I’ll Admit it I was Wrong we are all SCREWED!

  • jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #1261875

    I voted for the Outdoors Amendment. I now see that was wrong. Very wrong. I was lied to and feel screwed over. You should too. In a nut shell, the state sees the new money flowing to the DNR as an overage and basically reduces the existing funding. End result. Dedicated funding flowing into the general account like any other tax. Right now I am furious!!! Words can’t describe how I feel. Just the fact that they are even considering this shell game has me

    DAMIT !!!!!

    Pawlenty – Read your new mail!!!

    ===========================================================

    Extra money for outdoors, arts may be budget casualty

    ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) – A change in Minnesota’s Constitution will soon mean up to $300 million in new money annually for conservation, water quality, parks and arts programs – and that’s on top of what those programs already receive from the state budget. Or is it?

    With lawmakers trying to address a $4.8 billion budget deficit, the groups that fought for last year’s amendment are reminding them of a stern provision in the new law: The new money must not simply substitute for traditional sources of funding.

    But what that means depends on whom you ask.

    Conservation and arts groups say Gov. Tim Pawlenty’s budget proposes cuts to those programs that are disproportionately harsh and don’t abide by the wording in the amendment.

    Pawlenty’s response: Outdoors and the arts will get more money than they’ve ever had, and during a budget crisis job-creating programs get priority. Pawlenty doesn’t interpret the amendment to mean funding can never be reduced in those programs, spokesman Brian McClung said.

    It will take years to know the true effect the amendment will have on the state budget for everything from water quality testing to boards that grant money to arts and cultural organizations. Still, groups here and across the country are watching Minnesota’s every move.

    “It is a bellwether for just how are lawmakers and governors going to react in these tough economic times in terms of these conservation programs,” said Russ Shay, director of public policy at the Washington, D.C.-based Land Trust Alliance, a national organization that celebrated when Minnesota voters approved the measure.

    The amendment gives the outdoors a third of the new sales tax money, and another third goes to a clean water fund. Parks and trails will get a little more than 14 percent, with the rest going to arts and cultural programs.

    Pawlenty’s budget would cut the Department of Natural Resources and the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency more than some agencies, like Administration and Agriculture, and even boost funding for Public Safety and Veterans Affairs.

    McClung said agencies like the DNR need less general fund money because they collect money from licenses and other sources.

    But advocates said the overall budget share for conservation programs would shrink from about 1.2 percent to just under 1 percent in Pawlenty’s budget.

    “That is a historical low,” said Paul Aasen, advocacy director at the Minnesota Center for Environmental Advocacy.

    In other states, ballot measures have often created dedicated funding sources that end up replacing the general fund conservation money, which can shrink or disappear when state or local officials scramble to fund schools and public safety in bad economic times, according to a group that tracks such measures.

    It’s uncommon for ballot measures on conservation to supplement regular government funding, and it shows how dedicated Minnesota is to preserving the outdoors, said Matthew Zieper, national research director for the Trust for the Public Land, a land conservation group.

    In Missouri, where a conservation sales tax has been in effect since 1977, the state Department of Conservation gets about 60 percent of its funding from the sales tax. Federal money and funds from fishing and hunting licenses pay for the rest. In the 1980s, a second sales tax was added to pay for state parks and soil conservation.

    Dave Murphy, executive director of the Conservation Federation of Missouri, said that before the sales tax, the conservation department relied only on fees and federal funds and never on general state money. He called Minnesota’s constitutional amendment a “bold initiative,” but he said he won’t be surprised if regular funding for the outdoors eventually dries up in Minnesota.

    “My guess is that general revenue appropriations will go away. I’d be astonished if it would be possible to go on with continued

    appropriations,” Murphy said.

    Sen. Ellen Anderson, a Democrat from St. Paul, acknowledged that figuring out the meaning of “traditional funding sources” will be difficult. But she said she’ll be watching any cuts carefully to make sure lawmakers are following the amendment’s intent.

    “We can’t use this money as an excuse to cut budgets,” said Anderson, who heads the Senate’s finance committee for the environment.

    Sen. Tom Bakk, a Democrat from Cook who opposed the amendment, said he’s concerned Minnesota has opened the door to other groups who might try to use the Constitution to get their own dedicated funding sources. “Why wouldn’t they? Every interest group has got their little piece of the budget they want to protect,” he said.

    When Minnesota’s final budget comes out later this year, people may not take issue with cuts to conservation when things like health care and local government aid are being cut, too. But if conservation advocates challenge the funding allocations, they’ll use last November’s election to make their case.

    “Citizens in Minnesota clearly voted to add money to these programs,” Aasen said.

