I didn’t know that Gary and im glad I do now. Vets hospitals and the way I’ve heard thier lacking in the past have always been one of my main concerns. I don’t know if the few things I heard were hype or were half truths but it raised my eyebrow. Im glad to hear atleast some vets hospitals are at the top of the list. 
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/potter.health.insurance/index.html
DEEEEP pockets on these guys. 
I agree, both sides have deep pockets and the “press” war will highly influence the public opinion.
However, my base objection to this is government run. Our government is the most wasteful spender in the nation.
Because it is not “Their” money. 
Force them to live within their means like we do, and it would be a different story.
I really wish they had a stake in it. Force them to use the health care plan that they are pushing on the public. I see this really becoming an issue or roadblock in getting this proposal passed.
They seem to treat “Money” as just a number or tool…it has no “Monitary Value” to them I believe. It amazes me how they spend like they do and are not held accountable. 
And if we question what is going on, we are called “Un-American.” 
Im with both you guys. I heard of a painter a few years back that bid a job down at the univeristy of Iowa that was funded by a government grant to do the work. He submitted his bid and a person that was letting the bids out called him to come to a meeting. He went there and when he got into the office and talked to the guy and he said were giving you the bid but heres what the government is going to do,,,were going to double this bid for you because your being payed by a government grant. I think the reason why they did this is because the more they spend the more taxes come back to the government. I understnad this way of thinking but I think its counter productive when it comes to keeping prices down. I heard he bid the job to make decent money already because he already knew it was government funded, so why double the bid. I do know one of the reasons they do this is because early on in figureing the governemnts budgit and what they think is nesessary and want to spend when drawing up that amount, if they don’t spend that total amount that year they don’t get as much to spend next year. I understand that thought but it dosen’t save money and causes inflation. Those government branches also have to learn not to throw money into the wind just because they will get less next year and have to raise taxes to get it, tightening of the belt is whats needed.
“However, my base objection to this is government run. Our government is the most wasteful spender in the nation.”
Perhaps but,followed quite closely by the insurance companies I’d say.
I hear a lot of rhetoric from both sides pro and con to this proposal. But I hear little in the way of solutions. The way I see this happening in my Eutopia is to put the word out to the major Insurers of the Country and tell them to come up with a comprehensive plan to cover the 15% of uninsured Americans. Set them down in a room, come up with a plan and present it to a truly bipartisan panel of Senators and Representatives. Make this a give and take relationship. Everyone has to win something. What is wrong with the major insurers putting a percentage of sales profits into a fund to help pay for the 15% of uninsured? They then have a stake to control costs. Do not mess with the system as it is now. Too many people will lose jobs, the costs will be astronomical per the CBO. Sit them down, fix what is broken. No Socialistic approach. Period. It has not worked anywhere it has been instituted. Bring them in and make them part of the solution as opposed to the cause. I do believe the Government has their attention right now.
“It has not worked anywhere it has been instituted”
Not entirely true Tuck.A lot of Brit’s and Canucks were quite P.O’d that we here in the USA were bad mouthing their health coverage.Not entirely happy with it????Things they’d like to see changed??? Yes and yes again but,a complete failure is another one of those things the insurance industry would like us all to believe. 
Those are exactly my thoughts too Chris. Insuring those that make marginal money and getting that amount from them is more money to work with. I think they know they can and its possible but its become to political. Break down a $300 payment a month for a year, thats $3,600 from a million people and see how much money they will have to work with per person with what happens to the average person during that year. Thats a whole lot of money thier not getting now. An important thing to remember is most of those people won’t be getting sick or have major costly issues. Most will be minor scrapes and bruises and regular preventative visits.
Insurance companies are greedy as heck too. I agree, there is a racket going on. Maybe the threat of government involvement will force the industry to rethink how it works. I’m still very fearful that money from these industries(lobbyist) will influence what should be a bipartisan reform. It should be for the better of every American citizen who isn’t to lazy to better himself/herself.
I would like to see something that is affordable for small business owners, children and disabled Americans. NOT for illegal immigrants, not for the habitual welfare cases. Sure there are people who need welfare, I’m all for helping my fellow Americans who are down on their luck. Just like I think these folks need health care. However, we can not let the health care go the way welfare, medicaid, medicare and social security have.
