Excuse me, I need to VENT!!

My wife and I built a house last year. Prior to construction, our builder asked our future neighbor (Marv) if we could put the dirt pile partially on his lot (empty) because we didn’t have enough room. He said we could, just put it back the way it was. Over the course of the next 5 months, I told Marv we appreciated using the part of the lot. I would try to get the grade back and I would seed and water it to make it presentable.

Fast forward 12 months. We were unable to get the sprinklers, landscaping, and sod completed last fall, so we were going to do it as soon in the spring as possible. The landscape guy (Brad) was going to come at the beginning of last week. (There were delays due to rain, snow, etc.)

I called Marv Sunday night to see if he could stop by so we (Marv, Brad, and I) could figure out what needed to be done to the grading of the lot. Marv said he was busy and couldn’t. After discussing it a little longer, he said he would stop at noon on Monday. Marv didn’t show up. We dug up a photo of our lot, pre-construction, that had a partial view of Marv’s lot and showed it to Brad. Brad tried to grade the lot and make a nice smooth transition to Marv’s lot on Wednesday.

That evening, Marv stopped and began yelling at my wife that it wasn’t right. It needed to be lower. I got home minutes after he left. I called Marv to see if he could come back so we could figure out what was wrong. He said he was tired and on his way home. After a discussion, Marv said there should be an “even slop” from the top lot pin to the curb.

Friday Marv dug a hole approx 18″ deep in the center of the lot line and said that was how far we needed to take it down. Brad stopped by on Saturday to see the new “requirement” and Marv happened to be there. He said, “This is the way it’s going to be, Jason! It’s coming down to the bottom of this hole.” I told him fine, and told Brad to re-grade to the bottom of the hole.

Monday morning, Brad re-graded to within a 1/4″ of the bottom of the hole. Then re worked the transition on my lot. Marv showed up at noon with a tractor and loader. He said he was going to dig it down to where it needed to be. I told him if he dug up the dirt work, I was done fixing his lot. Marv dug a 5-6 foot wide trench along the lot line approx 15 inches deep.

Brad came back at 5 to fix my lot so the sprinklers and sod could be finished. Now Marv wants me to remove the rest of the dirt he says needs to be taken out. If I don’t he is going to have it done and billed to me. He’ll sue me and my builder if I don’t pay the bill.

Any suggestions? Do I take out the dirt to keep the peace and pay for it at my rate? Do I let him sue me and chance having to pay to have it done at his sure to be “inflated” rate? Do I pay somebody to do the work and then sue him for the additional costs of doing the dirtwork 3 times rather than just once?

Thanks, I had to get that off my chest.

JD

Leave a horse head in his bed.

Get Marv a girlfriend, he seems a bit pent up.

Hopefully you have documented everything with dates. If not, try to get that done so if the courts get involved, you will be on a better standing.

I thought that this kind of post would be deleted. Seeing it is not I suggest you teach the guy a lesson. If he wanted to shout at some one your wife is not where he should start. After he “understands” that part due to your most correcting advise, you must choose how much money you want to spend on an attorney to teach this guy a lesson which could be done by other means. Be careful not to do something that may cause you to defend yourself in criminal court. Remember attorneys are the only winners in any case civil or criminal. If you have done your best to correct things then you have done all you can. You can’t keep peace in the neighborhood by appeasing an unreasonable person.

Have you tried hitting him?

Tell Marv to have a Coke and a smile

Being this is a neighbor, and your going to have to live next to him, I would do my best to smooth things out with out getting the courts involved. Perhaps there is someone in the area that is looking for FREE clean fill.
Good Luck

you know what they say, you can choose your friends, but you can’t choose your neighbors. That’s what sucks out of this is you might have tension in the neighborhood over this, which is a bummer. I got a drunk loudmouth behind me who I have not had any interaction with, but he makes our neighborhood a little less pleasant. The good news is I think he is selling.

How was your relationship before this? Doesn’t sound like much other than he was willing to let you do this.

I don’t know what a yard of black dirt goes for there but here, I just paid $25 a yard. It could help recover some of the landscaping costs.

Supposedly, he does have a girlfriend now. You’re not the first person to suggest that.

I already “advised” him on yelling at my wife and calling my kids “f@#ki$% kids.” Told him he crossed the line and he better not ever do that again.

As far as hitting him, I was close yesterday. He wouldn’t swing first.

I’ve sat down yesterday to document the series of events to the best of my recollection.

Many, many people have had run-ins with Marv over the years. I’ve always gotten along with him…or at least I didn’t “not get along.”

I figure I’m going to end up moving the dirt for him. In the end, it will probably be the least expensive alternative for me.

