History before our eyes?, End of Days? or Both?

WOW,
I am not trying to scream that the sky is falling, but are we truly at the end of days or is this now the direction of all politics?
I do know that we are watching history happen, not all of it seems to be before our eyes. It seems that much of it is being slipped by us when we are asleep!
I will first say I know VERY little about the health care bill (tell me who does?), BUT throw it on top of all the other spending and it seems to me regardless of your political view these are dollars that go WAAYYY past our ability to pay?
On top of this when people speak out they are now being labeled as us as whack jobs, extremists from never never land?
Isn’t speaking out what makes us American?
Our ability to question what is happening?
Yes, many of us may not be well versed in public speaking and a bit rough around the edges for TV, but our anxiety is up and therefore our anger is up.
It is said that decisions are made by those who show up. Now that we are showing up it seems that we are not invited?
My thought is that it is not only American to question, but is our responsibility!

Reid calls us evil mongers, Pelosi calls us un-american. All I can say is I will support the health care bill when Pelosi and Reid and everyone else in Congress are included in the final bill, not excluded to there own special health care. Then I will believe they are truly looking out for our best interest and not acting stupidly.

You are right bigpike. I Emailed my Senators and my US Representative asking all 3 if they would be covered under this bill. Sen. Harkin and Rep. Boswell sent back long Email letters full of big words telling me what the US people needed. No answer to my question. Sen. Grassley never answered at all.

i think the health care bill is a way to take the spotlight off of the cap and trade bill. imo

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You are right bigpike. I Emailed my Senators and my US Representative asking all 3 if they would be covered under this bill. Sen. Harkin and Rep. Boswell sent back long Email letters full of big words telling me what the US people needed. No answer to my question. Sen. Grassley never answered at all.

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I did the same for those reps in my area. Grassley is on our side, Harkin is a quack job, who voted for him anyways?

Carefull we might get put on the White House myth spreading list

Heres where I stand and have heard. I still haven’t made up my mind yet because im still listening and want to hear all the P’s and Q’s and heres what I see. The public option is going to be a group buying option only. By group it means the government will have bargining power when they talk to insurance companies and pharmacutical companies like the AARP and various other senior organizations. The government, or the majority of taxpayers isn’t going to have to foot any of the bill.

What the governemnt is proposing is just like title 19 insurance here in Iowa. Title 19 is issued to handicapped and needy individuals through the John Deere Health insurance company here in Iowa. Anyone thats down on thier luck or needs an emergeny operation and dosen’t have insurance to pay for the operation can get help through this title 19 insurance company thats (run by the state of Iowa) a state government.

Heres some of the benifits that an option created by the government will do to the health care industry now. Health insurance is so expensive that over half of the Americans in the United States can’t afford it. So when they have to have medical help and its even fairly serious often times it runs them into bankruptcy because of hospital and doctors rates. Of the many Americans that do have health insurance and that are paying for it out of thier pocket, with the governent option giving the health insurance companies some competition it will drive down rates for those people, who wouldn’t want that. If you get insurance through your job those rates are atleast likely to stableize and that should make the company your working for happy. Insurance rates have tripled in the last 10 years.

The government im sure has a list of insurance companies that are already on board and will insure everyone, like John Deere does here in Iowa for the people who need it through that group plan. If it wasen’t profitable for Deere to do it here they wouldn’t. It is subsidized by the taxpayers here in Iowa for those who need it and may need it someday. When it comes to how it will be financed government wide for those who opt. on it will be paid for by those that have enough money to pay for thier policy out of thier pocket to whatever companies the government does business with. It will be cheaper and more affordable for everyone and more people who need insurance will be insured and im sure the insurance companies will like that. The insurance companies that the government will be doing business with will be making more, even if its $100 a month from some people, because more people will be sending thier money to the insurance companies the governments doing business with and theres millions that don’t now because the rates are unaffordable and they can’t.