    (Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

    hairjig
    Cudahy, Wis.
    Posts: 937
    #754277

    STRING ALL THE SOB”S UP !!!!!! HANG EM” HIGH

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2582
    #754279

    I can’t believe anyone expected a different result!

    Dedicated funding has no place in government in my opinion (even if I wholly support the underlying cause).

    ottomatica
    Lino Lakes, MN
    Posts: 1380
    #754285

    Yeah, but I thought it would take a little longer and that they would just do it outright…

    llong
    Posts: 197
    #754293

    I knew this one was coming!! That’s why I voted no. They talked it up like it was going to be the greatest thing ever, and look what they do. I’m pissed to but seen it coming. just my 2 cents

    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #754294

    Yes,thanks everybody who voted for it. More money out of our pockets to be wasted. People, we are one of the highest taxed states. Stop thinking it is a good idea to add another.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #754299

    Don’t worry…it sunsets in 25 years.

    MFO
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts: 1451
    #754304

    They always seem to be patting you on the back and picking your pocket at the same time.

    uffdapete
    Rainy Lake, MN
    Posts: 394
    #754316

    Yep we were sold another bill of goods. Does this happen because they know sportsmen and sportswomen are passionate about their thing and consequently vulnerable?

    Maybe it’s time to contact our elected officials and demand accountability. Maybe we ought include in that accountability where lottery money was supposed to go also. For that to happen, members of lots of outdoor groups are going to have to put aside differences and together demand better through emails, calls, letters, etc.

    I work seasonally for the DNR and at this point that might have to be reworded to past tense. Why? Because the DNR has never been in worse shape financially. License sales have been declining for years. Elected officials don’t know what the Outdoor Amendment money is for either because they are wanting to reduce funding to the DNR because of all this “new” money they think the DNR is receiving.

    Yea I remember the whole “wasted money on that conference” thing. The difference between that wasted money and all the other waste is they got caught – maybe because the DNR is more visible and therefore under greater scrutiny? I have worked for the gov’t at county, state and federal levels and imo the DNR is one of the more efficient agencies. Obviously that could be up for debate but that’s what I saw and experienced.

    We should all be infuriated about this latest scam – enough to organize and communicate until they get it right.

    Many of our founding fathers came here because of taxation without representation. Imagine if they could see taxation with representation.

    Prestige
    Elgin, MN
    Posts: 245
    #754320

    I was just at a TU meeting and they were talking about their presentation to get some of that money. Even though I regret voting for it, I hope that now it is passed that some of it will go where it should.

    deertracker
    Posts: 9253
    #754324

    Geez Jon, first you post a message about dogs that is not true, and now this. What is the world coming to?!
    DT

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #754329

    Jon
    Welcome back to the core beliefs of conservative values.
    Because you’ve held them and proved them (as have I), you will always return to rely upon them.

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #754380

    Quite honestly, I am a bit amused that anybody is surprised this is happening. Nobody learned anything from the lottery monies stated purpose and actuality?? Shame on anyone for being even a little surprised. In a few years, somebody in a suit and tie that never had to work for a days pay will dream up another cash cow, spin a yarn around that idea to play on the heartstrings of a group of people, and get that idea passed…….then afterwards, turn around and use the $$ any damn way they feel like….and most everybody will be all surprised again(I won’t)!

    This is one of the rare times I can say……..I voted no and I was right.

    Tim

    perch_44
    One step ahead of the Warden.
    Posts: 1589
    #754394

    i told all of you this was bad and that it would replace general funding. everyone swore up and down that it wouldn’t…

    who’s the idiot now?….

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13661
    #754400

    Those are MN politics, so I’ll try to keep my nose on this side of the river. Here in WI, we have a guy they call Doyle (along with many other adjectives). He managed to do nearly the exact same thing here. Funding within our DNR has become a black hole to filter funds to “other” departments with short-falls. I hope some how, things turn for the better for your sportsmen.

    koldfront kraig
    Coon Rapids mn
    Posts: 1818
    #754405

    Lets all take a wonderful, big bite of the crap sandwich that the majority voted for!

    Their is plenty for everyone!

    A tax increase that’s a constitutional amendment… to many loopholes in the system and to many slimy politicians willing to exploit them.

    Its time to push for term limits people!!

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18719
    #754447

    Your on a roll Jon..

    das_bass
    Mound, MN
    Posts: 332
    #754461

    I am suprised anyone is suprised by this. It was pretty obvious from the start (at least to me) that this was going to happen.

    Josh Runksmeier
    Pequot Lakes, MN
    Posts: 279
    #754466

    I voted no and it sounds like they (in a nut shell) Will use the money some where else if need be? Am I right or am I missing some thing?

