My co-workers are talking about voting in a union. I know most of the pros of joining one are, but really, what are the cons (besides union fee’s)?
This is in the Health Care field, so it may be different than others.
We have an information meeting on Monday with one of the two unions we are looking at.
Thanks.
Make sure your union representative can negotiate hard (without being overbearing) on your behalf & write a damn good contract.
The biggest problem I had with working in a union is when people would approach me & tell me to slow down, stop working so hard, your making us all look bad. Also, seniority based promotions rather than performance based promotions were the norm.
Another issue is employee engagement. There were many years where people just would not show up for any meetings. Some of the topics and issues were significant relating to salaries & benefits. Some people just didnt think their voice made a difference.
Todays companies are skilled & educated in dealing with organized labor unions, but are lacking in the experience field. By lacking in experience I mean that non-union companies will typically have people fast-tracking or moving up/around/laterally within the organization. These people might have gone to some type of schooling for human resources, etc.. but they do not have seasoned real experience that someone who saw the factory pavement before OSHA was even a thought.
Good luck,
The Union Rep Kid
First off, why do you need a union? Whats making this a necessity?
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First off, why do you need a union? Whats making this a necessity?
I agree, there has to be a reason why you’d want to unionize. In my experience working w/ mgmt can expose some of the core issues and then the workers and mgmt can work together to resolve.
I could get a more detailed as to how a union would benefit You if I knew what kind of business you are in. I personally a member of the IBEW Local 949. We are in manufacturing. I know for a fact that if we were not union our wages would be half of what we get paid today.
Good:
-Better pay and benefits
-No getting fired when you have more experence than the bosses kid
-No individual negotiations-everyone is represented equally
-Union benefits
-Your salary increase (Negotiated) will easily pay for any union dues be paid for.
Bad
-those who want to work around the union and deal with the company individually.
-If people you work with are greedy it could make negotiations difficult.
-Having to protect everyone equally in the work place. Wether they are a slug or an outspoken critic.
And union dues are not bad. If I were not union represented I would probably making around $15/hr ($2400/mo)Industry average. I currenlty make $25/hr.($4000/mo) So why is paying union dues a bad thing? I pay about 1.25%, I think, of my gross to the union. Thats $30 a month at $15 and About $50 at $25. So let me see, looks like about $1600 diffence. Now is the $30 or $50 really a bad thing?
I have been a union steward for about 8 years now.
I hope I answered some of your question. With out doubt a union in todays world is necessary. Companies are squeezing the worker till they bleed and if you are not in a union you have no recourse.
Good luck with your vote. What union are you voting to enter?
My experiences with Unions in the 2 I was in, are they cater to the lazy people.
Sure, they negotiated decent wages for the people, but half the time in order to get that, there were always wars between the union and the company.
I worked with many people who’s motto was, “It is the unions job to get the most money for the least amount of work”. I cannot work in an environment like that and hope I never do again. I have been told I was going to work us all into a lay-off 
My motto is and always will be, ” An honest day’s work for an honest days pay”.
Of course the unions sure didn’t help any of us to keep our jobs around here lately. I know I will never go back to my previous job, never make that kind of money, but I will be much happier without the union “benefits”.
Just my opinion on unions, you don’t half to like that opinion, I will respect your beliefs.
Mike, no matter what line of work you’re in, you will always have deadbeats whether there is a union or not. That’s a fact. So don’t blame unions for that.
Most unionized workers give a fair days work for a fair days wage. That’s a fact.
One of the benefits of seniority during a layoff period is ‘last one in will be the first one out’. It happens this way in most non union shops also. That’s a fact.
I’ll give one last fact before I back out of this.
Every union is different from the next in one way or another. It truely is the members who make the union what it is or can be. There are many Federal and state laws regulating what a union can and can’t do and even what they HAVE to do for the membership. There’s a lot that people on the outside and even the inside don’t know or understand about unions.
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I know for a fact that if we were not union our wages would be half of what we get paid today.
Good:
-Better pay and benefits
-No getting fired when you have more experence than the bosses kid
-No individual negotiations-everyone is represented equally
-Union benefits
-Your salary increase (Negotiated) will easily pay for any union dues be paid for.
Bad
-those who want to work around the union and deal with the company individually.
-If people you work with are greedy it could make negotiations difficult.
-Having to protect everyone equally in the work place. Wether they are a slug or an outspoken critic.And union dues are not bad. If I were not union represented I would probably making around $15/hr ($2400/mo)Industry average. I currenlty make $25/hr.($4000/mo)
With out doubt a union in todays world is necessary. Companies are squeezing the worker till they bleed and if you are not in a union you have no recourse.Good luck with your vote. What union are you voting to enter?