What are the positive things that are going to happen if this is passed. The hospitals will never turn down anyone because they will be insured. The hospitals will be able to charge lower rates to the insurance companies and thier policy holders who are now almost footing the complete bill to keep the hospitals running, think about that, at present all the insurance companies are footing the bill for everyone that dosen’t have a policy. Thats why cotton balls are $100 a piece, they have to charge those rates so the hospital can pay its bills and the insurance companies and thier clients or policy holders are now footing the bill.

Heres what im not sure about is the rate the wealthy pay now and what they will pay if the bill is passed. I’ve heard they pay more and I’ve heard they pay less because of deductions so im not sure here. There are going to be many who can’t even afford $100 a month so thats why the president, many in congress and the senate want to raise the tax rate (and heres another thing im not sure about) so that the very wealthy pay the same amount as the middle class. The middle class is not going to have to foot anything, the working poor and the poor aren’t going to have to eigther. The people who opt. on to the Governemnts health care plan will be buying a policy through insurance companies that the governemnt will be doing business with and that will not be paid for by any taxpayer.

The streamlineing of the way things are being done now to cut insurance industry waist will save Americans 150 billion a year thats now being wasted by incompetantcy in a system that isn’t being run right and everybody involved has thier hands on as much money as they can get and anyway they can get it. Most of that if not all will stop or be reduced greatly.

Personally when the rates do drop I can see alot more people being insured and that means more money for the insurance companies. Small business that are barely able to or can’t will now be able to offer cheaper insurance to thier employees and a better insurance policy. This is basically what I’ve heard and the way I understand it. Did you see where that insurance executive makes $8000 a day telling people that already have a policy that thier policy dosen’t cover what they need, that kind of crap has to stop, those people have a policy so they should be covered. With this new bill everyone won’t have to worry about the small print at the bottom and back of the page, everything will be covered and in writing. If the state government here in Iowa can do it at a 6% tax rate they can do it nationwide.

i hope that is how it goes

here is one question for you. name one goverment program that is run efficiently and doesn’t cost 3x plus what was initially thought? everything the goverment touches doesn’t turn to gold.

Can you say…..Amtrack…..Social Security…..Medicare…
and last but not least…… US POSTAL SERVICE!!!!

Or even worse, try going to a VA Hospital as your primary health care provider.
Talk about an eye opening experience of what govt run health care looks like.

By the way, I’ll maybe need to send the info off some of you guys’ profiles to [email protected]

Heres something else to think about. My daughter works at a restaurant here in town thats called Red Robin. They offered her complete insurance for her and her at that time unborn daughter. The price of this insurance is just $50 a week or $200 a month. It comes directly out of her paychecks and goes to the insurance company that insures all the Red Robin employees. They can do this at this price because its a national chain and they have bargining power because of the many employees that work there. Red Robin buys insurance for all thier employees through group bargining power and gets a fair group rate that even waitresses can afford.

There are so many involved in making thier money in the health care system and most of those people have figured out what and how they can make what they do. I heard a guy talking quite a few years ago and he was getting an unreal amount for a wheelchair and about the same amount for an orthopedic bed that had to be brought into the home because the patient needed it after surgery. The people in the medical industry have figured out how too charge these rates and the present systems has just paid the bill, thats why its gotten so inflationary. Everybody on board is doing this. This is the kind of waist that a new system will be eliminateing.

My old friend Goerge just got out of the hospital and nurseing home because he contacted E-Coli because of a bad bladder infection, it darned near killed him. Befor he went in and now after hes gotten out he had many tests for previous illnesses and now that hes out for tests now. Some of these tests are repeat tests just because hes seeing a diffrent doctor to treat something diffrent. Why can’t these tests be transfered from one doctor to another when they change doctors, these are the same tests and an additional expense to the medicare system. The present government is proposing an online information system that will keep track of everybodys past and present conditon and the tests they have had. This will greatly reduce the price of having to take unneeded tests again. The present system has done business so long this way they think its the only way to do business and keep track of things that its become habit. If things don’t change in another 10 to 15 years we can expect to see insurance premiums triple again. When this happens its going to force many out of a policy who are marginally paying for a limited policy now and many more will go bankrupt. The insurance and medical industry has to lower thier prices and make some changes or they may be forced out of business and only the people who have enough money then will be able to afford a policy at an extreem rate. Its called priceing themselves right out of business because thats whats happening now.