    Pig-hunter
    Southern Minnesota
    Posts: 600
    #754469

    NEVER vote for a new tax. Just don’t do it guys. It never is what it is supposed to be. Instead of us giving more, how about they take what we have and spend it wisely? That is my stance and will be forever.

    DaveB
    Inver Grove Heights MN
    Posts: 4499
    #754484

    Plenty of us knew better.

    Post

    ranger520
    Posts: 32
    #754492

    Now, Now Folks, Settle down. What we all really need is another light rail line. Can I pull my bass boat with that???

    perch_44
    One step ahead of the Warden.
    Posts: 1589
    #754505

    Quote:


    Now, Now Folks, Settle down. What we all really need is another light rail line. Can I pull my bass boat with that???


    Joel Nelson
    Moderator
    Southeast MN
    Posts: 3137
    #754525

    I’m sure I’ll be roasted alive for my opinions on this, but doesn’t anyone else see the irony?

    Here we have a conservative governor who DID NOT support the amendment, unsurprisingly, cutting the general and other funding avenues of the DNR. Yet, somehow he’s not responsible for his own actions, and it’s the fault of the folks who voted for it in the first place? Then we get the rank-and-file rants from the taxpayers leaguer’s like they were read from a cue-card. How can you not call this retaliation?

    What people are failing to understand in this situation is that the very conservative, fiscally and otherwise, values being propagated, are the ones being undermined by another conservative.

    I don’t care who you vote for either, conservative and liberal aren’t dirty words for me. This isn’t a Republican or Democrat issue.

    The Missouri model has been a resounding success. For those of you who’ve had the joy of hunting or fishing in that state, I think you’d agree with me. They’re consistently ranked in the top 5 states in the nation based on user satisfaction of everything from state parks to WMA’s. This type of funding exists in a good number of other states as well.

    Just because our politicians are attempting to monkeybuttize it, doesn’t mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. It simply means we need new politicians.

    Start writing letters, or better yet, make a phone call. Get into a good argument with the 18 year old staffer that’s manning the phone lines. Don’t allow them to read from their scripts like they will. Make them uncomfortable, and above all, make them promise as part of their civic duty and employment responsibility, to communicate your concerns directly to the elected official you’re trying to contact.

    Joel

    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #754551

    Good points. Sorry to keep harping on this but Minnesota is one of the highest total taxed states. Missouri is in the bottom 10. So it sounds to me that Missouri is able to do so much more while bringing in so much less money. Missouri could decide to add another sales tax and they still would be taxed much less taxed than us here in Minnesota. How do these other states get by bringing in less money but Minnesota always seems like they need a new tax? Sounds like maybe the State of Minnesota likes to waste a lot of money. The solution is/was not to have another tax. They already get plenty of money.

    I’m all for making the outdoors better, but it shouldn’t be more of a tax burden to its residents who are already kind of in the position.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #754567

    Every single tax paying citizen in Minnesota should be outraged! You, as a self respecting tax payer in this state must send your objections. It doesn’t matter if you supported the amendment or not. You are now paying this tax. The fact they are stealing the money is wrong. Here is how to contact your legislators and the Governor:

    http://www.gis.leg.mn/mapserver/districts/

    On the above link, simply type in your Home address and it will list your state reps.

    http://www.governor.state.mn.us/contacts/index.htm

    The above link has direct links to the Governor’s office.

    In your message you must start out with your Real Name, Address, and phone number.

    Be polite but stern in your objections. But tell them how you really feel. Insist on a prompt reply. If you don’t get one in 24 hours, re-send the message. Keep at it until you know your message has been read and understood.

    -J.

    Joel Nelson
    Moderator
    Southeast MN
    Posts: 3137
    #754568

    Jon:

    Thanks for doing your homework and providing these links!!!

    Joel

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #754573

    Yawn……..

    I personally allotted for some of the 25 Billion to be re-directed, stolen or whatever adjective you want want to use. I didn’t think that was to hard to figure out.

    Being a supporter of the amendment my thinking was and is if just a mere 12 BILLION were used for things outdoor related it was a win/win.

    I’ll add its great you guys are on top of this even before they start collecting the Tax from us….

    Carry on!

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #754574

    Quote:


    Being a supporter of the amendment my thinking was and is if just a mere 12 BILLION were used for things outdoor related it was a win/win.


    How do or would you feel if none of the money went to the DNR or outdoor projects?

    -J.

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #754576

    Quote:


    Being a supporter of the amendment my thinking was and is if just a mere 12 BILLION were used for things outdoor related it was a win/win.


    Wow, with thinking like that no wonder our taxes are so high! How about we get what we pay for, for once.

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