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And as for the VA Tech shootings, what are your thoughts on a bill that would require all public institutions (schools, libraries, courthouses) to have have metal detectors and armed security at all entrances?
Those shooting would never have happened if the students and teachers were armed.
-J.
Why is everyone jumping down my throat?
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Why is everyone jumping down my throat?
I for one am not the least bit heated… I honestly hope to learn something from this exchange. I find it very interesting the a group of people with similar backgrounds with very similar interests and lifestyles can have such far ranging opinions on such matters.
As I said in my last post. I very much respect you and your opinions on this subject.
jwitt4,
They aren’t, they’re just having a civilized discussion with you and don’t agree with you.
I think you’re doing a good job for yourself and conducting yourself well, I just don’t agree with you.
Whose business is it to know if you paid your boat registration? Who cares? Why pay it?
I have a couple of opinions on the why’s of the gun law, neither of which have I researched but are mainly opinion.
1) Obviously, the fines/fees for classes/registration will be a source of revenue for a government scrambling for money.
2) The aim is, in my opinion, to take the guns out of the hands of fellons by making illegal pawn sales, guns shows, etc where anyone with a wad of money can go in and buy a gun. Will that stop guns from going to a fellon? Maybe not, but if the easiest source for guns is eliminated the odds are better.
3) Making sure that all guns are secured safely is similar, in a way, to having your home inspected before you sell it. Faulty electrical can cause a fire, and if my kid is at your house and you have a gun in the drawer of your night table and they shoot YOUR kid accidentally, whose to blame? My kid for pulling the trigger or you for not having your gun in a safe place?
I have to go to earn a living, as you can see I have been at this for all day. I will revisit later tonight.
I dont think you will find many to agree with you on a fishing/hunting site.That doesnt mean they are jumping down your throat.They just have a different opinion.
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And as for the VA Tech shootings, what are your thoughts on a bill that would require all public institutions (schools, libraries, courthouses) to have have metal detectors and armed security at all entrances? I would give up the freedom of another to carry a gun to a lecture hall if it meant my child wouldn’t be shot.
Where I went to college, there were 25 buildings, all with 6-10 entryways. Doing simple math, with each building having 8 entrys, 2 shifts a day, at $50 per hour with benefits. $208,000 per year for one institution 
We have 4,096 four and 2 year colleges in the US. That gets us to $3.4 billion per year. Yeah, sounds reasonable, lets do that 
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And as for the VA Tech shootings, what are your thoughts on a bill that would require all public institutions (schools, libraries, courthouses) to have have metal detectors and armed security at all entrances?
Those shooting would never have happened if the students and teachers were armed.
-J.
Are you serious? There is no way I can even form the words to begin countering that, there are too many reasons.
I’m serious, I’m speachless and as you can see that is saying a lot.
Gotta go to work.
OK……so they secure the school, college and work places. What if they just go in and pull the fire alarm, then wait in the parking lot. Don’t have to go inside, the targets come to them. A couple of car bombs at the point of exits would also work.
Guns arent the problem,people are the problem.Guns dont fire by themselves.No matter what you do bad guys will steal or get guns one way or another.Not to mention there are plenty of other weapons out there.I just feel a lot safer having a gun in my house than not.A lot of people like me just see these new laws as one more step towards taking your guns away.Maybe we should concentrate on makeing laws stiffer for those criminals with guns instead of slapping them on the hand or sending inocent people to jail that try to protect themselves.
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There is no way I can even form the words to begin countering that, there are too many reasons
One?
-J.
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Whose business is it to know if you paid your boat registration? Who cares? Why pay it?
The problem with that annology is, they won’t come and take your boat and toss you in jail. With the gun regs, they will.
-J.
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One?
Just to make jwitt feel better, I’ll jump on his side for a minute…
Can you imagine how much it would cost to outfit every teacher, janitor slash school official with government issued firearms???
Maybe Farmboy can do an estimate for me. You’re crazy Jon…what a stimulus package THAT would be!
Excuse me…schools and colleges are already “safe gun free zones”.
Why would we need metal detectors and armed (armed with what? Tasers?) guards at the doors?
No law abiding citizen would take a gun to a school or collage. It’s the law. 