* We can argue about wages being half but if your not union and believe your worth more per hour why not find a job that rewards “pay for performance” and seek out that position? Seems to be a backwards standard especially in todays economics. You mention $25 vs $15 per hour. Not judging your skill set but if $15 is the going rate for a job why is $25 even justified. That is half the trouble w/ companies that are in trouble.
* A lot of companies are “at-will” employment. While it is entirely possible to be replaced by the “boss’s kid” it generally doesn’t happen if your a good worker. Mgmt and the board of directors sees through that jargon. You mention recourse, recourse is to find a different job that has merit on position and performance.
To many times the belief is unions protect our jobs? The reality is that it doesn’t stop the company from shutting its door due to ecomonic hardship when your forced to keep employees based on year of service vs quality of craft in a downsize movement of your company. Put yourself in the other shoes when you know your a better and harder worker but in a downturn are let go because of years of service.
Seems like people have covered the pros and cons, pretty good.
IMO the biggest factor in Union people and moral is how management treats them. I may be partly true bad or poor workers can hide behind a union, but usually you find these people to me (un)motivated by the management.
Sadly we had a really good working union/managment thing going on at my work fostered by working together and not that we agreed on everything, we would treat each other with some respect. Sadly that’s changed rapidly over the last year or so, with a partial change in management, now they want to nit pick and write anyone up for anything they can, and there is only one way to do things now, their way, forget us and any valid input we have on ANYTHING, its really starting to bite them, it’s only going to get worse, the want everything in black and white, and that cant happen in my line of work, things change things break, crap happens, we been reduced down to following their proceedure word for word or face being written up.
Luckily the union helps protect people from bad and poor management too. Sure there are pros and cons in this econonmy I want as much protection as I can get, and the Union certainly helps, power in numbers, and the union people need to stick together, because the management always will, it evens the playing field.
Unions can be good and bad to be in. One of the good things in there is bargaining power in having a large number of people working to get the same end results as opposed to you trying negotiate wages and benefits with the boss by yourself.
The bad thing is like others have said, the union protects people who can’t or are unwilling to pull their equal share. For instance- I am a machinist that is expected to know how to program,setup, and machine complex parts and hold tight tolerances on computer controlled milling machines & lathes. The guy next to me has a hard time putting 2 holes in a part that are the same size. He also spends nearly half the day outside smoking cigarettes. He makes the same wage as me, produces less and poorer quality parts than me, but the union gives him the same or greater protection as me. Also if he was hired before me I will get laid off before him even though I am making the company more money.
Also you could be at xyz company for 30 years and a new hire in the same job class would make the same wage as you.
Just my .02 cents worth.
The union’s greatest weapon is the strike. If anyone has been thru a long one or one that lasted for a long period they know how bad it can be. When the company brings in strike breakers there is nothing you can do to stop it. Try to work with the company, unionize as a last resort. My personal experience talking. p.s. I’m not anti union.
Strikes are something I forgot about. Went thru 2 of them in the mid 70’s at American Hoist & Derrick. first was 13 weeks and we went back for .005 more an hour. Never will make that up. 2nd was 8 weeks. Quit after that. It sucked.
After reading my post this morning, I think I should keep this to myself…
My 2 cents if the company is treating you fairly and you are happy working there now, don’t unionize, if you feel you are being treated unfairly and are unhappy then maybe would be a good thing. Worked as union and non union and think for me I have had better work environment non union.
I think, as has been mentioned, there are different types of Unions. I think unions, for a trade, are a good thing. There is lots of training, that the union provides and you have to keep up with it. I believe as a consumer, hiring a union contracted employee from the trades, you know they have the latest techniques, tools and safety training etc. etc. etc. (typically all have green cards too 
) The Union, I do not care for, is in a company under one roof, like say in manufacturing (notice all the manu jobs lost to cheaper labor), it is a bad thing. It brings the worst worker, to the pay level of an average worker and brings an excellant worker to the pay level of an average worker. I worked in a union in a manufacturing setting…. I hated it. As far as following to the letter, how your job is performed, thats what a contract is….and by all means, don’t work so hard that you make your brother look lazy 
big G 
Why don’t you look at the airline mechanics and pilots unions and make the decision? How well did the union “protect” them? This day and age unions are not necessary except in very limited industries.
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First off, why do you need a union? Whats making this a necessity?
I can’t speak for the people that are putting the meetings together, but wages and raises are an issue. I won’t go into detail here for the world, but there are other issues too.
But you all have got me thinking about the con’s of the union. Lots to think about.
One of the unions is SEIU, Service Employees International Union. I think its pretty common in Heath Care, but man they seem like…well never mind. The other one is the same one that Radiology Techs are in (not sure).
Thanks.
i know i would want nothing to do with a Union at my job. i myself take the steps needed to excel my career and earn more money. i do not want to have to wait for some contract to tell me i’m getting a raise, or that promotion.
