cash for clunkers?

Empire records were meant to be broken!!

I don’t think we are at the end of the world here. We’re pouring some cash into a program that gets cars with poor gas mileage off the road and helps buyers in tough economic times afford a new vehicle.
All while reducing our dependence on foreign oil and reducing our carbon footprint.

I don’t see the bad part of this, especially compared to recent gov’t actions of providing a straight cash rebate and then ‘asking’ people to spend it instead of paying off bills! These federal dollars are being spent on what they intended them to be spent on.

There’s been a ton of negativity recently around our political leaders, but we need to see what this admin. can do. Heck, we just voted them into office in convincing fashion and even voted in a comedian in my neighboring state over a level headed guy who built them a hockey stadium. Hmmmm……

Plus, even though there are exceptions, the majority of people on this site, have a job, a car or two, a boat, an amount of fishing tackle that would take a sizable amount of cash to replace, a home, etc, etc.

We need to remember what we have and continue to have debates over what we do to make things better. Right now, healthcare isn’t working and we need to find a better solution. I’m not sure if what’s been proposed is the best route, but it’s an attempt and we need to make this one and more if we’re going to fix it.

Despite our economy and poor healthcare system, I think we got it pretty good!

ET

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Right now, healthcare isn’t working

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My health care is just fine. Tell me about why I should pay for yours???

You know I like ya Coug, just posting as devils advocate who likes this debate. I pay for my family and some days, I work my [censored] off. Not like those union guys… KIDDING BOYS(sorry Jerry).

Seriously!!! I’m all for helping those in true need. Not the lazy!!! Govt run programs have proven to be joke and will ruin this country.

I read something from an IDO member a long time ago. I thought, “he’s just full of it”. Well, it seems(God, I hope us “freaking out”) are wrong. Democratic societys have fallen throughout time. Why? Because the poor figured out they outweigh the rich. The rich get bored and quit trying.

I hope I don’t ever quit trying, but I feel I already have to some extent.

Shoot! I’m in the wrong forum!

I thought this thread was “Catfish for Clunkers”.

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Right now, healthcare isn’t working

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My health care is just fine. Tell me about why I should pay for yours???

Democratic societys have fallen throughout time. Why? Because the poor figured out they outweigh the rich. The rich get bored and quit trying.

I hope I don’t ever quit trying, but I feel I already have to some extent.

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“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” – Alexis de Tocqueville

Someone, anyone, name me ONE industry that was struggling that is now the pinnacle of success since the gOv took it over. NAME ME ONE!!

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My health care is just fine. Tell me about why I should pay for yours???

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My health care is adequate as well. But I believe basic healthcare should be provided to all, regardless of income or job status.

I have not read the plan yet, I’ve actually been told by some knowledgeable folks that there is no bill, just some written ideas. Is the plan to scrap all current healthcare or just find a way to provide basic healthcare for those that don’t have it.

I thought I had read that the government program would be like any other large company, just to a scale no company could match in terms of volume. The govt, would negotiate rates with current health insurers and provide coverage to all uninsured Americans. Kooty, you and I would keep our current plans.

That makes more sense to me. But I do work in the healthcare industry and believe there is room for improvement.

I think it would be foolish for the govt to control all healthcare as some countries do. But why not offer up a plan for those that are unemployed or employed but their employer doesn’t provide coverage. $$$$ I know, but would the cost of the program outweigh the costs we have today from the uninsured? Those that don’t seek preventative care or care even when they have a legitimate issue.

I don’t know the answers but I know there is room for improvement. And I believe that much of what we pay today already is used to defray costs of the uninsured.

Eric

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But I believe basic healthcare should be provided to all, regardless of income or job status.

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It already is. There isn’t a public hospital in the country that will deny treatment to someone in need. People are confused though. They think, for who knows what reason, that their health care ought to be FREE.

Cougareye , the gov’t has fingers in the banks, auto business, and now possible health care. When will it stop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look what happens to gov’t owned, it is in debt and still climmbing, USPS can’t make it. Our grandchildren will be taxed to death.