Group buying power isn’t socialism and maybe thats what is needed in our Medicare and Medicaid system now. Both of these systems are being paid into by people who are still in the workforce and that payment comes out of thier paychecks and goes to these systems. If everybody paid in a nominal amount out of the checks they recieve wheather its a retirement check or a weekly paycheck they would all be insured by buying into a public policy that was offered by the insurance companies. The present system needs an overhaul badly.

When I think of how this country began, and all the provisions in place to “protect” us from gov’t, I do wonder what our future really holds. We are such a young country when compared to the rest of the world. We came to be a super power both in military and financially so fast. Right or wrong, the age of technology has made every every aspect of our life is impacted by global events. I’m not a history major and its probably the one subject in school I didn’t have the greatest appreciation for. But we all know history repeats its self and that isd what really scares me for the future of our way of life, our children, and our country.

Its my humble opinion the way of being lazy has become the way of life for the majority. Cities have become too big with inner-city poverty and drugs, too many peaple are not willing to work their way life. They want a Gov’t program for the working class to carry them. I’m in my forties, my Dad is in his mid 70’s, and my hero in life is 98 and failing quickly. I try hard to live by the advise I have been given by by them. Its simple, but not always the easiest to follow. Pay cash, no credit cards, be practicle in your needs – don’t follow your wants, and if you do anything in life and your not sure if its the right thing to do, ask yourself – “Will I need to worry about this later?”
I have a bit of an extremist view on our future. We need to hit the reset button and get back to basics. People must come to understand the Gov’t isn’t there to do everything for you. You must be self suficient in life, you must care for your family, and if YOU want a “program” YOU must pay for it. Harder times are coming as I am confident history will repeat and our Government will go through major changes. If we continue to evolve at the pace we are on, we will have two classes, the poverty stricken, and the very wealthy. No middle class. The rich will revolt in paying for the poor, and we will have a civil uprising like we have never encountered. Though, I would like to be wrong about that

I basically agree RKD-Jim but the U.S. Post Office has been privately managed for some years now. Just for your information. JJ

If your so right about this Mossydan. Please explain some of these pages in the bill.

One more thing if end of life wasn`t part of the bill, then why was it just removed this past week.

House bill, HR 3200, as it sits in the House:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

Here are some HC Horrors:

PG 22 – Mandates the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure.

PG 30, Sec 123 – A new Govt committee decides what treatments/benefits you get.

PG 29 – lines 4-16 – Your HC is rationed.

PG 42 – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. you have no choice.

PG 50, Section 152 – HC will be provided to ALL US residents, including non-citizens, legal or illegal.

PG 58 – Govt will have real-time access to individual finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued.

PG 59, Lines 21-24 – Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

PG 65, Sec 164 – A payoff for trade unions & community organizations (e.g. -ACORN) retirees and their families – their own subsidized HC plan.

PG 72, Lines 8-14 – Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84, Sec 203 – Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

PG 85, Line 7 – Specs for of benefit levels for plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare.

PG 91, Lines 4-7 – Govt mandates linguistic services; i.e., – translation for illegal aliens.

PG 95, Lines 8-18 – The Govt will use groups; e.g., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

PG 85, Line 7 – Specs of benefit levels for plans. AARP members – you HC WILL be rationed.

PG 102, Lines 12-18 – Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

PG 124, Lines 24 – No company can sue Govt on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt monopoly.

PG 127, Lines 1-16 – Govt will decree doctor income.

