Chrysler files for Bankrupcy

My oh my it sure is easy to be a union basher when the auto industry has problems but lets not forget the “executive compensation” that was handed out during the good years to the non union upper management, but thats totally different because they earned it. If it werent for unions early on this country might not be where it is today, for those of you who think they are bad talk to some oldtimers who used to work in a packinghouse, car plant, weyerhouse, or any other union job and see what think of the union, granted some of the things they do dont make alot of sense but without them we might not have some of the luxuries we have today.

Scare — I wouldn’t say they are bad and I don’t get that message here, I think they definitly were needed and served the purpose when govt and laws didn’t protect workers, it’s just simply priorities getting out of wack…no different then the executive golden parchutes that have been handed out and their yearly compensations…it’s a nasty double edged sword that hopefully can find a steady balance once again…..

Very interesting stuff here guys. Seems funny that nobody on the site has mentioned that it’s your RIGHT as an american to join, form, or assist in forming a union in your workplace, section 7 of the NLRA. Bottom line is joining a union is YOUR choice and I don’t think anyone on this site has the ability to take my section 7 rights away, though we are all allowed to our opinion. I am one of those union reps, thats how I make my living. Running a labor organization is not a cake walk, and just like any business we have had our ups and downs. One thing that really bothers me is when people generalize UNIONS as a whole. Some organizations are well run and others are not, just like in the free market, unions that manage themselves properly succeed if notthey end up going out of business. In todays market my guys have to be productive and my contractors need to succeed by making a profit, we have to work together with our contractors to increase our marketshare yet still remain competitive in the workplace. We believe in training,community service and giving our contractors an honest days work for an honest days pay. In the construction industry workers doen’t live to be 106 years old, we provide pension, retirement and health plans for our members and their spouses so they can be taken care of when their body won’t allow them to work any more.

Before you go throwing away unions, remember you are throwing your rights away as an american, whats next the 2nd ammendment? If you choose to NOT to be represented by a union thats fine, thats YOUR choice and I respect that. On the same note if someone chooses to be represented by a union thats THEIR CHOICE and YOU should respect that. I pesonally see workers banding together to improve their wages, benefits, and working conditions a positive thing, and it’s my right as an american! If unions didn’t exist in todays market we would all suffer, unions that don’t address todays issues a don’t remain competitve in the workplace and continue to grow their maketshare will experience difficulty. SO QUIT TRYING TO TAKE AWAY MY SECTION 7 RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN.

I don’t think anyone here is trying to take away your rights as an American, they’re here with an opinion…..just like you are. It just seems that there are more that disagree with you than agree. And that is just “my” opinion.

Here in Wisconsin the Teachers Union lobbied for and was successful in a State Law that guarantees a 3.8% raise before the negotiations even start. In some years that is more than the cost of living raise on SS. Everybody out there that has a law giving them a 3.8 every year raise your hand. I worked a job for 35 years that by law I could not go on strike. I survived. NOW back to fishing. Where are the white bass jumping in the boat near Everts? Remember we are all nice people here.

I was a union member 26 years. At the beginning they raised our standard of living immensely. They enabled minimum wage dads to finally make a living wage. Over the years I felt that they stopped working for us and felt that we were working for them instead. At the end of my career there I was thrilled when I left to not have to pay union dues to an unappreciative union. Sooo.. I’m not against them, I think in many cases they are needed, but at times I think they forget what their purpose is, at least in my case.

The 3.8% is the total package teachers get. It includes salary, health insurance etc. If their insurance goes up 3.8% they get no salary increase. If it goes up more than 3.8% they could actually take a cut in pay. I don’t think the teachers from Wisconsin are getting too rich.

So, tell which federal law or state law helps a person who has put in 25 years for a company, but the company lets him go instead of the person who has been there just over a year. This is a non-union company. I worked there and left. I just talked today to my old supervisor. He told me how they was cutting back. Maybe he can contact the Gov. or State to help him keep his job !!!!!!!!

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So, tell which federal law or state law helps a person who has put in 25 years for a company, but the company lets him go instead of the person who has been there just over a year.

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So, you are saying that these two people hold the exact same position/title? And the person whom was there for 25 years was able to successfully perform his/her duties?

If that is the case? Can’t answer.

But what I really want to know is why do all the goverment employess (those whom receive their wages one-way or another through our tax dollars, have to have a union? Teachers, cops, firemen, public works, office employees, etc, etc, etc.
Why do they all have unions if they are getting paid via tax dollars? I don’t understand that.

I’m not anti union. There was a day that the unions did form America to what it is today. What I’m saying is this: There is a time/place for unions. 10 years ago, a “beating heart” was able to get any job they wanted. Wages were very high straight across the board. No need for unions, because the employee was able to “call the game”. Today, unemployment is 8 to 8.5% with predictions of increasing to 10%. Wages are dropping, straight across the board, companies (public and private) are going broke by the minute, lay-offs are happening by the second. What is a union going to do to fix that or make it better? THAT is what I don’t understand.