Just got this info, not sure how much is 100% verifiable:
“So, the next logical question to ask is: How does the President and this Congress plan on funding this massive government overhaul? Well, sadly, the America’s small businesses will bear that burden. A good portion of the House Democrats’ bill is paid for by imposing a new surtax on the “wealthy,” which, in typical D.C. fashion, doesn’t differentiate between couples with means and small family businesses. Those with more than $280,000 in income ($350,000 for a couple) will pay a 2% surtax. The surtax hits 5.4% for individuals with $800,000 or more in income ($1,000,000 for a couple). This new tax will push the top tax rate in 39 of the 50 states to more than 50%. In Minnesota, the top small business and individual tax rate will be 54.36% if this bill becomes law.
Believe it or not, the news for small businesses actually gets worse. The House Democrat bill also includes a new 8% payroll tax on employers who fail to provide “acceptable” health insurance to their employees. And while an agreement appears to have been reached limiting this penalty to only those businesses with $500,000 in payroll (full phase-in at $750,000), it appears that this could still impact the employers of 67% of Minnesota’s small business employees.”
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“It has not worked anywhere it has been instituted”
Not entirely true Tuck.A lot of Brit’s and Canucks were quite P.O’d that we here in the USA were bad mouthing their health coverage.Not entirely happy with it????Things they’d like to see changed??? Yes and yes again but,a complete failure is another one of those things the insurance industry would like us all to believe.
Are you advocating taking arguably the best Health Care in the world to a British or Canadian type of system? Ask yourself one question…why are so many Specialists, doctors and physicians from all around the world beating on the doors of the Mayo or Cleveland or U of M clinics? We will lose the motivation for these experts in specialized medicine forever! You are not just socializing medicine like Britain and Canada, you are extinguishing the motivation for these doctors to specialize and be compensated based on their level of expertise. Why should our or any government be able to do that? Never before in American history has that been done. Until the CEO of GM was asked to step down by an American president.
Again, please re-read my post above. I offer that as only a possible solution. I implore you to site examples of the “Great” health care systems of other Countries and compare them to ours. And, show me how they are going to accomplish that here without taxing you/me/our kids to the brink? In a time when we are facing the worst recession/depression since the Dust Bowl years. Nobody is going to be able to shove this down the throat of the opposition or the American public. Many of whom (85%) are very happy with their level of health care. Yes, work needs to be done to equal the playing field for the small biz owners. Absolutely! They need to be able to share in the same “Pool of Numbers” that the bigger companies do to drive costs and premiums down. There are mechanisms that can be utilized to accomplish that. But breaking the backs of yours and my children and grandchildren to the tune of 2 trillion dollars is not the right solution in this small brain of mine.
Again, not saying you are wrong…but if you do become seriously ill God forbid…will you be heading North over the border? 
I have a simple solution, maybe it won’t work and maybe it will. For those small business that can’t or wont pay for that insurance why not take a nominal sum from each of thier employees paychecks and buy in a group plan. I know it sounds simpiler then it may be but where does it matter where the moneys coming from if each person can get a cheaper plan anyway. There was a small business owner from Nebraska just the other day on TV and he was asked his opinion during this 10 minute interview. He said he was all for the option to buy into an organised plan because he couldn’t afford it out of his own pocket at present rates. He said a lower payment option would make it more possible for eigther him to pay or take that paymnet out of each employees paycheck, maybe they could each pay a %age like some companies already do. I know some small companies still couldn’t afford to pay anything so why not take a payment out of each employees paychecks and buy into a group plan that has thousands of other members and bargining power.
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Its my humble opinion the way of being lazy has become the way of life for the majority. …too many people are not willing to work their way life. They want a Gov’t program for the working class to carry them.
RIGHT ON.
A little off topic, but….
Many gov’t programs (such as welfare/medicaid/etc.) are (theoretically) there to help you get back onto your feet or help though rough patches… They are NOT meant to be your only/lifelong source of income if you are an otherwise able-bodied person. I’m happy to pay a portion of my paycheck to help out people down on thier luck. I’m NOT happy to help out the abusers who bring children into this world just so they can get a larger welfare check each month to pay form thier escalade payment and not be a productive member of society… (The lazy and selfish factor seems to be an ever increasing part of society…) What happened to “Ask not what you country can do for you??”
I’m also not sure where we came up with the idea that health care is a right. Seeing a MD is not much different than hiring a contractor to build your house. Both are providing a service for a fee. Pay to play. I know there are many who feel otherwise, so please don’t bite my head off… Its only my opinion… I do understand reasons why some people might see it otherwise… (see also the below link)
Some interesting points on The Angry Pharmacist and Socialized Medicine Post that are somewhat related to this topic… (might have to search for some of the welfare/medicaid rants… Take with a little grain of salt, the posts are meant to be funny… albeit, mostly right on in a broad sense…. caution, also, contains much profanity)
Almost 33 years at the same job so, no I won’t be heading north….well,maybe to fish but,the exagerated claims you are making about what is going to happen tell me that the insurance companies have gotten in your ear a bit.