We need to get all these people who are unemployed takin’ care of first. They are already covered under welfare, food stamps, and the children are covered on health care. All of this is coming out of my pocket and yours.

“Every reform movement has a lunatic fringe.”

Theodore Roosevelt

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But I believe basic healthcare should be provided to all, regardless of income or job status.

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It already is. There isn’t a public hospital in the country that will deny treatment to someone in need. People are confused though. They think, for who knows what reason, that their health care ought to be FREE.

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I’m a testament to that…
Before I became eligible for medicare this Feb. I was without insurance for 6 years….
During this time I required 2 surgery’s…Minor but deficiently necessary (if you cannot swallow anything it’s necessary )
Each one was $4,000…
During my treatment there was not one question about if I could pay….That came later when I was billed….
That was when we went through the process for the hospitals charity care program….They paid every dime!!
My FW also had really bad cataracts in one eye….same thing….And they never once demeaned our situation..
Now that we are doing better(not great,but better )
we are sending the charity $50 a month…
IMHO I think this goes on all over the USA but nobody seems to admit it..

Do away with income tax and put a 12% sales tax on everything purchased by the end user. Now you will only be taxed on what you spend and not what you make. The gov. would have more money coming in than they would know what to do with. What do you guys think?

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But I believe basic healthcare should be provided to all, regardless of income or job status.

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There isn’t a public hospital in the country that will deny treatment to someone in need.

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That is not true. People are denied the treatment they need every day in the USA. In my “other” line of work, I witness it regularly.

But, many people do get medical help without having the funds to pay for it. And I would rather have people getting the care they need through their physicians rather than going to the ER like so many have to do. Nothing is free, and the ER is freaking expensive. And who pays for it when someone gets “free” medical care? We do. You’re paying for it now through your high insurance premiums, your incredibly high hospital bills/medical bills, your taxes, and your social security deductions. You’re going to pay one way or another, unless we as a society choose to watch the poor and working class suffer and die from health problems. As frustrating as this all is, I doubt that’s what any of you really prefer. To let them suffer? To let them die? I doubt it.

Health care is a separate issue in my mind. It’s required. People in this country should have adequate health care.

They need medical care. They don’t need a nicer car or a nicer house, though.

I laugh at how this tends to become a democrat versus republican argument for so many. If I recall correctly, we just had 8 years of a republican president. How’d that work out? I know, that’s the fault of the democrats too. Dems or Republicans, it doesn’t matter. It’s government ineptness that is a big part of the problem. It doesn’t matter what party. The government has gotten too big, the wealthy have gotten too greedy and unethical, the poor too complacent and dependent, and the middle class and working class have been suckered into thinking they can buy anything they want with that wonderful thing we call “credit”. We can see where that has gotten us. Everyone’s to blame. Everyone’s accountable in a democracy. We need to stop point the finger and playing politics, and start finding real solutions.

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True words Tim Unfortunately, unemployment is only around 10%….. I don’t want to see another 40% I can’t remember where I read it, but some philosipher said that no Empire can ever survive more than 200 years…. He referenced the Roman Empire….. 1776-2009 = 233 years… are we on borrowed time ???? I believe we might be.

big G

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I think we will be around for a while yet.

The Roman Empire lasted 1200 years.

Our government will change over time (good and not so good) but our country will survive.

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True words Tim Unfortunately, unemployment is only around 10%….. I don’t want to see another 40% I can’t remember where I read it, but some philosipher said that no Empire can ever survive more than 200 years…. He referenced the Roman Empire….. 1776-2009 = 233 years… are we on borrowed time ???? I believe we might be.

big G

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I think we will be around for a while yet.

The Roman Empire lasted 1200 years.

Our government will change over time (good and not so good) but our country will survive.