All I’m saying is this. Allow law abiding, trained citizens, be they teachers or students under their own will, to possess firearms anywhere – anytime.
School shootings would not happen. Much like police station shootings don’t happen. Why? …. 
-J.
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One?
Just to make jwitt feel better, I’ll jump on his side for a minute…
Can you imagine how much it would cost to outfit every teacher, janitor slash school official with government issued firearms???
Maybe Farmboy can do an estimate for me. You’re crazy Jon…what a stimulus package THAT would be!
1.1 million Postsecondary Proffessors, $3-500 for a handgun $440 million. 
It is amazing what the google will tell you if you ask
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Much like police station shooting don’t happen. Why? ….
Because it’s against the law to take a firearm in a police station and other government buildings?
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One?
Just to make jwitt feel better, I’ll jump on his side for a minute…
Can you imagine how much it would cost to outfit every teacher, janitor slash school official with government issued firearms???
Maybe Farmboy can do an estimate for me. You’re crazy Jon…what a stimulus package THAT would be!
The idea behind conceal and carry as a deterrent is not that everyone needs to carry a gun to be effective. To apply it to schools, not all teachers would need to be armed. They would only need to be given the option to arm themselves. The key to the effectiveness of the deterrent would be in never knowing who was or wasn’t armed. You show up in a school with a plan to shoot students… you take your chances that the math teacher in room 201 is packing a .45 and is a crack shot.
How that would have effected the outcomes of the school shootings over the past few years is speculation but I do feel it very likely that if conceal and carry on campus was a possibility that it would have definitely influenced the plans of the shooters.
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Because it’s against the law to take a firearm in a police station?
No. Because criminals are cowards. Uless they feel they have the upper hand.
-J.
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Because it’s against the law to take a firearm in a police station?
No. Because criminals are cowards. Uless they feel they have the upper hand.
-J.
I’m with Brian on this one…
Even on that video the criminals said they avoid places that are likely to have guns.Do you think the hijackings of 9/11 would have happened if people had guns? Not saying passengers need to be armed but I wouldnt mind the pilots packing.
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Because it’s against the law to take a firearm in a police station?
No. Because criminals are cowards. Uless they feel they have the upper hand.
-J.
I think what Brian is saying, criminals don’t shoot up police stations because its against the law. It’s because cops have guns and will shoot back!
-J.
Thanks NSD!
…and this is the same reason that there isn’t any shootings in schools and colleges.
Wait! If there’s shootings in schools and none at a police station….and both have laws that don’t allow guns..Mr. Jordan must be correct! 
I’m never right.
With the number of criminals out there, (who pesumably would be mad at cops) it truly is an amazing stat!
-J.
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Do you think the hijackings of 9/11 would have happened if people had guns?
If the pilots were armed, it would not have happened. Four crashed planes maybe, but not the towers.
-J.
I for one do not agree with this for many reasons already stated, but mainly the fact that if you give an inch, they take a foot… 
Pete
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/
I heard this guy on Coast to Coast last night on the way home from work. Very interesting. He’s done alot of research.
also here is our firearms act in Canada.
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Thanks NSD!
…and this is the same reason that there isn’t any shootings in schools and colleges.
Wait! If there’s shootings in schools and none at a police station….and both have laws that don’t allow guns..Mr. Jordan must be correct!
I’m never right.
Whatever Brian, I’m just with you…today…on this post…awww screw it, let’s go fishing!!!
When’s the ice going to melt?
LICENSING AND REGISTRATION
Myth: Other countries register guns to fight crime
Fact: Most of these laws were enacted in the post World War I period to prevent civil uprisings as had occurred in Russia. A report of “Committee on the Control of Firearms,” written by the British Home Office officials in 1918, was the basis for registration in the U.K., Australia, Canada, and New Zealand.126
Fact: Though restrictions were few in the United States and the number of legally held handguns exceeded those on the Canadian side by a factor of 10, rates of homicide were virtually identical.127
Myth: Gun registration works
Fact: Not in New Zealand. They repealed their gun registration law in the 1980s after police acknowledged its worthlessness. 128
Fact: Not in Australia. “It seems just to be an elaborate system of arithmetic with no tangible aim. Probably, and with the best of intentions, it may have been thought, that if it were known what firearms each individual in Victoria owned, some form of control may be exercised, and those who were guilty of criminal misuse could be readily identified. This is a fallacy, and has been proven not to be the case.”129 And this costs the Australian taxpayers over $200 million annually.130
Fact: Not in Canada.
