Sweet innocent puppies

Sorry if this thread offended your sensibilities Bret. I started the thread because this sort of thing happens too often. Yes, all dogs can bite, all dogs can be viscious, all can turn, they are animals. Heck, it happens to people too. Look at the nut cases at Columbine, CO etc…Point is, seems like the majority of people KILLED by dogs are KILLED by Pits, not border collies, blue healers, black and tans or great danes.

My personal feeling is these dogs should not be allowed in “residential” areas. Call it my agenda if you will, but I do not care for these dogs. Fortunatly I no longer live in the city or a “residential” area. The beauty of where I live now, is I can shoot the first aggressive dog that trots across my property. I do not care if it is a pit bull or a pomaranian. If it is aggressive and comes after my kids, my wife or my lab, its gonna suffer from High Speed lead poisoning.

As long as were talking about my agenda’s…keep an eye out for my posts against Billary Clinton and the rest of the left wing taxahollics that will surely apear in the next several months.

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Not sure I have ever read about a lab, collie, poodle etc…MAULING and KILLING anyone. BIG difference between Being bitten and being KILLED.

I don’t mind being called a woman, especially when its comes from such a nice transvestite as Kooty.

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Hmmm, that is because they don’t make the news. I found several articles with other dog breeds killing. Siberian Huskies, the beloved Lab, mountain dogs, a golden mauling another dog and children. I know a little girl who will have a scar for life on her face from getting mauled by a golden. But I guess they are still wonderful dogs because it didn’t kill her.

It is amazing how many times we get rushed by Labs when we are walking our dogs. Yes, they haven’t killed us but they are aggressive and coming after me or my dogs. Sounds like a real lovable dog. Sure makes me wonder why they are not secured in their yard. Probably because the owners believe Labs are lovable and do nothing wrong, at least that is what I keep hearing on this site. I know if my shepherd was to get away from me and kill the dog, the newspaper would report that a german shepherd killed a lab, but would fail to mention the shepherd was protecting itself from the aggressive lab. And for the record I have been around very lovable labs also. It isn’t the dog, it is the environment it is raised in.

I’m not saying that pit bulls and all of their relatives are not dangerous. All dogs are dangerous. But every time there is some attack, everybody looks at the dog breed. Maybe you should take a good look at the owner instead.

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I don’t mind being called a woman, especially when its comes from such a nice transvestite as Kooty.

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Were you the one peaking under the stall in the Minneapolis airport last week?? Here I thought it was the Senator from Utah. Leave me alone in there from now on!!!

I think perhaps people need to have an IQ test when it comes to animal ownership. ALL dogs require training and some might need a lot more than others. All too often people buy a breed of dog because “its cool” and have no idea what kind of breeder they are getting them from or how much training certain dogs require. There are just too many people out there breeding dogs for all the wrong reasons and don’t care how their temperaments turn out and pitbulls are one of these breeds. Condemning the whole breed as bad and saying they should be banned would be as foolish as me saying all fishermen must be rednecks with glittery boats from Texas because thats what I see on TV.

Actually the German Shepherd War dogs are now being trained to grab the Oysters or the Neck. During the Vietnam War the communists figured out that if you give the dog your arm it is easy to shoot them. A bit more difficult when they have you around the neck or the oysters.

Interesting about these supposed other breeds and all their maulings, where the lab attack story posted here was a one bite deal where the dog bit and ran away. I know a guy that got bit by his lab, dog bit, ran away and hid under a workbench. Funny how these pitbull stories always seem to involve biting until death or sever mauling, going for the throat, attacking people who try and stop the biting, etc, etc. One ever moves into my neighborhood and steps into my yard it’s going down to the Benelli. I don’t let people walk into the yard armed, and a pitbull is often an uncontroled weapon.

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Interesting about these supposed other breeds and all their maulings, where the lab attack story posted here was a one bite deal where the dog bit and ran away.

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That was one of about 6 that I googled up on my first search, but I have better things to do than spend all day posting various dog attacks. News reports are not a reliable gauge of attack frequency anyway. The media is in the business of selling advertising and newspapers. The actual journalism comes second. People pay attention when they hear the words “pit bull attack” therefore it makes the news. For example, hundreds of people drown swimming in the ocean every year and you never hear about it past the local news. A handful of people get attacked by sharks and it’s national news. Like I said news reports are a relatively poor way to gauge anything. The media has done a very good job at villianizing these animals.