So, what gaurantee to you have when you give 25 years or more of hard work to a company. You are close to retirement and the company lets you go. You lose you pension and benifits. What would you do, especially now that 401k’s took a big hit?

So should every worker in the whole country have a “guarantee” to pensions and health insurance for life ??? God help us all if that is the direction we go. It is illegal to get rid of somebody because of age already.

big G

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So, what gaurantee to you have when you give 25 years or more of hard work to a company. You are close to retirement and the company lets you go. You lose you pension and benifits. What would you do, especially now that 401k’s took a big hit?

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There are no guarantees in life, other than death and taxation.

To lighten the mood I’ll add Tommy Callahan’s idea of a guarantee. Anyone else like this scene?

Tommy: Let’s think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I’m listening.

Tommy: Here’s the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box ’cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: ‘Course it does. Why shouldn’t it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing too]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What’s your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn’t a crazy glue sniffer? “Building model airplanes” says the little fairy; well, we’re not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that’s all it takes. The next thing you know, there’s money missing off the dresser, and your daughter’s knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of $#!*. That’s all it is, isn’t it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer’s sake, for your daughter’s sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I’ll buy from you.

Tommy: Well, that’s…

Tommy, Richard Hayden: …What?

What I see with all the union/non-union talk is that it creates an “Us vs. Them” mentality within a buisness. No one wins when everyone is fighting against each other. I’ve seen it and lived it for over 30 years.

Fed Ex, Non-Union…Very successful, good wages.
UPS, Union…Very successful, good wages.

Good point Chris. I would have to see a UPS contract, to see the legacy costs associated with it… UAW workers from 35+ years ago are still on the payroll. The Big 3 at one time were successful also, it’s after these costs, that were not forseen, such as health insurance costs going through the roof, that is crippling them now. Look at it this way, when Toyota builds a car, they know “exactly” minus any warranty work, how much money they have made on this car. There are no costs associated with it going forward, it is not dependent on how much health insurance costs go up in the future, or how long their employees may live. This is not all the unions fault, but how about some share of responsibility ? I guess they are getting/taking that, they have a “share” of the company !!!

big G

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So my question is this, why do we need unions in today’s world?? I think they should be commended for what they provided back when they were first created. Our country needed them at one point!!

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Kooty, I couldn’t agree more. If you want to make more and have a secure future? earn it, go to school and work hard. Not that union workers don’t work hard that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying no one should get guaranteed anything. Guarantees put us in this situation.

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So, tell which federal law or state law helps a person who has put in 25 years for a company, but the company lets him go instead of the person who has been there just over a year. This is a non-union company. I worked there and left. I just talked today to my old supervisor. He told me how they was cutting back. Maybe he can contact the Gov. or State to help him keep his job !!!!!!!!

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In a union company they would of just let 2 or 3 other people go to make up for the wage of that 1 25 year employee. I’m not sure about your math but to me 1 unemployed person would be better for the country than 3. Keep in mind also that in SOME unions they would have keep that 25 year employee even if he was the least productive employee in the business.. Just my .02 worth again.

I am a union member, but agree with others there are good and bad parts to a union. I would prefer to have some kind of representation such as a union while working for a large faceless corporation. Some companies are still making money right now, but claim the unions are causing them to have decreased earnings. Is it really the union or it could be ridiculous management compensation or maybe even the effect of the economy? The cost of labor is high right now in relation to earnings, but companies need to plan for that. The economy is going to have ups and downs. Earnings are not going to be the same every year.
I blame a lot of the auto industries woes on not adapting to the economic times and trends. For the last 4 or 5 years gas prices have been increasing, but companies were still mass producing gas guslers. Gas went up to 4 bucks a barrell. Did the car companies all adapt? I think the writing was on the wall years ago that they needed to make changes. Luckily gas prices are low now instead being artificially inflated as they were last year.

Wasn’t it Jimmy Hoffa who said “what’s good for the union is good for the country”

BTW, Jimmy is currently secretly working with the United States government teaching economics.

Union thinking: I should be rewarded (higher pay, job security) for my service to the company

Non-union thinking: I should be rewarded because I am better at my job that anyone else and I should be paid for my productivity.

I chuckle it when people say, “well, they laid me off because I was making more than the younger guys”. Well, why should you get paid more to do the same job that someone else can do and will do for less. I have 10 years at my current job, but I make sure that I learn more and get better each year. My years of experience more than pay for my increased salary, because I am returning more to my employer.

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Union thinking: I should be rewarded (higher pay, job security) for my service to the company

Non-union thinking: I should be rewarded because I am better at my job that anyone else and I should be paid for my productivity.

I chuckle it when people say, “well, they laid me off because I was making more than the younger guys”. Well, why should you get paid more to do the same job that someone else can do and will do for less. I have 10 years at my current job, but I make sure that I learn more and get better each year. My years of experience more than pay for my increased salary, because I am returning more to my employer.

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Dave be very careful with that approach. I have found that employee’s who try and do the best thing for their employers tend to stay employed the longest.