If you are an ambitious person with a good work ethic, a union is not or you. If you are a fat lazy slob who often shirks your work, then a union is your best friend.
Unions are little more than a cancer to capitalism.
Look at the automakers and their situation partly due to the high benefits of current and retired workers the unions have stuck the automakers with.
I’m in medicine. I’ve seen unions voted in and then very quickly voted out. The hospital employees were not happy at all.
In medicine if you are good and ambitious, you will be rewarded accordingly. I haven’t had a yearly raise under 6% in the last 4 years. Despite the economy and being non-union. That’s because my boss knows I can leave any day and have another job within a few days if not hours.
Usually (in medicine) unions are not job specific (except nurses). That means if you are in radiology and not happy with your contract, you may be screwed as billing, janitorial, and business dept may be happy with their contract and not vote with you to negotiate your contract. Make sense? I hope I explained that adequately.
*Remember this! Unions do what they feel is best for everyone, including themselves. They don’t care about you as an individual. That’s why they provide such blanket protection and the lazy of us can survive.
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If you are an ambitious person with a good work ethic, a union is not or you. If you are a fat lazy slob who often shirks your work, then a union is your best friend.
Ruger, That’s what I always thought. More money for less work! I don’t know much about unions but the basics yes. A joke IMO.
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*Remember this! Unions do what they feel is best for everyone, including themselves. They don’t care about you as an individual. That’s why they provide such blanket protection and the lazy of us can survive.
Unions normally don`t care about the company weather it servives or not. One union motto I have herd many times NEVER GIVE BACK.
In the news a non union company had to make a choice either lay off 5 employees or every one take a 12% cut in pay. They chose the pay cut to help out there fellow employees. Union fire fighters had a choice take a 10% pay cut and keep one fire fighter they chose to not take the pay cut as the union policy is never give back.
Which would you rather be part of. I no where I would want to be.
“In the news a non union company had to make a choice either lay off 5 employees or every one take a 12% cut in pay. They chose the pay cut to help out there fellow employees. Union fire fighters had a choice take a 10% pay cut and keep one fire fighter they chose to not take the pay cut as the union policy is never give back.”
I knew something was wrong when last winter my local voted to not take a raise this year, give up their 401K payments and a couple of other things just to keep the doors open. Man I could be doing more fishing!!!! Cause I would be unemployed!
I guess if you have a place where you trust your employer to do the right thing, treat everyone fairly, and keep the doors open at all costs. Then maybe some of the guys are right and union is not for you. But if you have ever been burned by the bosses kid taking a job just cause of who he is or his drinking buddy getting the promotion over you, anything simular, then I would think hard about the union.
And someone commented about my pay. Apparently you do not make enough money. Cause trying to advance your pay is or should be everyones goal. If not, you are management and have no control and the boss “tells” you what he is going pay you and you have not negotiation about it.
Again good luck in what ever you choose.
Unions are good when they are needed.
When they are not needed, it creates a huge disconnect between managment and the employee. You will loose the “personal touch” when you go union.
Think of it no different that if you hire a contractor to do some work. If you hire a contractor, you don’t give a rats arse about his employees, who they are, what they are, how they are…….you just want the job done “now, cheap, & good”.
The best about unions is what the majority have forgotten about. Unions were designed to take care of the employee. Not give the employee the company, but take care of them. Mostly “safety” issues. Thus why you see all “laborer” types of positions having unions. Many employers did not create “safe work environments” for the employee years back. Thus the “steel mill workers, the auto workers, the construction workers, etc” all formed unions to ensure a good, safe, healthy environment.
Did you note I said “workers”. Do your history search on it. Talk to a “real” union person that is seasoned and been through the ropes. People who were, for example, “pipe-fitters”.
Today, it seems that besides the “workers”, it is any and all government employee jobs are union. Which I just don’t understand….. 
Im a non union electrician and would never change that but Im damn happy the union is out there driving us non union guys wages up. I dont agree with the seniorty deal I think the best man for the job should have it. I also think that if the bosses son keeps his job because he’s the bosses son thats ok his dad worked hard to open and make a sucessful company.aother thing with the union is,Ive stayed working this entire bad ecnomy time, I have several union electrician buddys 110 and 292 that have been jacked around the past few years. I agree with the union protects bad workers I give 100% every day at work and ive stayed busy coincidence I dont think so. I think the unions were important back in the yearly 1900s not so much anymore. Oh and I dont work for my dad or anyone else in my family.
Put it this way…..if you hire someone to work on your house, would you hire a union company.
I guarantee you wouldn’t, because you couldn’t afford your house.
Wages and raises are earned. In a union that is not what happens.
I do like to see everyone competitive equally though. The residential construction trades are being killed lately by all the illegal/undocumented and weekend warriors with no taxes or overhead. I would still never enter a union willingly.