My overall point is not to change anyones minds. If you feel a certain way thats your opinion. You don’t like pits, don’t get one. You don’t trust them around your kids, then be a parent and watch what your kids are doing.
But don’t infringe on my right to own one either. Leave me the hell alone.

I think topics like these have an obvious agenda and cause nothing but trouble. They should be pulled just like political and religious posts. When I see something as absurd as the original post I cannot help myself but to get into it.

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…Point is, seems like the majority of people KILLED by dogs are KILLED by Pits, not border collies, blue healers, black and tans or great danes.

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Yes, and the majority of people killed by guns are killed by hand guns (dept. of justice). In fact, thousands more people are killed by handguns relative to dogs… So do you feel that handguns should be illegal too?

Like I said, keep your hands off my rights and I’ll stay away from yours. That’s how America is supposed to work.

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It is amazing how many times we get rushed by Labs when we are walking our dogs. Probably because the owners believe Labs are lovable and do nothing wrong, at least that is what I keep hearing on this site.

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I run into all kinds of breeds that have many bahavioral issues when being walked. This needs to be worked out by the dog owner, I don’t blame the dog.
Now for your statement about hearing on this site that labs are lovable and do nothing wrong, well sir that is a misleading quote on your part. I have been on the dog forum since it was introduced. I do not ever recall anyone making a statement that their lab or any other breed for that matter does no wrong.
We go to great lengths and put in countless hours of work with our hunting companions so we probably do give the impression that they are lovable, at least to the respective owner. Again show me a post where anyone says their dog does no wrong.

pitbulls

pit bull

a real killer

Pit bull attacks

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It is amazing how many times we get rushed by Labs when we are walking our dogs. Probably because the owners believe Labs are lovable and do nothing wrong, at least that is what I keep hearing on this site.

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I run into all kinds of breeds that have many bahavioral issues when being walked. This needs to be worked out by the dog owner, I don’t blame the dog.
Now for your statement about hearing on this site that labs are lovable and do nothing wrong, well sir that is a misleading quote on your part. I have been on the dog forum since it was introduced. I do not ever recall anyone making a statement that their lab or any other breed for that matter does no wrong.
We go to great lengths and put in countless hours of work with our hunting companions so we probably do give the impression that they are lovable, at least to the respective owner. Again show me a post where anyone says their dog does no wrong.

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I haven’t ever been on the dog forum because I don’t have hunting dogs. Sorry if you feel I am misleading anybody?? My point was every time a post comes up about how bad a certain breed is, someone pipes up that a lab would never do anything like this. I believe someone on this thread posted that a lab doesn’t need any training and will eventually bring an animal back. I’ve always wondered why my neighbors do not tie up their labs and let them run all over the place. As I learned from reading these post (on threads about bad breeds, not the hunting dog forum), I’m sure they think labs wouldn’t ever run out the street and attack other dogs/people because they are just hunting dogs (thus comment that labs do nothing wrong). Maybe I will start looking at the dog forum to see what people are saying about their dogs because I am just getting a small sample of post on labs. And I’m not trying to pick on labs. I actually like labs, but they can still be aggressive.

As like you and the hunters you work with, I have spent a lot of time and money making sure my shepherd is an obedient dog, but I would never be dumb enough to leave him in the front yard free to do whatever he decides to do.

I think your quote about “We go to great lengths and put in countless hours of work with our hunting companions..” is a little misleading because you are making a general statement about all hunting dog owners when in fact there are many hunting dog owners that have no business owning dogs, just like with all breeds.

My point (and it sounds like you agree) is stop looking at the dog breed and take a look at the owners a little more.

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Interesting about these supposed other breeds and all their maulings, where the lab attack story posted here was a one bite deal where the dog bit and ran away. I know a guy that got bit by his lab, dog bit, ran away and hid under a workbench. Funny how these pitbull stories always seem to involve biting until death or sever mauling, going for the throat, attacking people who try and stop the biting, etc, etc. One ever moves into my neighborhood and steps into my yard it’s going down to the Benelli. I don’t let people walk into the yard armed, and a pitbull is often an uncontroled weapon.