JD

–Dirty deeds done dirt cheap.– Post your addy and to which side across the street said individual lives.
HA HA HA

Document as best you can. The good news is that the burden is on Marv to prove wrong-going. The bad news is, any decision by a court relies a lot on the particular person judging the case. I am assuming nothing was written & signed between the two of you up front. And do be careful about paying him. He could try to use that later as evidence you admitted you were in the wrong and still try to sue you. If you do pay him, have him sign something stating this is the end of the matter.

I got a short fuse so I woulda ended up socking the guy

Simply put, Marv needs to take his medication!!!!

Its to bad Marv is the way he is. Look threw old photos and see if you can find any with his lot in it. Without having surveyed the land for grade prior to dumping the dirt it will be hard for eather party to show how it was. If the cost is worth it I’d try to fix it the way he wants. It sounds to me that Marv is one no matter how hard you try you will never make him happy. The bright side to it is that if it went to court with the matter the burden of proof of damage is in Marvs lap. If he told you to take the land down another 18 inches and you had witnesses to that and thats what you did it will make it harder on Marv to show you didn’t restore it to the orginal condition. It sound like a no win situation for you no matter what the out come. I’m sure if you look around you may find some photes some where that will show the grade prior to the dirt being placed on the land. Sometimes you can check with your city or county who my beable to help you with this problem.

Do what you can to calm him down.. Like it was said, you have to live next to this guy. I would say fix it to his liking and never speak to him again. Anyone who disrespects my wife and kids won’t ever get another look. Get it done, it’s not fun but then you are done with him! I would get his verbal okay and flat out tell him, this is done and I don’t ever want to speak to you again. It sounds like this is past the point of repair just try not to make it worse..

Asking the neighbor to use his property was a mistake as your now finding out, hindsight. The pile of dirt has been there for at least a year to 17 months?? If that’s the case one can understand his frustration, that’s a long time to have your neighbors dirt piled on your lot. Get the grade EXACTLY how he wants it, pay the bill and move on. It will save alot of future animosity between you, your neighbors. He let you use his lot, sounds like it took way to long, now he wants his yard back and done right. Even if “done right” is a little more work than what it was prior.

The way I see this one side of the story, your neighbor helped you out and allowed you to do something that should have not been asked of him. Time for you to go the extra mile like he did and get it fixed to his satisfaction. You pay the bill, it’s only right…your neighbor should be out NOTHING. Sounds like a few things got lost in translation, that’s the builders and your bad, not the neighbor.

BIRDDOG

For starters, you should have a master grading plan. This would state the elevation of your lot upon completed landscaping. You should also have a Plat with topo information documenting the begining elevation of the lot prior to construction. Every home I ever built was over shot with topos extending into the neighboring lots. This would give you all the documentation you need. Trucking dirt is very expensive. Sounds like he’s trying to stick you with the cost of trucking for his excavation

The good thing is that it sounds like Marv still has to build his house. So hopefully he will mess something up of yours and you can be the jerk then and pay him back.

Birddog,

Well, actually, this is what I was looking for. Trying to find out if I’m being the a$$. Just to clarify, the majority of dirt was taken out last July…3-4 months after we dug. The regrading and seeding were the only things not done last year. Keep in mind, this is an empty lot with basically weeds in it. I intended to seed the disrupted area to make it better than I found it.

I talked to Marv last fall when I found out that the sprinklers and sod would not be installed until the spring. I asked if it was ok, and I would try to get the work done as soon as possible in the spring. The dirtwork was delayed this spring due to a wet spring, then snow, then more rain.

I’ve graded the dirt 2 times trying to accomodate him and then a 3rd time after he destroyed the work again. I’ll probably end up trying to grade it again, just so it’s done and over with. As you said, I shouldn’t have asked in the first place.

JD

Do you have anything that shows the grade before you piled he dirt on Marv’s land? If all you did was put a pile of dirt on his land and then removed it thats all that needs to be done. Sounds like he’s making you change the grade of his lot.

Privacy fence ??

Unfortunately, I do not have anything showing the elevation. The only thing I have is a picture that somewhat overlooks his property…admittedly not a good angle at all. That is the reason I called him before we even started with the landscaping. I wanted to know what he wanted done. The only thing he would say was “Back the way it was” to which I responded later in the week, I’m trying, but I obviously don’t know how it was.

The first description of the way it was was on Saturday and we did it. Unfortunately, he doesn’t believe us or he changed his mind…I really don’t know.

This is an unimproved lot. Other than a row of evergreens on the far side, I don’t know that anything has ever been done. There are holes, bumps, weeds, etc. Honestly, I was trying to leave it better than I found it. That is the way I was brought up.