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See… thats what I get for trying to remember something I read….. Yeah, the country will survive, but in what state ??? That’s what I read in alot of these posts and what various talkshows are saying… America will not be able recognize itself…. Oh, well… were all along for the ride and if the ride gets too rough, I can see some forming some kind of revolution of sorts. I for one can remember my dad and before him my grandpa, talking about how this country is going to he77 in a handbasket. Maybe it is what it is….. change. Maybe it has been happening for all time….. somebody just happened to run on it as a platform and it worked…

big G

Ya Wade I agree, how does the hospitals get thier money besides gifts and endowments? They pass all thier total costs to the people who pay cash and insurance companies. Im not yelling or pointing the finger at anyone. I know its not liked by some, maybe most people, to see lazy bums get health care, maybe they could stuff envelopes for the post office. Lazy bums are a small majority but when they get sick I don’t want to see them die and they need to be treated and most of all the hospitals and doctors need to get paid for those services so those prices aren’t passed onto people who are paying for thier plans.

Do I think theres socialists sitting at a table making these new rules, I know there isn’t because the group plan which has bargining power is what the government wants. All that is is with these new government guidelines is people just like you and I will be able to pick and choose from a long list of available care thats going to be offered by the insurance companies that are going to do business with the government. Buying in group form with the new price guidlines anyone will be able to choose a plan and most will be able to pay for it out of thier pockets. Imagine that for once I’ll be able to pay for health care out of my own pocket and so will millions of others who are now without any health care at all and thinking about catistrophic health problems.

There will be employers who will get inline so they can get healthcare for thier employees. Some employers may choose to buy it for thier employees out of thier own pockets and others will take a weekly amount out of the employees paychecks to pay for it, just like whats happening now. All this so people will be covered and the hospitals and doctors will get thier money, all from cheaper insurance plans, not socialists plans.

If People want they will be able to keep thier own plans, doctors and the way they have been doing things in the past. If they decide thier not happy or just curious what the insurance companies that are working for the governemnt have to offer and they find it a better deal they can then buy there, if not and they want to keep thier same plan they can. Why would the insurance companies that are going to do business with the government have anything diffrent to offer except for a better deal, care wise and money wise. Id be willing to bet they already have very competitive plans and ideas drawn up that they are going to offer to the public. I know theres always a little speculation and doubt so im going to wait and see, I just hope we get something better then we have now, which is out of my reach and others too.

*Edited because I lost my temper*

Carry on guys…..It’s fishing for me from now on

Sorry I just got in on the tail end of this post, but I wanted to add something to the healthcare discussion. First of all, setting up a group plan for all is not going to make healthcare more affordable for everyone. I talk to people everyday who are in their 20s and 30s and are fed up with paying high costs of group coverage. Their paying a high cost because they have to offset the rest of the people in the group, so they leave and go to individual insurance. Now guess what, the only people left on the group plan are those that use the insurance often. Withouth the healthy people who pay premiums and never use the coverage, the insurance company will have to raise the premiums (assuming its a normal for profit or breakeven company).
Switching to things from a hospitals point of view, a government plan similar to medicare would be a nightmare. My friend works in medical billing and from what I hear medicare basically sets the price they will pay for services and sets a cap on it as well. These prices are significantly lower than what their regular charges would be. So I ask who is currently footing the bill for that? And how much worse is it going to get? I’m all for customary charges and negotiated rates, but when you have elite hospitals like Mayo is it fair for them to have to charge the same prices?
Do I think healthcare costs need to be lowered? Yes I do, but I don’t believe any of the current ideas are the answer.

I think the key things that will go to work here is the amount of people who will putting in thier money that aren’t now. In other words the people who aren’t insured now because they can’t afford the present rates will be buying insurance because of the lower rates that will be offered. There will be more money coming into the sysytem from alot of younger people who get sick less so thats less expense for the insurance sysytem. Most everybody knows younger and healthier people get treated less and thier pooled money takes care of the people that get ill more and need care, that happens in all health care. More people insured means more money to take care of the ones who get ill. To me it looks like theres not enough people in the system so that limits the money available for the insurance companies to pay thier bills. The more people insured the more money the insurance companies have to work with. Alot of people will never use thier insurance because they just don’t get sick and all that money will go twards care for the ones who need it and healthcare will be there incase they need it. One of the reasons the rates are so high is the insurance compaies only have so much money to work with, with more people putting money into the system, more money will be available.