• More than 20,000 Canadian gun-owners have publicly refused to register their firearms. Many others are silently ignoring the law.
• The provincial governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have dumped both the administration and the enforcement of all federal gun-control laws right back into Ottawa’s lap, throwing the Canadian government into a paper civil war.
131• And all at a cost more than 1,646% the original projected cost (the original cost was estimated at 5% of all police expenditures in Canada 132). “The gun registry as it sits rightnow is causing law abiding citizens to register their guns but it does nothing to take one illegal gun off the street or to increase any type of penalty for anybody that violates any part of the legislation,” according to Al Koenig, President, Calgary Police Association.133 “We have an ongoing gun crisis, including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them”, according to Toronto police Chief Julian Fantino 134.
• The system is so bad that five Canadian provinces (British Columbia joins Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Ontario) are refusing to prosecute firearm owners who fail to register.135
• A bill to abolish the registry has been tabled (introduced) in the Canadian parliament which, if passed, would eliminate the registry completely.136
Fact: Not in Germany. The Federal Republic of Germany began comprehensive gun registration in 1972. The government estimated that between 17,000,000 and 20,000,000 guns were to be registered, but only 3,200,000 surfaced, leaving 80% unaccounted for.137
Fact: Not in Boston, Cleveland, or California. These cities and states require registration of “assault weapons.” The compliance rate in Boston and Cleveland is about 1%.138 California originally had a 90% non-compliance rate.139
Fact: Criminals don’t register their guns.
126 Steven W. Kendrick, “Response to Philip Alpers’ submission to the California State Assembly Select Committee on Gun Violence”, January 2000
127 Professor Brandon Centrewall , American Journal of Epidemiology, Volume 134, Page 1245-65
128 New Zealand Police Department, “Background to the Introduction of Firearms User Licensing Instead of Rifle and Shotgun Registration Under the Arms Act 1983”, (Wellington, New Zealand: n.p., 1983)
129 Chief Inspector Newgreen. Registrar of Firearms for the State of Victoria, Registration Firearms System CRB File 39-1-1385/84
130 Gary Mauser , “The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales”, The Fraser Institute, 2003
131 David Ljunggren, “Ottawa Under Pressure Over Gun Registry Fiasco”, Rueters, December 4, 2002
132 Prof. John Lott, “When ‘Gun Control’ costs lives”, Firing Line, September 2001
Gun Facts By Guy Smith
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I for one hope it passes. I can’t stand handguns, nor do I see the need for them.
And just because someone’s in your house you don’t have the right to shoot them, that’s law. So go ahead and shoot an intruder, you will go to jail just like they will. And if they die you will be tried for manslaughter. Everything you own is insured, and they are just things. You have to prove they were armed, and had intent to harm.
Reading things like this makes me so angry it isn’t funny! Because YOU can’t stand handguns means “we” can’t have them? What makes your interests more valid than mine? NOTHING that’s what! You don’t like handguns, I do. Get over it. I don’t believe in laying down like a spineless wuss allowing my family to be victimized, you apparently do. This time it is for me to get over. Whoever gave you the idea that you cannot protect yourself in your home when your life, or that of your families, is in immediate mortal danger is plain wrong! Insurance also covers your house from fire damage yet you have smoke detectors right? Why the double standard then?
Someone, anyone, please explain to me how making guns illegal will cure a dang thing? It won’t. Want proof? Murder is illegal. Rape is illegal. Burglary is illegal. See the pattern here?
Many of our fathers, grand fathers, uncles, aunts, cousins, and neighbors BLED and DIED to give us these freedoms. If you choose to sit back and let insurance take care of it you might as well go take a giant crap on the graves of all who fought for us. And when done be aware that the steaming pile is worth more to our country than any minion willing to negotiate our rights away, including the owner of said spawn.
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