I’m pretty sure the word inetgrity is not allow to be spoken, written or even thought in Washington DC. We send so many great people to that city, why don’t they ever return the same way???

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Food for thought… for every lobbyist and special interest group…. there are taxpayers footing the bill for them to fight for it….

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Not entirely true…unless of course you’re including corporations.They do,after all,pay taxes….well,some do.Big businesses,with a lot to gain or lose,are far and away THE most represented entities,by lobbyists and special interest groups.

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Food for thought… for every lobbyist and special interest group…. there are taxpayers footing the bill for them to fight for it….

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Not true…unless of course you mean corporations.They do,after all,pay taxes….well,some do.Big businesses,with a lot to gain or lose,are far and away THE most represented entities,by lobbyists and special interest groups.

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You disproved your own theory …..

“You disproved your own theory”
What theory???? A theory is speculation and there is no speculation here.And thanks but,it’s not mine anyway.

You speculated that my statement was Not true… you said so yourself, first words…. then went on to disprove your own theory…. big business does pay tax…. we support big business, which helps them pay tax…. so they can hire lobbyists….its a viscious cycle…. funded by tax payers….

big G

“Not true…unless of course you mean corporations.”

In case you didn’t get it,”Unless of course you mean corporations” was acknowleging that very fact.

You are correct in saying it is a vicious cycle.I for one would like to see the entire lobbyist/special interest circus outlawed.

Touche’… everybody pays taxes….supposedly I too agree…. whoever has the most money shouldn’t win…. it should go on its own merits. The sitting president talked alot about bringing common sense and rooting out corruption, we shall see if he remembers that promise.

big G

I don’t think he can root out all corruption and probably not even half, I think its too deeply rooted and all bought by big money.

He would have to turn his back on all his buddies if he was to root out corruption.

He who does not try… is destined to fail….

big G

I just got off the phone with a guy who works for Quest telephone service and is located in Ontario Canada. I had to ask him about the Canadian health care system to try to find out what I could to try to descipher what I’ve heard in the past and what others have said. I was amazed at what I heard and had to ask him a couple times if what I was hearing was right. He said theres no big lines to wait in if you get hurt. No lines at the doctors office, you make an appointment and go to that appointment. If you have a serious injury you get right in, the more serious the injury depends on how soon you get in. If you get a cut or scrape and someone comes in with a broken arm they get priority first. He said theres no waiting lines like what I’ve heard there is. He said depending on where you live they find a doctor for you so you don’t have to go as far and you can see one close to you.

It sounds just like what we have here and the way things are being done here so I have to ask whats all the stuff I’ve heard in the past, truth or bull. Anyone else know anyone or talked to anyone in Canada and what have they heard. How come all I’ve heard seems to be the way things aren’t done up there, political and big business hype? I just talked to him 20 minutes ago.

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I was amazed at what I heard and had to ask him a couple times if what I was hearing was right.

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I think that was probably just the accent, aye?

How are the taxes in Canada? Every time I’ve been there, gas, alcohol, tobacco, etc… cost an arm and a leg more than the us…

The problem with a free or near free system is it gets abused huge. Not by everyone, but there are individuals who definately ride the system and ruin it for the rest of us. Take a look at medicaid. Its the *best* health care plan around, and its basically free to qualifying people. Many people use it wisely, but I see a lot of people who blatantly abuse the system. Waste thousands and thousands of taxpayer $$ many times for litte reason. Go to the ER for no reason… have to have the $400 brand Rx vs the $10 generic “just because”… Have $10,000 in labs and scans to find out you just have bad gas, after thats what your family MD already told you… whatever the reason, there are those that will abuse it, screwing the rest of us (in the medicaid example, the rest of the state taxpayers)…

When you go to an all-you-can-eat buffet, how often do you leave the restarant grossly over-fed?

Same priniple… If its free, why not use as much as humanly possible so you can get “your fair share”?

Anyway, there is waste in a lot of stuff (gov’t especially)… But medicaid is an example of how much potential waste “free” healthcare would bring to the US if its not regulated wisely and offed to the entire population…

No, I don’t have the solution, either….