I wouldn’t categorize all union people as lazy because I know a few. Some are good workers, but most only do what they need to, to get by.
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I wouldn’t categorize all union people as lazy because I know a few. Some are good workers, but most only do what they need to, to get by.
Thats flat-out ABSURD to say the least!
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I wouldn’t categorize all union people as lazy because I know a few. Some are good workers, but most only do what they need to, to get by.
Thats flat-out ABSURD to say the least!
Actually, it isn’t. I’ve been in managment in one form or another for a total of close to 20 years.
Where his statement does not apply is in 3 catagories:
1) The person who is looking for job growth.
2) The person who is self-employed.
3) The person who actually “loves” their job and works hard at it………which generally ends up being the person I said in #1.
If senority over-rules job performance for promotion, where is the incentive. Where is the incentive for a Union person to take a leadership role and become managment, when becoming management is “non-union”?
I’m staying out of this one! 
2 times in my life, I HAD to join a union if I wanted to accept the employer’s job offer. That in itself seems backwards….. but both experiences were a joke. My opinion of most, and I repeat, MOST unions still around today are interested in only one thing…. the union!
The first was the machinists union….110 is it? Long time ago…but they kept so many slugs employed by twisting the letter of the contract. Bad employees = bad cust service = bad reputation = going out of business blowout! And then, when a legitimate case for a contract benefit arrived, a good worker would still have to fight tooth and nail to get it! Hated it and was happy to leave.
The second, Local 292, would tell us times are good and we can’t justify any wage increases……just in time to see a decrease in economics and lower my purchasing power. Next contract? Okay…..we’ll get you some money this time, even if it kills your employer. The money was written in, contract passed, and 3 months later benefit dues increased. 3 months after the increase, they were increased again! The dues increases were higher than the pay raises contracted and again, everyone went backwards as inflation began to gain momentum. The steward, with 24yrs of service, got an extra paid day off for anyone with more than 20 yrs of service. Looking out for everyone? Bullllllogne! Wave a carrot and watch the donkeys walk.
When it’s time to negotiate salary, that’s always available if you can present your case. If it falls on deaf ears, shop around. If you’re really worth the extra, the competition will see it and scoop you up.
I left the 292 for a non-union offer that increased my current wage by 49%, 4 weeks paid vacation UP FRONT, and got all my health benefits for $30/mo less than my union dues, not to mention, as my old coworkers suffered 2 dues increases, I didn’t get any. Immediate 401k and an annual cash in my pocket profit share bonus check every December. Some of these bonuses were over $5k so they were always significant.
Point is this… if you’re worth it, there’s someone willing to pay it. Even with the grand new employer, things weren’t perfect….nothing on earth is, but instead of having 2 organizations telling me what I was going to do, at least I got back to just one.
Here’s my 2 cents on the topic. First off, I deal with the trade unions only. In college I worked in the trenches (literally) as a laborer. I got my college degree and went off to the ‘real world’. I was in the IT world and made great money but hated everyday of work. Eventually, I went back to what I really enjoyed…construction. To say I took a pay cut would be a gross understatement. I went back in the trenches (again literally) as a union laborer. I worked this job for a summer and then went to an office job with a union steel erector. I worked my way up to project management (and still stayed in the laborers union). I deal with ironworkers unions and operating engineers unions at least on a weekly basis. If we have either an ironworker or an operator who isn’t giving us 8 hours work for 8 hours of pay, they are let go…PERIOD. So to say that most union workers are lazy is a ridiculous statement. Are some lazy, sure they are. Are some non-unions workers lazy, absolutely. They all make a good wage and are skilled and safe enough that my company can still bid and get work over other non-union companies whose total employee wage package per hour is 40% less than mine. We built an industrial plant in last year, about half of the steel erection on the project was done union (by us) and the other half was done non-union. In this local the wage/benefit package for an ironworker was around $55.00/hr. I know for a fact that most of the non-union guys were making at most $20.00/hr because I personally talked to many of them. When the job was complete, our company made a more than fair profit and the employees made a fair wage. The wealth was more evenly split so to speak. I have no idea how much profit the non-union contractor on this job made but I was happy with the profit margin for our company and that’s all that matters. The fact that the employees earned an honest wage, where able to support their families, etc does matter to me. By the way, most of the non-union ironworkers would have ran for the cornfields if INS would have shown up. Does that matter to anyone? So for me does the union work…ABSOLUTELY. One final thing, the wage that is agreed upon is truly agreed upon by both the union and the company. There is nothing in the agreement that says I can’t pay a guy or gal more than the agreed upon wage, I just can’t pay them less. At least in the construction industry I believe that union is a very good thing. “Remember the weekend, brought to you by union labor”
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