One of the reasons that theres rules on how much Medicare will pay is because thats the limit that most treatments should cost. I know it dosen’t sound right but it gives incentive to the caregivers to get the job done right and the first time.

George this old friend of mine contacted E-coli a couple months ago because of a bladder that wasen’t working right. He spent 3 weeks in the hospital then because he was so weak and then 2 weeks in a nurseing home and there they were going to teach him how to walk again because this infection darned near killed him and sapped all his strength, I found out E-coli is nothing to mess with. I asked him how long he was going to be there and he said 3 weeks and I said why is there a limit and he said because they should have me walking again in that time. They pushed him and worked with him and finially got him on his feet walking again. So thats why they put limits on certain things because health officials know things can be done in that time so the system is run the way its supposed too and effeciently.

There are institutions and doctors in the whole medical system that are and will get everything they can from the insurance companies and thats why medicare puts limits on how much they will pay. With some new rules and guidelines theres going to be less temptation for people to charge what they can instead if what they need to and that will drop prices.

I don’t see how people are going to be putting in more money. The low life slackers of the American society are not going to pay anything for healthcare. How can an umemployed person afford healthcare when they have no income? Children?

I guess, I’m with RR on this one. Show me a government program that has been run efficiently/well since taking it away from the private sector.

Yes, I’d like to see every child in this country have healthcare. Every disabled American should have healthcare. However, these slackers who are lifetime wellfare abusers, well, I’ve got no sympathy for them.

So how does “cash for Clunkers” work. My 98 chevy Silverado is in need of some work and Im wondering if I would be better off trading it in. Do I get both trade in money for it and cash for clunkers money?

Health insurance sucks the way it is now. We currently pay $15k a year for our insurance for the 5 of us and it looks like we will be loosing this later this year. That is a third of our income. Other plans we have looked at offer less coverage and we have to split the family onto different plans. I have to wonder if we loose our current coverage if the kids wont be going on some state aid plan and who knows what the wife and I will be doing.

I have no idea if what Obama is doing is good or not. One thing I am happy about is that he is stirring the pot and trying to get some type change in the system.

Ya Kooty I know what your saying. Theres millions now who are working that don’t make enough money for the present prices of healthcare. Heres some examples, Most people who work in the food industry like waitresses and cooks. Janitors and people that go to anyones home to clean them. People who work for nurseries and green houses that grow plants to sell. Small mom and pop places of all kinds that sell anything from lightbulbs to pet foods. Small business that paint houses and build new homes and repair them. People who work at gas stations and tire repair shops on the corner. People who work for the neighborhood pizza places and small grocery stores. And theres a whole lot of other small business like lawn maintainence companies to people who work for vetrenarians.

Most of these people make anywhere from $3 to $6 an hour under what it takes to get a basic plan. Some of these people have children and they come first with putting food in thier mouths and clothes on thier back plus school supplies. With the high costs of utilities and gas to go to work they don’t have close to enough money to buy a plan at present prices, its expensive to raise kids, I know I raised two. Alot of these people would buy a less expensive plan if givin the opportunity, especially the ones who are thinking about buying thier first home and want to make sure that incase something serious happens to one of thier children thier covered so thier home won’t be liened to pay the bill.

Theres millions that fit in the group that are just under what it takes to get a present plan. You can’t force them to buy a plan if they don’t have the money but if you offered them a cheaper plan they would buy it. Most young families children just fall in the dirt and get scraped up and get a few bruises and maybe break a leg, they are the healthy ones. They are the ones who need minimum care and it wouldn’t take as much to take care of them. Theres always exceptions With longer term illnesses but if everyone is paying something into the system there will be more money to work with.