At the LARGE corporation I work for,our insurance coverage options have gone from 3 down to 1 in the last several years,premiums have gone up across the board and I am paying more money for less comprehensive coverage.I had better health insurance 20 years ago.
I promised a loyal IDO follower that my last post was my last on this subject..
But before I go and help solve some other crisis, just be aware that I have sent all of your email addresses to the White House so you can be watched for putting out “Fishy information on Health Care!” 
I agree, maybe what was meant buy being a right was when looking at all the possibilities a person may come up with an idea that would work for everybody. Everybodys trying to come up with that idea and solution now. I do feel its possible so maybe this is the right that was talked about. The way things are run now its just not possible for alot of reasons, if things can be worked out then it may become a right for everyone.
I too am for not completely changeing the present healthcare system, just fixing whats wrong with it. Theres no need to do it because most of it works and just has to be tuned up again so it will run right, run longer and more effecient.
Think back 20 years, how many cancer cases were there then? How many other diseases do we have a strangle hold on now vs then? Yes, healthcare is much more expensive now. However, we also have the ability to cure A LOT more diseases now days.
My point is, 20 years ago, you may have perceived as better health care, but did it cover all the diseases we can treat today? Look how many people battle cancer and win now days. We have survival rates at some amazing numbers in the fight against cancer alone. What about diabetes or the other thousands of crazy stuff out there? I think it’s AWESOME where we are today and will be in the future if the government doesn’t decide what is good for you or I. I watched my cousin lose to cancer after a 2 year battle, my ex-wife after a year long battle and I’m watching two friends fight it today, now going on a year each. Im sure the bills were/are astronomical in all cases. But worth every penny in my opinion. Ask my cousin’s daughter what it would be worth to have her mom at her wedding. Well, those costs are leveraged back on us. Let’s not forget all the lawsuits that have been leveraged against doctors and drug companies.
Do we need improvements, darn right!!! But it’s not just insurance companies at fault here. We need the finger pointing and the fear of being sued for breathing wrong to go away. We need all the major players to come together. It seems a rather simple solution with a complex road to a means that could benefit us all.
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Let’s not forget all the lawsuits that have been leveraged against doctors and drug companies.
Huge point right there… Think about all of the $$ wasted on frivoulous lawsuits. Granted, some lawsuits might have good reason… But many aren’t, and cause premiums, fees, etc… to skyrocket… Not just to pay for lawsuits that have happened in the past, but those that potentially happen in the future. There are risks and side effects in health care – thats all part of the game. Its between you and your provider to understand those risks and weigh them vs the benefits…
Don’t sue the parachute company because you failed to read the manual on how to pull the cord…..
Much of what you’ve said is true…some is mere speculation.I am not one to run with the chicken littles who say the sky is falling because the insurance companies said so.Executive and CEO pay for some of these insurance people has risen to over 400 times what their average employee makes in the last 20 some years too.That’s just greed IMO. and these are some of the major players that you say need to come together.They don’t have one ounce of my trust to do the right thing.
I’m glad to have that faith in your elected officials to do it for you.
I will say I know very VERY little about the Health Care bill, but similar to what others have said….
When is the last Government Program that came in under budget and streamlined? 
I hate to reduce it to such a small minded outlook, but first prove me wrong on a smaller scale then lets take on a big project.
If we do not learn from history we are bound to repeat it.
After all of this banter let’s remember one thing. Our dearly elected officials will not abandon their current system of care. Still think this proposal seems ok?
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Or even worse, try going to a VA Hospital as your primary health care provider.
Talk about an eye opening experience of what govt run health care looks like.
I guess I have to object to this one. The VA in Minneapolis is considered the best hospital in the Metro. It is also a “model” hospital that all other VAs are to achieve to when it comes to standards.
It also isn’t free for Veterans. You still have to pay. During employment transitions, I choose to use the VA at a last minute ER run instead of using my huge deductable that I had with my COBRA.
To say the least, I was catereed too and received INCREDIBLE care!!!! I was shocked and even told some of the doctors there that! I was treated #1 there and it was very heart warming to see all the Vets getting great care.
