The Minnesota Supreme Court rules that the DNR may again search fishing boats without probable cause….. See link to story in today’s Pioneer Press.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/6862885.htm
Jon J.
Considering the amount of lakes that we fish on which have special slot restrictions , the DNR can now do their job to protect the fishery. Hopefully this ruling will help deter poaching , especially on Mille Lacs.
Dino
The only ones who are worried about this are the illegal fisherman/women. Ifnyou have nothing to hide then what’s the difference? 
I have to say this is a good thing from my perspective. I’ve had run-ins with not so friendly wardens(never in MN), but I still believe due to the shortage in staffing these guys need all the help they can get. I personally don’t agree with the statement about an ice shanty being more private than my boat though. They are equally private in my mind.
This is a good ruling. The natural resources need protection from those who abuse the system. I always give the patrol boats a wave and a friendly “hello” if I see them. Come on over and check me anytime you want, I like to see them doing their job.
i would agree with this, like has been said the only ones that are worried about this are the ones that need to be worried about it.
Here are my 2 cents worth….
I think we all play a part in stopping poaching. I also think it’s that 1 % the ruin it for all of us.
I agree that CO’s should be able to check anglers while in the course of fishing. To me, that means while on the lake or returning to the dock. (A CO can reasonably determine a fishing boat. Poles/tackle out in plain view, water coming out of the live well…etc) No problem, check all you want!
I do not however condone road searches of boats/trucks/cars/campers or other private property simply because I have a boat on a trailer attached. Simply wrong in my book. I wish the guy who challenged the law had done it during a road stop. I’m certain the outcome would have been different.
Jon J.
I am all for them checking everyone but me. I dont mind being checked, but if the guy starts being a jerk (which hasnt happened yet)-I want the right to tell him to leave. Check everyone else though-twice!
I have had one thing that bothered my a little bit. Did you ever have these creel guys come out and take each fish out of your live well, measure them and take scales from them? We had this opening fishing on Vermilion a few years back. We usually keep fish in the live well overnight w/ the pump running and then clean them the next afternoon. Anyway, 3 of us probably had 15 fish and it took around 20-30 minutes for the stop. I got a little old after 10 minutes.
I agree with the big picture. They need to be able to do their job. But………..like waterfowler mentioned……….there are times you wished they had something more important to do than come to you LOOKING for something out of line. I’ve been less than thrilled with a couple of visits. One in particular on the Croix when a pair of them came to see how we were doing and actually got to arguing, briefly, over the length of one of the eyes in the well. They of course were measuring the shortest eye in the boat. Well, ramming the nose on the measuring bar will eventually shorten a fish and you don’t repeat this until suddenly the fish is too short!!! The older officer was watching him and finally blurted, “You don’t need to smash the nose because the tail made it over 15 inches”. So the guy is like, “I just want to make sure it’s accurate and not sliding backwards when I look at the tail.” The older guy then told him the fish is clearly legal and to knock it off!
I do agree with them being able to do their job. However, there are at times, abuse of power and loss of our freedoms. I have no problem checking fish and license while on the water or at the dock. However, it needs to stop there. Pulling over a truck/boat along side the highway (because they “might” be), in my opinion is a loss of freedom and rights per our constitution and I don’t agree with that power.
Again, not to support ability to poach and I’m strongly against it, but to preserve our rights of freedom. I find it more in our own responsibility of sportsman and sportswomen to turn in poachers, as we all see it every year.
[qoote]I have had one thing that bothered my a little bit. Did you ever have these creel guys come out and take each fish out of your live well, measure them and take scales from them? We had this opening fishing on Vermilion a few years back. We usually keep fish in the live well overnight w/ the pump running and then clean them the next afternoon. Anyway, 3 of us probably had 15 fish and it took around 20-30 minutes for the stop. I got a little old after 10 minutes.
DaveB….As a former creel clerk, I just wanted to say this. In Minnesota, you don’t HAVE to do the survey if you don’t want. The majority of these surveys can be done in the time it takes you to tie down, unpack your boat and secure the rest of your things. If they want to take scales, the creel clerk should have asked you if you minded if he take a little more time and if you wanted to you could have told him to only do a few. He didn’t need to do every one. In Wisconsin however, the law states that you MUST answer the questions of a creel clerk. Trust me, if people don’t want to answer them they won’t or they will give you bs info instead. So anyway, that’s just my 2 cents worth.
For what it’s worth. The info gathered in those surveys is the best method the dnr has of estimating the annual catch/harvest/release of fish. So they are very valuable to the dnr.
hey guys, here comes my 2 cents worth.
If they are doing it on known lakes where the smaller fish are taken, or taken out of the slot size, like at mill lacs. but if they are looking for any reason to be looking at everyones boat just because you are out fishing, and not caring about what fish you have in the livewell, but what “other stuff” you have in the boat, then it is flat out wrong. I don’t mind showing what i have caught, seeing how i am mostly catch and release, but I don’t want some needle nose dude with an attitude on my boat, or in my boat accusing me of breaking the law. I may end up pushing him over board!!! for the fisheries, i agree, but only on the water, once it is on the trailer, it is part of your vehicle. need a warrant. sorry, but it upsets me that they will suspect alot of honest anglers of cheating, and flat out accuse that angler to his face. I think that we are over a barrel in this one.
shane 
From the article:
Quote:
“Recreational fishing is a highly regulated and licensed privilege,” Justice James Gilbert wrote for the majority in the split opinion. “Those who choose to apply for this privilege accept the conditions imposed, unique to the sport of game fishing. Among those conditions is allowing conservation officers to inspect their catch and boat or other conveyance used to transport fish.”