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Here are a couple for you:

Golden mauls child
German Shorthair mauls dog
Siberian Husky mauls baby
Siberian Husky mauls infant
Lab mauls other dog and attacks owner
Mountain dog kills old lady
Lab attacks city workers
Bloodhound mauls kid
Golden mauls child
Another Golden mauls child
Lab mauls child
Lab mix

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My point was every time a post comes up about how bad a certain breed is, someone pipes up that a lab would never do anything like this. I believe someone on this thread posted that a lab doesn’t need any training and will eventually bring an animal back.

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After doing a search, I am still not finding any statements that exist like you claim on every thread about dogs. Dog forum or general forum.

The statement made on this thread clearly stated that a lab because of genetics is likely to retrieve, it did not say they did not need training.

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I think your quote about “We go to great lengths and put in countless hours of work with our hunting companions..” is a little misleading because you are making a general statement about all hunting dog owners when in fact there are many hunting dog owners that have no business owning dogs, just like with all breeds.

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Your orginal post claimed that you keep reading how lab owners on this site keep claiming their dogs do no wrong. My statement was made in reference to dog owners on this site. If I would have said “all hunting dog owners” then you would have a argument.

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My point was every time a post comes up about how bad a certain breed is, someone pipes up that a lab would never do anything like this. I believe someone on this thread posted that a lab doesn’t need any training and will eventually bring an animal back.

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After doing a search, I am still not finding any statements that exist like you claim on every thread about dogs. Dog forum or general forum.

The statement made on this thread clearly stated that a lab because of genetics is likely to retrieve, it did not say they did not need training.

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I guess search a little harder…These are all on post about “bad breed” dogs. I could find more if you really want me to, but I’m sure it won’t make a difference.

“I do worry about a few breeds though, Rotts, Pit Bulls, Doberman, etc.

I understand that most are great pets, it is just the way that they are perceived in the news, movies, and TV. I am wondering every-time I am around one of those breeds, will it bite me OR my kids this time. That is never crosses my mind when I am around a Lab, Pointer, Golden, Etc.”

“Plus it’s not like you hear of dog fights with Labs”

“The real crime is they are breeding these dogs, not killing them (Pit bulls etc). It’s not like they are fighting labs”

“A lab has to be trained to be a Bad Dog”

I’m not saying anybody is a bad owner here. Just that statements show that people don’t think labs can be dangerous. Sorry if you find it offensive or misleading or whatever.

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I think your quote about “We go to great lengths and put in countless hours of work with our hunting companions..” is a little misleading because you are making a general statement about all hunting dog owners when in fact there are many hunting dog owners that have no business owning dogs, just like with all breeds.

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Your orginal post claimed that you keep reading how lab owners on this site keep claiming their dogs do no wrong. My statement was made in reference to dog owners on this site. If I would have said “all hunting dog owners” then you would have a argument.

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Oh, sorry I misunderstood you. Again, I wasn’t trying to offend anybody. You sound like the hunting dog authority on this site so I will take your word for it that all the hunting dog owners on this site are great.

I apologize for connecting what my neighbors do with their labs to a couple statements on this site. In fact, I take it back. I still don’t know why my neighbors allow their dogs to run free and charge us walking down the street. They certainly are not members of IDA. I must just live in a bad neighborhood. My bad.

Just for the record, I never said anybody on here was a bad owner, just that some statements shows you that people believe that Labs are not dangerous. I still say it is the owner, not the dog.

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As long as were talking about my agenda’s…keep an eye out for my posts against Billary Clinton and the rest of the left wing taxahollics that will surely apear in the next several months.

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Wade you have been around here long enough to know that MOST topics are welcome here. Posts of a political or religious nature will be deleted.

I just wanted to remind you of that rule so that after you post that political thread you will not be suprized when you get a time out from posting here.

Post deleted by Don Hanson

No problem Steve….

and CC, when was the last time a handgun just jumped up and killed someone? The answer is Never. Only when someone picked it up and operated it. That pitbull lying on the floor doesn’t need someone to pick it up and pull the trigger.