The quality of care and the quality of medical treatment received really put me at a “postive” loss of words.I’ll give your Minneapolis VA a HUGE:
Hey Gary
First I must say that I’m genuinely happy you received top notch care when you needed it.
Unfortunately I saw a close family friend go through the exact opposite for two years at the Mpls VA Hospital.
Go for an appointment (not a last minute one, one that was scheduled 2 weeks or a month in advance), wait half a day in the lobby, get told to come back tomorrow or the next day. Happened more than once.
Two months into the process, I was pretty sure he had Parkinsons; the Doctors couldn’t/wouldn’t say. After a year guess what; yup the Doctors diagnosed Parkinsons.
Now what really scares me is Gary got great care and he’s what; around 40? in fairly good health?
But a WWII Vet in his 80’s with Parkinsons and only two years left to live got pushed to the back of the line.
A portend of the way Gov’t Run Health Care works?
I am a Vet, but forntunately, haven’t had to use any hospital lately. I do get ALOT of customers, mostly elderly gentlemen, that drop their vehicles off for an oil change and take the shuttle to the St Cloud Vets hospital. They call us when they are done and we promptly pick them up. can honestly say, i don’t ever remember a vet telling me they waited all day or were turned away. In fact, I sometimes shuttle when we get busy and when they find out I am a vet, they tell me how great the St Cloud Vets hospital is and how lucky we are to have it in the area. It’s nice to hear… I may need it someday
big G
Best hospial in the metro where did you pick that info up from? Also I know Canada is diffrent from the U.S. in many ways, but their gov. health care is crap. I agree the health care in this country is outragesly over priced. But I also dont think that everyone should have it. Its a privilage not a right, you dont want to work to have it then you shouldnt get it. Obviously there are exceptions to everything such as people deemed unable to work, handicap etc. But they need to have sometype of monitoring on who is getting it and for how long. My sister is a delivery nurse and she says that “somolians” or what ever race comeover here weeks before they are due and then come to our hospitals demanding a translator, and give birth to a useless American citizen that will attack us 20 years down the road. This is one of the major reasons that health care has come to what it is. The working citizens paying for people that shouldnt be here and people that are a complete burden on working society. My father-inlaw is a police officer same crap going on over there you can put someone in jail and the justice system lets them out with a slap on the wrist because they are so backed up with worthless people and immigrants.(that suddnly dont speak english when dealing with them)-what do you know another expensive translator. I think that culture does alot for society I also think that legal immigrants do much for America but the whole process of them getting to live tax free for a time and get money to start businesses is crap, so I was born here a white male and I get the shaft. I think that anyone that wants to come to this country should have to proof their worth to this county for some time before ever getting citizenship. Sorry to go off on a tangent here but somethings got to change, Im worried were so screwed now theres no turning back. 
Almost 55 years on this earth has taught me to trust myself and those I know well enough to judge their character beyond reproach.Politicians and corporate exec’s are NOT on that short list.
I don’t think that lobbyists and special interest groups,should be allowed to influence any decision involving taxpayer money….period.And if you don’t think they are heavily involved in the health care issue,please share whatever it is you are smoking.
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Almost 55 years on this earth has taught me to trust myself and those I know well enough to judge their character beyond reproach.Politicians and corporate exec’s are NOT on that short list.
Wise Words indeed.
For this purpose, I assume you’d lump bereaucrats in with politicians? (I know I would)
Absolutely the funniest joke ever……ON US !!!
Read it slowly.
Let it sink in.
Quietly we go like sheep to slaughter.
Does anybody out there have any memory of the reason given for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY ….. During the Carter Administration?
Anybody?
Anything?
No?
Didn’t think so!
Bottom line … We’ve spent several hundred billion dollars in support of an agency …the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember.
Ready???????
It was very simple ..
And at the time everybody thought it very appropriate. ..
The ‘Department of Energy’ was instituted on
8-04-1977
TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE
ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh?????
AND NOW IT’S 2009, 32 YEARS LATER … AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS
NECESSARY DEPARTMENT
IS AT
$24.2 BILLION A YEAR
IT HAS
16,000
FEDERAL EMPLOYEES
AND APPROXIMATELY
100,000
CONTRACT EMPLOYEES
AND LOOK AT THE JOB IT HAS DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU
SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY
‘WHAT WAS I THINKING?’
Ah, yes, good old bureaucracy. ..
And NOW _ we are going to turn the Banking System, Health Care & the Auto Industry over to government?
May God Help Us !!!
Food for thought… for every lobbyist and special interest group…. there are taxpayers footing the bill for them to fight for it…. 
big G
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