So question: In Wisconsin, where they have amended their bill of rights to include fishing – this argument fails, no?
I wasn’t going to say a word but my mouth disorder has gotten the best of me again. 
In U.S. law we have this concept called “reasonable expectation of privacy” and it has been battled out in the courts and the back rooms of saloons since the days of the Boston Tea Party. Generally speaking, you have the greatest expectation of privacy in your home. Once you hop into anything that moves, including your vehicle (including an RV) and your boat, your level of “expectation of privacy” is reduced. Right or wrong, it’s well documented in our legal history. However, just because your expectation of privacy is reduced shoud not mean that you ought to have no expectation of privacy . What we’re talking about here is what is the justification for the search. We use terms like “probable cause” and “reasonable suspicion” to determine the justification of a search, but this law appears to suggest that a Conservation Officer can search “on a whim”, with no justification other than the fact that you’re in a boat on the water. Now, even then, in my opinion, I would be fine with that as long as the search was only intended to regulate conservation and game laws, and the “fruits” of that search could not be used to incriminate the subject in any other way . We have the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree Docrine which exludes evidence that is obtained via an illegal search in this country. In my opinion, any search that doesn’t at least require “probable cause” is a very poison tree. Even so, I’m willing to give up a little freedom for the security of knowing that our natural resources are being protected from the mindless and the careless. But I am not for our government continuing to find the ways and means to reduce our constitutional freedoms in order to catch a few more criminals. We have to maintain a balance between security and freedom. I’m afraid a law such as this is much bigger than just the fishes and the fishermen. It appears we’ll all find out.
Thanks for the soap box. I feel better now. 
just finished reading the Star Trib articile from friday for the third time and I’m still confused. The ruling seems to address a very narrow set of circumstances, which is what the case was based on. Fish houses no, fishing boats yes, just because you can sleep and eat in the house. the DNR still needs probable cause to stop your boat, but if you admit to fishing they can turn it inside out looking for fish ? good grief. I’m not a poacher or a lawyer but this ruling seems to just make things more confusing 
The dissenting justice looked down the road and saw the possibility of an enormous opportunity for the abuse of power. this doesn’t help the relationship of enforcement and the sporting public. One person quoted said this will just keep some lawyers busy for years, yeah we wouldn’t want them to run out of things to do. Now instead of having clarified the situation it gets even more murky. oh well good fishing to all 
Wade, I too was holding my water on this post but since you waded in I will as well. It amazes me that people are so willing to give up their freedoms for so little. No poached walleye is worth my right to privacy.Real democracy and the freedoms that come with it are damaged every time one of these laws are passed. This supossed homeland security and the attiiude that spawned it has put us well on our way down a slippery slope that
scares me big time.
“Those who choose to apply for this privilege accept the conditions imposed, unique to the sport of game fishing. Among those conditions is allowing conservation officers to inspect their catch and boat or other conveyance used to transport fish.”
This decision, the way I read it, could open up your cars/trucks to searches during any routine traffic stop. After all don’t we all
apply for a licence to drive. I agree with Jon Jordon when he states that vehicals shouldn’t be singled out just becouse they are pulling a boat. They should have to have probable cause to make the stop. Not just a suspicion.
keep your boat legal, and don’t poach and you won’t have a problem. Remember ths came about because some lawyer thought that a CO. looking in a livewell was invasion of privacy. How nuts is that. It is protection of our resources, let the wardens do their job. Including roadside searches. As far as the creel count, this is also for the good of the fishery. Let them do their job too!
Quote:
keep your boat legal, and don’t poach and you won’t have a problem.
All your boat are belong to us.
Quote:
How nuts is that.
Nuts enough for me to weigh in on this. I have a friend who lives in the UK. He works for DERA (Defense Engineering and Research Agency – government sponsored advanced weapons development). He is a “trusted” citizen to say the least. Unfortunately, he has a non-state approved hobby that causes him a great deal of inconvenience: He enjoys shotgunning.
Now, being a good citizen, he has something called a ‘shotgun permit’ which allows him to keep a side-by-side (no repeating action) at his house. It must be kept in a locked vault or cabinet that cannot be moved or transported easily. The ammunition must be kept under lock and key, but apart from the gun. He does all of this to comply with the law (remember, good citizen, trusted citizen).
Here’s where it gets interesting. Because he has applied for the privilege of owning a shotgun, he is subject to a little special treatment. Twice a year, officers from a regulatory commission come to his house unanounced. They are in plainclothes, so that you don’t know who they are until after you open the door. They come into his house and inspect that his guns and ammo are locked up and stored appropriately. Refusal of access results in immediate termination of priveleges and confiscation of the ‘weapon’ and all ammunition. They are free to search the remainder of the house for other items at will.
