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New hires make less than the new hires at Toyota.
Nice!
Exactly !!! You made my point !!! They didn’t need to hire a union for it either. New hires, that work for Toyota, get paid for the hours they put in. If they are no good at their job, they are shown the door. Also, when they retire, they are like the rest of us & I hope they put some of the extra $$$ they were making, into a 401K. Agreed, this has been very civil 
big G 
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Mike, I know a lot of employers who treat their workers great and union protection is not needed. Gee! Did I just say that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But I also know of many where the employees are treated like low class dirt. The turnover rate is tremendous enough that the companies resort to bussing in out of staters so to speak.
Some of you say we union backers are living in the past, and unions are not needed in this day and age because we have the NLRB and OSHA looking out for us. Those two gov. bodies are only as good as the present admin. in Washington.
If all the unions were to vanish today making all negotiated contracts null and void, I feel safe in saying by the start of the next workweek you’d be picking your butt up off the floor wondering what happened to your wages and bennies you worked so hard for and the non union employers gave freely because they’re so good to work for.
I still believe if the unions go down, the American worker will follow.
This IS my last post to this thread, but I want to thank all of you for keeping this thread so civil and actually friendly. My hat’s off to you guys.
There are plenty of union shops that treat there employees like crap and have high turn over. How a company treats its employees I believe has very little to do with if it is a union company or not. The employer is going to conduct them selves the way they want. If your current work situation is good why would you want to stir it up by added a union to the mix.
If all the unions where to end in this country we would get along with out them? Yes. Would there be some unrest for a while? I believe so but we would get along just fine.
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New hires make less than the new hires at Toyota.
Nice!
Exactly !!! You made my point !!! They didn’t need to hire a union for it either. New hires, that work for Toyota, get paid for the hours they put in. If they are no good at their job, they are shown the door. Also, when they retire, they are like the rest of us & I hope they put some of the extra $$$ they were making, into a 401K. Agreed, this has been very civil
big G
And the employees have no backbone either. If they say no you will work 65 hours a week 7 days a week they can’t say no or they get the boot. Sorry I will stick with my union brothers and in the contract it says no MANDATORY overtime so I can be home with the family and enjoy my life. Toyota employees are just scabs!!!!!!!!!
So you like the union because you can walk out, when the company is busy. Nice. That right there, just shows the mentality of us and them, that’s what the union fosters. When I was hourly, 15 or more years ago, I could never understand the guy who would work for $10.00 per hour, for 8 hours and then when something needed to get done & he would be asked to finish it, he would beoch for an hour while making $15.00 per hour ??? To each their own. Business does not like to pay overtime either, they would just as soon the employees work the 40 they are there…. believe me, there was ALOT of foot dragging during the end of the week, so guys could get overtime… in a union shop I was in… 
big G
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Toyota employees are just scabs!!!!!!!!!
Must be a hard core union man here. Haven’t heard the word scab in years.
The union fellas I know are the biggest scabs I have ever met…..doing side jobs, stabbing their boss in the back…..on and on. It’s a mentality of “I am for myself and myself only”. That works until the company goes broke or has no work.
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This IS my last post to this thread, but I want to thank all of you for keeping this thread so civil and actually friendly. My hat’s off to you guys.
Agreed. I grew up in Austin during the Hormel strike years. As someone that has heard commentary on labor relations worked into the sunday sermons I know how heated and polarizing this topic could get. To those that have participated… your opinions are your own and you’re entitled to them… as much as we’re all entitled to common courtesy and respect. So far the vast majority of those that have responded have shown both… and that’s to be commended.
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union because you can walk out, when the company is busy. Nice. That right there, just shows the mentality of us and them, that’s what the union fosters. When I was hourly, 15 or more years ago, I could never understand the guy who would work for $10.00 per hour, for 8 hours and then when something needed to get done & he would be asked to finish it, he would beoch for an hour while making $15.00 per hour ???
Damn Big G, you must have worked for the same places I did 
But, it isn’t solely the union’s fault that people are the way they are. A lot of it has to do with work ethics and how you were raised.
I hated my step-dad with a passion(actually still do), but one thing positive I did learn from him was work ethics. You worked until the job was done regardless. How many union people would be willing to stay after the buzzer blew to finish up a job? Not many, that would mean they would work themselves out of a job or they wouldn’t be asked to work overtime. I worked farm jobs where overtime is not paid even if you worked 60 hours a week. The union guys I worked with called that slave labor. I called it getting the work done and putting out more effort than was asked.
I have also had people in this area not want to hire me after working for a large manufacturing business that was union. The hiring people flat out told me most of the people they hired in the past from said company, didn’t last because they didn’t think they had to work.
I did work beside a very few guys that didn’t go along with the union philosophy and did what they were hired to do, but not many. We obviously didn’t have a lot of friends and the union stewards hated us for working too hard.
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Your figuires on the ‘legacy costs’ are a bit off big G.
There is no healthcare for life. It stops when they hit medicare/medicaid age.
80% wages is off also. It’s more like 50% or less, depending on how many years beyond 30 you put in. And when you turn 62yrs, you lose nearly half of that.
Toyota doesn’t see legacy costs yet just because they haven’t been going here long enough. It will be there some day tho. Just remember, these contracts are sighned off on both sides and nobody held a gun to anybody’s head to do so.
I guess we all can spin this whichever way we please. I just feel the facts need to be put forth.
I report, you decide.
Herb,
I respecfuly disagree. Many of the old union contracts have provisions related to health care and large portions of there last 1 to 5 year rolling average pay. As an example. My grandfather was a butcher for a large grocery store. Now 80 years old he still carrys his heath bene’s from the day he ret (At 0 cost.) and recieves 80% of his pay. (I’ve enven seen examples where the annual income increases for inflation.) Many of these contracts were written before medsups and the edvantage plans now available. I can give you many more examples if you like. I see them almost every day due to how I make a living and where I now live. (Fort Myers has a large number of ret. individuals from Detroit.) The same contracts exist in many industry’s and the companies are paying out the nose for them. (IE.. The big three.) This is why the companies negotiated to send control of the pensions and medical benefits to the UAW. (Ford and Chrystler)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/business/15auto.html
The VEBA trust controls manyof these Health and retirement Bene’s. This is also why those two MAY have a chance to make it going forward. If the pensions fail it’s no longer the companies fault. They will fund the benefits and the union will do what it does with the money.
As for Toyota having legacy costs in the future…… It won’t happen. Because the comany is non union the employess are provided with a 401k (With Company Match) and health bene’s. At retierment they head into the sunset living off of what they chose to save over the years. Because they have no legacy cost Toyota has the ability to pay it’s employees well and still make a buck. (These number are readily available on line.) Here’s just one example. Type “Toyota VS Big Three labor rates” into a google search
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Vs-Toyota-Wages-And-Benefits.aspx
This post is just one reason our country is great. Everyone has an opinion and we all the ability to communitate them.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Chris
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