Its all for the better if everyone pays a little something and pools thier money then they can buy into a group plan, that too me sounds similiar or is to a co-op plan. Theres lots of co-ops that work for alot of people in what they do. Alot of people put in there money or what they have to offer into a bargining pool to attain something they want and theres nothing wrong with that, the farming industry works like that in some areas. The more money you have the more you can work and bargin with. This is not communism or socialism, its called tradeing for a good deal and theres value in alot of things besides money.

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One of the reasons that theres rules on how much Medicare will pay is because thats the limit that most treatments should cost. I know it dosen’t sound right but it gives incentive to the caregivers to get the job done right and the first time.

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Correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems like you do not trust your health care professionals to treat a illness effectively? Would you rather have a doctor tell you how long it should take to be able to go home, or a senator looking to win another election?

I hear you farmboy and understand. Im glad theres time guidelines for certain conditions and certain illensses or those people would be treated as theres no time limit and people that are doing good will be kept longer if theres a vacant bed. Its like if an apartment complex is full they have maximum money comeing into the complex, I think its about the same with care facilities. Doctors and therapists have been treating these illnesses for a long time and they know how long it takes to get results most of the time. Im sure that if those patients need a little extra longer because of thier condition they may be kept longer or they may be sent home and a therapist will be sent to the home, George mentioned this. Something I have learned is that if a certain step dosen’t work they have an alternative to get those people back on thier feet.

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Health insurance sucks the way it is now. We currently pay $15k a year for our insurance for the 5 of us and it looks like we will be loosing this later this year. That is a third of our income. Other plans we have looked at offer less coverage and we have to split the family onto different plans. I have to wonder if we loose our current coverage if the kids wont be going on some state aid plan and who knows what the wife and I will be doing.

I have no idea if what Obama is doing is good or not. One thing I am happy about is that he is stirring the pot and trying to get some type change in the system.

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Have you looked into MNCARE or UCARE? You can earn over $60,000 yearly with a family your size and still qualify for the “State run insurance”. My family & I were on the UCare program a while back & paid $252.00 a month for all 6 of us. No Co-pay at all. Best health coverage we’ve ever had-I’m trying to drop my income again just to get back on…

Medicare pricing is the “poverty” price, not the true cost of a procedure.
Medical Assistance is the same.
Hospitals, clinics and the such would go broke if all they recieved is this pricing, hence why your private insurance price for the same procedure is much higher.
The reasonable and customary pricing for a procedure is a relative value unit multiplyed by the medicare pricing for that given year.
We have to make a decision: either health care is a for profit business or a humanitarian effort. The two can not be married together, as is currently being tried.
Overall, if the charges for procedures go down to the poverty level(of which is not even breaking even for most institutions), how are you going to have the same level of service?????
Somehow, somewhere, the money will have to come to keep it going.
Do you think doctors are going to want to take a cut in income?
Do you think all the employees at the hospitals are going to want to take a cut in income?
Do you think the electric bill for the hospital, well as all the other costs, are going to magically reduce??
What about all the helicopters flying around–think they will cost less????

I agree the current private for profit insurance system (hence the greedy middle man)is the main culprit in this mess, but many other things have spiralled out of control and are now equally at fault to combat the pricing inequality.
I would be for nonprofit insurance companies and true pricing for all types of health plans, including Medicare and medical assistance that institutions could truely survive on.
My buick century with 192K does not qualify for cash for clunkers.

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So how does “cash for Clunkers” work. My 98 chevy Silverado is in need of some work and Im wondering if I would be better off trading it in. Do I get both trade in money for it and cash for clunkers money?

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Mike, you only get 1 or the other. If its worth more than $4500, you would take the trade offer. Most vehicles I see coming in on the deal are $1000 keys and a heater cars.

big G

Thanks. I think trade in for my truck is right around $4500. Now if they would let me take it for a weekend to hatch the engine that may be fun.