PG 145, Line 15-17 An employer MUST enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

PG 126, Lines 22-25 – Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

PG 149, Lines 16-24 – ANY Employer w/payroll $400k & above who does not provide pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

PG 150, Lines 9-13 – Employer w/payroll between $251k & $400k who doesn’t provide pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

PG 167, Lines 18-23 – ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Govt rules will be taxed 2.5% of income.

PG 170, Lines 1-3 – Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay for their HC while they are here.)

PG 195 – Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans’ financial & personal records.

PG 203, Line 14-15 – “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.

PG 239, Line 14-24 – Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

PG 241, Line 6-8 – All doctors no matter what specialty, skills or training will be paid the same.

PG 253, Line 10-18 – Govt sets value of doctors’ time, professional judgement, etc. Literally government placing a value on human skills and human time.

PG 265, Sec 1131 – Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

PG 268, Sec 1141 – Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145 – Treatment of Certain cancer Hospitals – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing.

Page 280, Sec 1151 – The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

PG 298, Lines 9-11 – Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission will be penalized by Govt .

PG 317, Lines 13-20 – Prohibition/limits of doctors’ ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors what/how much they can own.

PG 317-318, Lines 21-25, 1-3 – Govt mandates hospitals cannot expand

PG 321 2-13 – Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception with community input required. Another job for ACORN, PETA, or any envirowacko’s.

PG 335, L 16-25 PG 336-339 – Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the Govt way. Rationing.

PG 341, Lines 3-9 – Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare, HMO’s, private fee for service plans and force people into Govt plan.

PG 354, Sec 1177 – Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people. All you folks with Downes, cerebral palsy, polio and amputees report to the crematorium, stat.

PG 379, Sec 1191 – Govt creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425, Lines 4-12 – Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Another bureaucaracy of ‘helping professionals’ to take your parents from you.

PG 425, Lines 17-19 – Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory participation.

PG 425, Lines 22-25, 426, Lines 1-3 – Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you to death

PG 427, Lines 15-24 – Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

PG 429, Lines 1-9 – An “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429, Lines 10-12 – “advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. An ORDER from Government about ending your loved one’s life.

PG 429, Lines 13-25 – The Govt will specify which doctors can write an end of life order.

I agree with some of the stipulations and don’t with others. Will some of these ideas actually take place in the bill, I can see a half dozen that shouldn’t or won’t. The places it talks about end of life health care isn’t a no end road for the elderly, its been introduced to the persons in question so they have the say so on how thier loved ones life may end, thier not just going to let someone die because they can’t afford it, its in the hospitals best interist to keep them alive on life support when it comes to money. What these lines say is the family has the right to do whats necessary and what the person thats in his last days has already wished. This has to do with a living will, do some people still have to lay there on life support when they said in thier will they wanted to go when it was time. Hospitals make alot of money when theres question on someones will when theres doubt, by keeping them physically alive, they make alot of money doing this. These stipulations would leave it up to the persons wishes, the families and the advice of the physican. Thats why these stipulations are in this bill and thats all these amount too, no ones going to be put to death or have the plug pulled on them in thier last days because it costs too much. Doing something like that is called manslaughter and theres alot of lawyers out there just waiting for a hospital lawsuit and they’d win.

The stipulations about looking into someones books and how they are paying and have paid, some I don’t agree with and some I do. The ones I do agree with are to keep fraud out of the system, the ones I don’t agree with are the ones that are mandatory, there has to be reasonable cause anywhere to do an investigation on anyone or any business. Those rules are in there so if the person or persons are complaining about thier health insurance that the company has written up for them and the governemnt has any reasonable doubt they can open the books of that company to investigate the complaint, Id say there will be very few companies that will want to get by on the sly but there will probably be some. People will have to raise the red flag first befor they suspect, the government hasen’t got the time to drop in and just open someones books. At first there will be alot of complaints and they will be inspected by our government, some will be legit and some won’t.

When it comes to the guidelines on how a doctor treats a person those are in there because some doctors like soaking the system now and make every penny they can by haveing a person come back. How many can say theres alot of shady doctors out there, I can. Some doctors will treat patients even if they don’t need it, it buys them an extra porsche every year or two doing it this way and everyone thats insured is paying for that porsche. Some doctors are vultures flying over a fresh kill and thats why the governemnt wants say so in those cases.