“Any dog can attack”

As I stated, the instinct is stronger in pits, obviously any breed can attack, hence the reason we call them animals, I have even been bit by a gerbil and cat, just saying that pits are more likely to put you in jeopardy on a long term basis than are labs or poodles.

Frankly, I am not sure you are correct, because one culture on this planet has trained Pit Bulls to fight, and those folks could not even take care of a goldfish.

After the Michael Vick thing the National Humane Society posted two films regarding Pit Bulls. One is violent and the other quite the opposite, but the violent one deals with what these dogs are forced to do (fight because of their owners) and it is worth a look.

My family is involved with dog training, rescue and just plain pets. My daughter, who works for the Milwaukee Humane Society, does admit that the most euthanized dog is the Pit Bull. But that has more to do with the owners past treatment of the pit bull/rottweiler then the dog.

As for the person that posted the Pit Bulll playing with the chick, I sent a similar post to my breeder, except it was a German Shepherd playing with this 3 year old girl. I thought is was cute, but my breeder’s response was direct and critical. Whomever owns that dog is stupid because it just takes one bite. You have to be more responsible, don’t ever put Timber in that situation. Timber is an European Bred German Shepherd, purchased strickly by me as a companion dog.

As for the comments about labs, those that criticize that dog have little understanding of their bite history and I doubt have ever owned one. Almost all injuries labs cause are because of playfulness and occur with young kids. They do not have the prey/kill instinct of some other breeds. Heck, a good hunting lab does not even hurt the bird he is retrieving.

For those that differ, we will see you this weekend in Rogers, MN. during the National Dock Diving Championships. You have the opportunity to meet over 100 labs, and I cannot think of one that is mean or overly aggressive.

If you want to say hi just look for “Jumpin George”. He is Yellow lab, with a black vest and sponsored by Fleet Farm and Nutro Dog Foods.

My son is the handler and I am the mascot.

Whomever posted the

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No problem Steve….

and CC, when was the last time a handgun just jumped up and killed someone? The answer is Never. Only when someone picked it up and operated it. That pitbull lying on the floor doesn’t need someone to pick it up and pull the trigger.

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That is a point I was trying to make Wade. Handguns also don’t run off the property if they get loose either.

Part of the problem is that the most irresponsible levels of society are often the ones who have the most dangerous breeds of dogs.

The lab vs. pitbull debate that has went on here is stupid for one reason. How many more labs are there in America than pitbulls? 10 times more? Probably 100 times more? I’m sure the media may publicize pitbull maulings more, but if labs were mauling people at the same per dog rate I would bet it would be all over the news.

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Pit bull attacks

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If your point is there are some pit bulls that don’t maul people and can make good pets, I agree with you.

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As for the comments about labs, those that criticize that dog have little understanding of their bite history and I doubt have ever owned one. Almost all injuries labs cause are because of playfulness and occur with young kids. They do not have the prey/kill instinct of some other breeds. Heck, a good hunting lab does not even hurt the bird he is retrieving.

For those that differ, we will see you this weekend in Rogers, MN. during the National Dock Diving Championships. You have the opportunity to meet over 100 labs, and I cannot think of one that is mean or overly aggressive.

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I guess you are talking to me? You are correct. I have never owned one, but my sister has two and they are the sweetest dogs. Several of my friends also have labs. I actually used to dog sit for one all the time. So I have been around them a lot. In fact I wanted one but the wife vetoed it. I’ve also been around the pit bull types, which I am guessing many of the people who rip them never have. My wife grew up with Staffordshire Bull Terriers, german shepherds, and Boerbols (if you women are scared of a pit bull, this dog will cause you to change your shorts! ). She grew up in a different world than us and their dogs were pure guard dogs and I would have been very nervous around them.

All these labs I know are great, but the owners (not trying to be too biased) are also great. Yet, I walk around my neighborhood and get charged (and believe me, they are not coming out to play) by labs. There needs to be a reason they are aggressive?? I’m guessing those owners are not so great. Maybe they have never been trained? Maybe they have been abused? Maybe they just have a screw loose? How knows? In my opinion, the owners have the thought that Labs are just playful and don’t harm anybody so why worry about restraining them. In fact up until three years ago, that is the attitude I had towards labs, until I saw this different behavior on walks.