We have several Canadian posters on IDO. As with anything, I’m sure there are two sides to every story. I’m sure they have good stories and nightmares also. I’m sure each province could be run diffferently. You never know about those crazy canucks.

I have a sense of what has been said lately by our government and I think I understand the basics pretty clearly. It sounds to me like all they want to do is put in a public option to cut prices too make some competition for the insurance companies and insure those that need it and thats all. They told everybody if thier happy with thier present insurance then they can keep it, they don’t have to change. If they need insurance then they have the public option where they can buy it. Is the government setting the rules for the insurance companies that would be selling those plans with input from those companies and what they want if thier going to do business with the government. All the guidelines and rules are they completely written up by the present government or with input from those insurance companies too. To me it seems if the Democrates want any chance of being re-elected they have to come up with a stable plan and something thats realitively problem free. I just seen a pastor that was speaking on tv and hes supposed to meet with Barack Obama to come up with a plan so the rest of the religious leaders can inform the people in thier churches. He said all this talk about death squads and other hype is just that, so thats why hes meeting with him so it can help inform everyone whos got concerns. Im waiting to see what happens in the near future.

If you are not for govt insurance you should put your money where your mouthes are and swear right here and now that you won’t take medicare when you are able to. If you are christian you should confess if you are not for taking care of the poor. I would hate to be an insurance man who made his money from insurance profits that could have gone to save a life or detect a disease standing in front of St Peter. Our businesses have to compete globally which means businesses that have to shell out for health benefits are at a distinct disadvantage. I am sure I’ll be called names but nobody out there has a workable alternative. I’d like to be able to move from job to job but health benefits are always a hurdle. Nothing is free but we have to do something. I bet our self employed fishing guides could charge us less if they didn’t have to pay exorbitant premiums for their family protection. It has always been my dream to be a fishing guide but I have to keep a job to keep my wife and kids in coverage. I could take more chances if I didn’t have to worry about it and so could all of you. I doubt I can change anyones mind but that is what is wrong with this country. We have to listen to each other and compromise on things. That is the American way. Go vikings. If you should make it to the super bowl, I will root for you…. to lose again.

I’ve got a solution. It isn’t mine; but it will work:

1) Medical insurance is for catastrophic occurrences. You don’t have coverage for ear infections and sore throats. You pay for the little stuff yourself.
2) You pay for the little stuff with money fron your tax exempt medical savings plan. What you don’t spend at the end of the year you can roll over or take out (then it gets taxed).
3) Tort reform. Loser pays. End of frivilous lawsuits. It won’t happen because the ABA is one of the most powerful lobbies there is and most of there spending goes to the left side of the aisle. Also most of our politicians were once attorneys.
4) No 3rd party payer. You pay your medical bills or you buy the catastrophic coverage that pays your medical bills.
5) You decide what kind of coverage you want. That way I won’t have to pay extra for gynecological service coverage that I won’t ever need (I hope) and my wife won’t have to pay for prostate coverage.

And there are other things that could be added. The basic concept is to get the market back in to medical costs, get the government out, and watch the whole thing straighten out. The existing safety nets will still cover those “47 million without health coverage” It does now. So illegal aliens and people in their 20’s who don’t want to buy insurance will still get treated when they show up at the ER just like they do now.

dd

For your reading pleasure…or perhaps displeasure for some.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/20/health.care.bad.info/index.html

You had me until they quoted Pelosi and Daschle in the same article. Seriously, tell me a governement run program that self sufficient?

Little stuff… sore throat, ear infections…. 6 kids = 6 sore throats, 12 ear infections…. not so little… What you are proposing IS how it is now..

big G

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You had me until they quoted Pelosi and Daschle in the same article. Seriously, tell me a governement run program that self sufficient?

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They can’t all be Sarah Palin.

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You had me until they quoted Pelosi and Daschle in the same article. Seriously, tell me a governement run program that self sufficient?

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They can’t all be Sarah Palin.

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Thank god, but she isn’t hard to look at like Clinton.

Thank god, but she isn’t hard to look at like Clinton.

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Ain’t that the truth!

Kooty,
You’re a better man than me. I couldn’t make it past the ‘CNN’ in the URL of the link that was posted.