What other choices do we have but to let our government do this, who else is going to do it, put some competition back into the system to bring prices back down and to get insurance for the people who don’t have it now. Is bankruptcy and extreem debt the answer. Working a second job to make ends meet because inflation is making prices so high most can’t afford insurance, theres other people who need that job and need to work too and people need to be with thier children seeing they are being raised right. Is it fair to make the people who are insured now foot the whole bill for everyone who needs care or an operation because thats whats happening now.

Something has to be done to bring insurance back to reality so people can insure themselves and thier families. Most people work to make a living, some don’t but thier in the minority and its always been this way and always will. Do I agree with illegals getting insurance, heck no. Do I agree with anyone whos come in legalily, yes. States are being driven into near bankruptcy because they are footing the bill for those illegals. A national plan or not, no illegal should be covered wheather thier kids were born here or not, thier illegals and thats another reason why those people are coming here. I see some of these ideas are just that and haven’t been put into effect yet and won’t. There will be new ideas looked at and used and someothers thrown out the window because thier not needed and don’t work. This is a major step in healthcare but somethings got to be done.

I look at it this way. If my daughter gets her insurance for herself and her daughter for $200 a month and thats dental and health and for a co-pay of $20 and it covers everything then it can be done for everyone. If a family of 4 pays $250 to $300 a month thats $3,600 a year. If One million young families, youngs the key word here because they get sick less, are insured and paying that $3,600 a year then thats 3,600,000,000, thats three billion, six hundered million a year, think one million young families can be insured for that amount, I do. Myself I don’t know why the major insurance companies can’t get onboard, you’d think they would want that money. Im sure the present government has a list of companies that have already agreed to do business with them for a reasonable rate. I know what stocks Id be buying if this healthcare bill passes.

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When it comes to the guidelines on how a doctor treats a person those are in there because some doctors like soaking the system now and make every penny they can by haveing a person come back. How many can say theres alot of shady doctors out there, I can. Some doctors will treat patients even if they don’t need it, it buys them an extra porsche every year or two doing it this way and everyone thats insured is paying for that porsche. Some doctors are vultures flying over a fresh kill and thats why the governemnt wants say so in those cases.

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Mossy…While I respect your right to your opinion….
All I can say is WAIT A MINUTE HERE!
You are generalizing WAY too much…..My daughter is a Doctor so I have had the pleasure meet many of her colleagues and there is not ONE I would categorize as such,Nor would I classify any of the Doctor I have ever seen this way!
I would suggest that the majority of useless tests etc.are due to the fear of lawsuits and such…..
And if you really think they make too much money remember this..
My daughter worked her butt off for 11 years to get where she is today…..many,many,many 16+ hour days,with NO pay…$170,000 debt….and a dedication to really help her patients…
Some?…I think it’s very few…
Sometime it seems like people have too much envy of successful people without understanding how hard they actually WORK for it…..

AS far as our current system being so bad how about these statistics…..
1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality in Canada is 9 percent higher than in the United States, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher, and colon cancer among men is about 10 percent higher.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from statin drugs, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease, are taking them. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons, and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate, and colon cancer:

Nine out of ten middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to fewer than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).

Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a Pap smear, compared to fewer than 90 percent of Canadians.

More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a prostatespecific antigen (PSA) test, compared to fewer than one in six Canadians (16 percent).

Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with fewer than one in twenty Canadians (5 percent).

5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report “excellent” health (11.7 percent) compared to Canadian seniors (5.8 percent). Conversely, white, young Canadian adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower-income Americans to describe their health as “fair or poor.”

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long—sometimes more than a year—to see a specialist, have elective surgery such as hip replacements, or get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In Britain, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and British adults say their health system needs either “fundamental change” or “complete rebuilding.”