And these don’t sound like play bits either. I know a couple of these stories are lab mixes so their personality is a little less stable…

Lab kills dog
Lab attacks
Lab mix attacks
Lab mix attacks

So again, my point is Labs can be great dogs, but it isn’t just because it is a lab breed. The environment that a lab is raised is very important…just like for the pit bull types. And when there is an issue, look at the owner and not the breed!

I 100 percent agree that you need to look at the owner and not the breed, that will have allot to do with what kind of personality any dog will end up with. I have no problem with someone that has owns a Pitbull as long as they are responsible owners, I think Jon said it best………..

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Pitbulls are great dogs. They take a special kind of person to own them. They are very aggressive and impulsive at that 2-4 yr old age. Need to keep them on a short leash and you need to establish complete domination over them. Most people can’t or won’t do that and then you end up with a bad dog.

Keep one in your house and there is a better than average chance you won’t be burglarized!

-J.

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I know I will get slammed for this but IMHO I would also add that the “special kind of person” should not have kids, you can show me all the cute video’s and pics you want of Pitbulls with kids and it still does not change the fact that these dogs are bred to fight, it is in there blood same way that my GSP is bred to hunt it is in her blood I did not have to teach her how to hunt that just came natural to her. Yes I know that there Pitbulls out there that make good pets but for me personally I would never take that chance with kids in the house for the plan and simple fact that the odds are higher that any Pitbull could turn on anyone, it only takes one time and that is a risk that I am not willing to take. As for German Sheppard’s I like them, and if I was not a hunter and it was the right kind of German Sheppard personality wise I would have no problem owning one. Do not get me wrong there are also some GSP that I would not own some are just too high strung and would be bouncing off the walls if you had them in the house. My GSP gives me the best of both worlds she has a mellow personality but is all business when it comes to hunting pheasants. She is a house dog, she grew up with my 12 year old daughter and they are the best of buds, my GSP is 10. I am a firm believer in having your dog in the house with you as they will make much better pets, she does have an outside kennel and her dog house is inside my heated garage but I only keep her in there if we are going to be gone for most of the day.

Here is a pic of my daughter with my GSP Abby and my Wife’s American Eskimo Snowball. Snowball is 5 now this pic was taken in 2004.

FRIVERS2,
Do you have any more info (links) on the National Dock Diving Championships in Rogers this weekend? I have a friend who has a Chocolate Lab that what’s to go go go all the time he refers to him as the psycho dog .
I take care of him from time to time, I have a dummy launcher that this dog just loves to retrieve and he will just not quit, he would go until he dropped over dead if you let him. I think with the right kind of training he would make an awesome Dock Dog.

Great post. Beautiful dogs and nice hat! And Jon’s post is great too. All I have been saying is to give the breed a break. For me personally, I wouldn’t own a pit breed type because I am not that “special kind of person” to have the time to give it everything it needs. We got a guard dog, but we have an American bloodline German Shepherd, where FRIVERS2 has a European bloodline dog. There is a huge difference between those two. The American breed has a bit of a calmer personality. But that doesn’t mean I would attempt to break into our house! We went with the American breed because we didn’t feel like we could be the type of owners that the European dog needs. I know my limitations.

Our breeder actually interviewed us and we had to spend time with all of their dogs before they would sell us one. I think that is a sign of a good breeder; making sure they are not selling dogs to just anybody. They gave us tips of how to keep our dog, us, and other dogs/people safe:

Never play tug-o-war with a shepherd because if it gets in the situation with a child over a toy, the child could get hurt (one of those play injuries)

Put up a fence (this was actually a requirement for us to get the dog). Electric fences might keep your dog in, but it doesn’t keep other dogs/people out.

And don’t tie a shepherd up. This is what makes them aggressive always pulling on the rope (thus another reason for the fence).

We also have a beagle/rat terrier mix. It is pretty funny because as soon as they start fighting over a toy, the shepherd drops it. And she is always biting him or pulling on his tail and he just takes it. Once in a while he will put her head in his month just so she knows who is the boss, but it is really amazing watching these two interact. Here is a picture of her showing him who is the boss, and later using him as a pillow.