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Kooty,
You’re a better man than me. I couldn’t make it past the ‘CNN’ in the URL of the link that was posted.

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Ditto! Not that Fox is any more or less partisan…

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Kooty,
You’re a better man than me. I couldn’t make it past the ‘CNN’ in the URL of the link that was posted.

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Ditto! Not that Fox is any more or less partisan…

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Try this boys.It may be easier for you to comprehend.
http://www.pitara.com/news/

“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.”
Abraham Lincoln

The fact that Mr Lincoln spoke these words at least 144 years ago…he died in 1865,is proof that our society has been afflicted with the freeloaders,the indolent,the malcontents,etc,for at least that long and quite likely,since it’s inception.There is no legislation proposed for one way trips to the Mariana trench to rid ourselves of these people and as attractive as that may sound to some there never will be.Personaly,I don’t allow myself to be angry and upset over things that have not and will not change.Neither do I have issue with hard earned wealth.If you knew my family,there is no questioning this statement.I do however, take great issue with greed and wealth obtained by unscrupulous means.That,in one sentence,describes the insurance industry.They have been raping the American public for decades and health care reform is absolutley nessecary to curtail this.I say curtail because I don’t believe we can entirely put a stop to their greed either.They have too much wealth/power to accomplish that.Bottom line for me is there are children,families,elderly folks,veterans and more that desperately need health care reform.Unfortunately,there will be abuses of whatever reforms our elected officials come up with and we won’t all be entirely happy with whatever they do but,as a US Navy Vet myself,I say lets stop the leaning far left or right,find some middle ground and get ‘er done.

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Little stuff… sore throat, ear infections…. 6 kids = 6 sore throats, 12 ear infections…. not so little… What you are proposing IS how it is now..

big G

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What I propose is that YOU cover you 18 ear infections and sore throats. Instead of running to urgent care 18 times and making the $20 co-pay each time you foot the whole bill out of your tax-deferred medical savings account.

The way it is now people have no incentive to be frugal. Get those hangnails and fevers of 99.9 degrees checked out! Go ahead clog up waiting rooms with minor stuff that might not need to be immdiately checked out and will go away on their own. Please continue the over prescribing of antibiotics so we can have nastier and more virulent superbugs. Insurance is footing most of the bill so what the hey!

What I am proposing is not new. It is the way the system worked before. When you go to the doctor for minor things you pay. Insurance is for major stuff. Stuff that will wipe you out. Does your car insurance pay for oil changes or new tires?

And if you have 1 kid or 16 they are still your responsibility. So have as many as you can afford.

dd

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I do however, take great issue with greed and wealth obtained by unscrupulous means.That,in one sentence,describes the insurance industry.They have been raping the American public for decades and health care reform is absolutley nessecary to curtail this.

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If you read my post (And I am not taking you personally to task here…) I asked the question “Why not tax insurance companies different rates for coverage decisions that they make?” It is discrimination in essence. Correct? If they take a company with 500 American employees and give them one rate based on the size of their group…and a company of 10 American employees is offered the same coverage at grossly inflated premiums because their “Pool” is smaller? I have an issue with that. REFORM THAT!!!!!

In doing so, you are allowing the small company to hire a few more people, spurring the economy and recovery. Currently the Government plan is to charge the small business owner 8% of their payroll as a tax if they drop health care coverage for their employees and push them towards the public option. They are imposing taxes on the WRONG PEOPLE!!!

Insurance companies can still charge the smaller company more in rates, but I would impose a hefty “Discrimination Tax” on the Insurance Companies. And then I would allow the smaller companies to use their inflated insurance rates as a tax deduction. How long would the insurance companies continue to do this?

Wouldn’t the insurance companies benefit by newly hired employees being covered as well? More customers, right?

Torte Reform…It MUST happen. Loser pays…end of stupid law suits.

The Socialistic Government run approach just isn’t going to work because they are not spending their own money. Reform Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security first and lets have this conversation about a Government run Healthcare system.

The uninsured are treated anyway!!! People don’t realize that! If the Government wants to expand social programs to cover the disenfranchised, that is a whole other conversation that should be had.(See Medicare and Medicaid.) But to overhaul a Healthcare system that 85% of Americans are happy with is insane.