8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the “health care system,” more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared with only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain. An overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identify computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade—even as economists and policy makers unfamiliar with actual medical practice decry these techniques as wasteful. The United States has thirty-four CT scanners per million Americans, compared to twelve in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has almost twenty-seven MRI machines per million people compared to about six per million in Canada and Britain.

10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other developed country. Since the mid- 1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to U.S. residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past thirty-four years did a scientist living in the United States not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.

I understand what your saying completely and I don’t see this new system being the same as the systems in Canada and Europe. The reason being is all that thier trying to do now is reduce waist and streamline effeciency to reduce costs and group buying power is one way to do this to get more people insured.

The vast majority of people will be insured by the money that comes out of thier own pockets or the companies thier working for through thier group plan. Unlike the systems in Canada and Europe we won’t have to pay anything to the government such as taxes to have medical covergae like they do there. Almost everybody will pay out of thier own pockets to an insurance company they choose.

Americans are inovative because we like to build things and want the best for everybody and we know thats what it takes to keep things moving. Im not saying all doctors are this way but there are enough of them that thats why those guidelines are inplace, to protect the policy holders from a price hike caused by those type of things. Im sure these rules and stipulations were drawn up not by politicians but by medical professionals that are very versed and have practiced in the medical field for many years and have heard of these types of things, perhaps even been responsible for a doctors liscense being pulled. Politicians couldn’t come up with all these stipulations only someone in the medical field could. Im not feeling like I have to defend myself only clarify a few things and give my personal opinion so people feel a little safer. Someone better give the insurance and medical industry a heads up or most of us are in big trouble. All I can see is streamlineing the sysytem and getting them to see things a little diffrent will create a system of less waist and room for people to gouge policy holders, thier getting railed right now and shouldn’t be.

I know if this new system passes it will probably have problems right off the bat and those things will be straightened out as they come. I personally believe things will be for the better and people won’t have to go without the necessary medical care they need. I don’t think this new system is going to ration anyone that really needs help but limit people who go to the emergency room all the time. Some people visit the hospital more then they need and with these new rules it will stop that. There are some new and very good ideas that are being thought of now and will be inplace and I think the insurance and medical fields will be better organized, things are pretty unorganized right now. Its discussions like this that help people find whats right and point out the things that are wrong, it helps clear the way. Right now I’ve got to go plant some fall beets for canning.

the postal service loses money every year and is in the process of stopinf saturday mail and closing thousands of its offices sounds well run to me.

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I understand what your saying completely and I don’t see this new system being the same as the systems in Canada and Europe. The reason being is all that thier trying to do now is reduce waist and streamline effeciency to reduce costs and group buying power is one way to do this to get more people insured.

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When considering it is the US government being referred to above, that entire paragraph could be posted under the heading “Saturday Funny”.

Some quick points. We have free health care. Disagree? Go to the doc and get treated and don’t pay the bill. See if they’ll treat you the next time. (Hint: They WILL!)

We also already have “socialized” health care. Disagree? See above!

I believe the vast majority of Americans are confused about this entire topic. Notice there is a common theme? No one, not a one, is asking for better or more qualified doctors. Instead they are asking, essentially, for FREE health care! Maybe what is more accurate is the gOv is making us think that is what everyone is looking for. The people speaking out at the town hall meetings seem to be saying something entirely different.

I’m holding out though for grocery insurance or maybe even fishing insurance. Sounds insane doesn’t it? Well believe me if a certain type of politician can get any traction with those ideas they’ll use them. All it takes is a group of politicians to offer something like that as “help to those in need” and that will create a group who needs. Human nature seems to be like water or electricity, take the path of least resistance. When one group offer “help” and another waits for “help”, those that offer get elected. The group that didn’t offer and didn’t need “help” get to pay for it, leaving them with “change”.

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Sometime it seems like people have too much envy of successful people without understanding how hard they actually WORK for it…..

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Sometime it seems like people have too much envy of successful people without understanding how hard they actually WORK for it…..