Had enough? Noooooo… They can also contact and question his wife without his knowledge. She may be prohibited from telling him that she was contacted or questioned. Surely minors are protected, right? Nope. They can pull his kids out of class and question them without his knowledge or permission.
While this sounds outrageous to you and me, he accepts it as being just the facts – a way of living, I suppose. He gladly opens his house to inspection, and trusts that his children will never be used against him.
His opinion is, “I’ve done nothing wrong, and have nothing to fear.”
My opinion is, “A man born in chains has no want for freedom.”
I have no problem with CO’s checking a livewell if a person is engaged in fishing. I have no problem with volountary creel surveys. There is a line that can be crossed, and anyone who thinks that a right to privacy is worth flushing should reconsider.
I see this a necessary inconveniance. The DNR cannot possibly do their job properly without the ability to check boatss for illegal activities. Please remember that the DNR’s total purpose in life is to protect the future of hunting and fishing for all of us and our children. Anyone that is not breaking the law need not worry about having their boats checked. My two cents.
Gator Hunter
Gianni, I guess I do not understand what you are saying. By letting a CO do there job and look in your livewell is not invasion of privacy. Unless you are trying to hide something.
I see exactly what Gianni is getting at. Too many of you seem willing to throw away the your rights.
Quote:
The DNR cannot possibly do their job properly without the ability to check boatss for illegal activities.
I believe they can.
That’s like saying the government cannot win the war on drugs without searching every car that leaves Florida.
The real problem is the fact there are not enough DNR enforcement officers. Fix that problem and don’t trample on my rights to freedom and privacy.
Jon J.
I would like to protect my privacy as much as anybody. But you have to remember that fishing is a privilege. If somebody feels that strongly about not having their boat checked all they have to do is not fish. If you don’t have a fishing license then your boat cannot be checked. Problem solved. I will put up with having my boat checked because I believe it is necessary. There are not enough officers to watch everybody on the water. I think that they should do all they can to protect our fisheries from the actions of a few immoral, greedy people.
Gator Hunter
I see the DNR no different than the local cops. Wouldn’t the local cops catch more criminals if they could pull you over anytime for any reason and search you???
Slippery Slope isn’t it!!
Jon J.
There’s a lot of use of the word “freedom” here. I don’t know where this will go but I get a bit “tense” over this word being used while not being looked upon as a responsibility so much as the presence of a “right”.
Freedoms have been given throughout our history but the lack of responsibility among the offenders and the failing enforcement of the people, pushes cries to the government to fix our issues. They pass laws and someone, always…………..someone gets upset by it. Those that choose to comply are in favor of having the government handle it and those who oppose don’t want the government handle it.
I have spoken in favor of these regulations on many occassions but it’s a constant battle within myself. I KNOW………..by the documentations of history that we the people WILL NOT take the responsibility necessary to keep the government out of it. In many cases, we’re not allowed to even try……………thanks again to someone getting upset and putting it to the controls and confines of our government.
This cycle continues and eventually turns into the very thing Gianni is talking about. It’s not freedom, it’s permission. And permission through compliance.
So………knowing “the people” won’t handle it, do I then still oppose the legislation being discussed here? I almost have no viable choice but to agree that “if I’m not breaking the law, what’s the problem?”
But every time I see that boat coming……………….I’m made to feel a LOT less free than I did a few minutes earlier.
I encourage all of us to make a bigger difference but when tips are needed to set up a sting or a bust, that tells me we can’t even apply citizen’s arrest. If these things are true, understand that the very core of what our forefathers intended has already been lost. Preservation is not up to our government……………never has been. Preservation of our republic has been up to us.
I’ve probably ruffled a few feathers here……………but history shows the truth and trend……………. and I challenge due diligence before going on an emotional whirlwind. Freedom is not a government regulation………………..but is straight forwardly effected by it.
I don’t have an issue with a search generated by a, provable in court, “reasonable cause.” My not so terrible but objectionable search occurred under the same type of law in Missouri. 
A DNR officer approached us in the parking lot at a Mark Twain ramp, and indicated he wanted to check our livewells. No problem except his boatside manner was one of being a Shi^head about it. I had nothing to hide and understand why they do this but Geez, improving his social skills wouldn’t hurt. I would also say I have fished in Minnesota frequently and never encountered that type of Behavior Disorder. Being decent about this stuff goes a long way toward getting support from the fishing public. 
Fishing is NOT a privilege. It is a God given right we’ve had since the dawn of time. Yes, we do pay to exercise this right and yes, we do need fish and game depts and regulations to help protect the species we seek. That’s where our license monies are supposed to go. If you violate these protection laws you can lose the right to fish. But it is still a Right, not a privilege. 
Quote:
Fishing is NOT a privilege. It is a God given right we’ve had since the dawn of time.
Actually, it has only been a “Right” to hunt and fish since 1998….. That’s when voters in Minnesota amended the Constitution to make it a right, rather than just a privilege.
Jon J.
Jon, I’ll stick with what I just said, thanks.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