JD

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For starters, you should have a master grading plan. This would state the elevation of your lot upon completed landscaping. You should also have a Plat with topo information documenting the begining elevation of the lot prior to construction. Every home I ever built was over shot with topos extending into the neighboring lots. This would give you all the documentation you need. Trucking dirt is very expensive. Sounds like he’s trying to stick you with the cost of trucking for his excavation

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Exactly.

Beyond that with out knowing how you contracted your house out, to me it sounds like it is more a builders issue. The builder was the one that piled it there and should have known better and should have asked himself, IMO. He is responsible for grading etc. of your properrty and protecting the adjacent properties.

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For starters, you should have a master grading plan. This would state the elevation of your lot upon completed landscaping. You should also have a Plat with topo information documenting the begining elevation of the lot prior to construction. Every home I ever built was over shot with topos extending into the neighboring lots. This would give you all the documentation you need. Trucking dirt is very expensive. Sounds like he’s trying to stick you with the cost of trucking for his excavation

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Just out of curiosity, how exact are these master elevation plans?

I personally don’t feel it is my builder’s fault. If so, I’ll gladly remove the dirt.

As I said above, I’ll remove the dirt anyway. Just not gladly anymore. I would have removed it from the beginning if he would have told me what he wanted and wasn’t so difficult to work with.

Thanks everyone for letting me vent my frustrations.

JD

This is way too much, for a pile of dirt. I am assuming it is from the basement hole ??? Grade his the way he wants, then landscape yours, so you have a nice little pond next door at Marvs…

big G

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This is way too much, for a pile of dirt. I am assuming it is from the basement hole ??? Grade his the way he wants, then landscape yours, so you have a nice little pond next door at Marvs…

With a dock and a leech bucket tied to it?

big G

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Sure it sounds like he is being a jerk, but before I jumped on the blast wagon I was simply mediating a bit…I just wonder how I would feel if I let my neighbor use my lot, take an extended period of time and I know the lot isn’t how it was? If no one is sure of the previous grade and it was never shot…unfortunately, if anyone knows what the grade was it’s probably crabby Marve. Now he may be going beyond what needs to be done, maybe. You or the builder used it, he’s not happy with the repair and says it’s not how the existing grade laid out, in court he’d probably win.

Like I mentioned earlier, Marve should be stuck with zero out of pocket from this. It doesn’t matter if it’s a lot full of weeds, it’s still someones property that should have never been used to start. I know most of would like to have faith in our neighbors always being kind and “rolling with the punches”, well…your seeing the other side of that.

This is what I’d do… Keep the peace the best you can, get it to his satisfaction and move on. The cost to truck it out and grade it one final time, make sure he’s there and satisfied, will be less than having to take off work and probably losing in court. And it might salvage things to at least be civil between everyone, you have to see each other often enough. Go to court and you’ll bitter enemies for good…do you want to live with that for years to come. I guess I’m just trying to be a voice of reason in saying set your pride aside, it’ll be easier and cheaper to keep it out of court.

Good luck.

BIRDDOG

Sorry to hear you are moving in next door to such a wonderful neighbor. Sounds like years of fun to come with that guy. Does Marv have deep pockets? If not call his bluff and build a big privacy fence.

Birddog,

I agree he should have no out of pocket. It’s very frustrating that I’ve had to do exactly what I was trying to prevent…doing the work multiple times.

I tried to get him to tell me what he wanted and he didn’t, so I tried to get it back using a “bad picture.” That’s all I had to go by. Then I had the work re-done doing what he said he wanted. It’s still not good enough. I just don’t want to have to keep doing this. At what point do you get to “enough is enough?”

JD

Sounds like you are prepared to suck up the expenses and do the project. I agree with BD that you do not want to go to court. Here is how I would approach it.

Have Marv walk through his lot and provide grades, I would have stakes ready, and mark each change in elevation as he sees it. If you have to, get your contractor there with a transit and have them shoot elevations from a benchmark (Fire Hydrant top works great, but a curb, or another non-moveable object will work). Make sure you both have information on what you are doing, which type of soils (black dirt, organic materials, sand, etc) he feels are his, and what the outcome will be.

I would also make sure he agrees, and even signs a document saying that you have brought his property up to “like new” condition, before your contractor leaves. If something is not right (in his eyes) fix it immediately.

If he feels his site is high, then it is. Forget about right and wrong, and do what you can do to mitigate the situation. An angry neighbor can do any number of things to make your life miserable. Take out your pride, set if on the shelf, and Thank Marv for his patience and understanding in this difficult situation, and let him know your commitment to making it right. When you are done, shake his hand and tell him how much you look forward to living next to him. Go in the house, get your pride and 16 beers and forget everything you just told him.

Sorry you are having these issues. I bet Marv is problably over at some other website complaining about this crazy guy who put dirt on his lot, and then screwed everything up 3 different times .