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I would just get in trouble here if I opend my mouth and told any one what I think of the CHANGE so far

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I would just get in trouble here if I opend my mouth and told any one what I think of the CHANGE so far

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Change???? Did I go fishing and miss something? Did the the spiraling out of control stop and we regained control of our Gov’ts spending??????

A compromise maybe?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

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the postal service loses money every year and is in the process of stopinf saturday mail and closing thousands of its offices sounds well run to me.

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The only way the postal service could survive in the capacity that it was…. is to “charge” for every email sent over the internet. This was brought up years ago and I am sure, you would not like that. So basically, they have to downsize, I don’t blame gov’t or who is running the postal service for the internet being invented. I don’t think you can really say you had a good idea to keep the postal service at it’s capacity ??? Or do you ??? I am all ears….

big G

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The only way the postal service could survive in the capacity that it was…. is to “charge” for every email sent over the internet.

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Maybe the USPS could charge a per item fee for everything sent via UPS, Fed Ex, Speedy and every other means of information transportation as well. Heck why stop there? Why not have them charge us a few pennies per text message or phone call we make too. I’m kidding of course. But I can’t imagine how the internet has anything to do with the USPS losing money long term. So fewer things are sent via USPS. All that does is adjust the volume to an amount it once was. So cut backs obviously have to be made that is all.

I’m still waiting on someone to point out an industry that was “rescued” by the gOv that is now the pinnacle of success. Anyone…Anyone…No one?

Try to think back before email….. letters. When is the last time, if ever depending on your age…. that you actually got a letter ? Between the internet, cell phones and texting, if you cannot see how they could adversely affect the USPS way… a piece of paper, that you put in a envelope, with a stamp, then put in a box and 3 days later, the intended recipient gets it.. then I guess you just are not seeing it. Geez…..

big G

I understand exactly what you are saying G. But as I said all the internet did was readjust the USPS to a point earlier in time when their work load was the same. Yet it is internet that gets the blame. No one seems to realize their are hundreds of other carriers similar to UPS and Fed Ex, all privately owned, and all more responsible for taking a bite out of the USPS pie than the internet is. Either way and no matter who or what is responsible for the decline of the USPS the gOv is mismanaging it. Matter of fact it seems the same has happened to the USPS that happened to the Big 3. The gOv was all over TV last October telling us how the auto makers failed to change with the times. Seems silly that they’d say that when they themselves allowed all these private upstarts to take their pie from them.

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Or even worse, try going to a VA Hospital as your primary health care provider.
Talk about an eye opening experience of what govt run health care looks like.

By the way, I’ll maybe need to send the info off some of you guys’ profiles to [email protected]

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I guess I have to object to this one. The VA in Minneapolis is considered the best hospital in the Metro. It is also a “model” hospital that all other VAs are to achieve to when it comes to standards.
It also isn’t free for Veterans. You still have to pay. During employment transitions, I choose to use the VA at a last minute ER run instead of using my huge deductable that I had with my COBRA.
To say the least, I was catereed too and received INCREDIBLE care!!!! I was shocked and even told some of the doctors there that! I was treated #1 there and it was very heart warming to see all the Vets getting great care.
The quality of care and the quality of medical treatment received really put me at a “postive” loss of words.

I’ll give your Minneapolis VA a HUGE:

The internet, has replaced more catalogs and junk mail, than we can even fathom here. This is work that the USPS had exclusively. UPS and FedEx and Speedy are set up to deliver packages, bigger trucks and not a dedicated route. USPS could not feasably switch to handling packages, in that volume and be cost effective to compete with the others. They were and are set up to handle mail…. the equipment, from sorters to vehicles are for handling mail. They have adjusted through the centuries, from the pony express, to worldwide delivery, in a few days. Now when you can write an email, hit send and it is in Hong Kong in 5 minutes, well the USPS seems kinda slow……. & outdated, through technology advances, I can’t see blaming gov’t

big G