Do you have to show a warden your live well?

  • jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #598822

    Your interpretation is incorrect. Read on.

    Here is the decision.

    D E C I S I O N

    We do not address Colosimo’s other arguments, concerning whether Officer Steen had reasonable suspicion to effectuate an investigatory stop or to seize the boat or its occupants. The dispositive issue before us, when considering Colosimo’s conviction for refusal to allow inspection, is whether Officer Steen was required to have probable cause to request inspection of Colosimo’s boat. We hold that Officer Steen was required to have probable cause to request inspection of the boat; that he did not have probable cause to make such request; and that, absent probable cause to request inspection, Colosimo cannot be convicted for refusal to allow inspection.

    Here is a link to the entire case:

    Supreme Court Ruling

    -J.

    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #598840

    Hmmm…well when they say reversed then, they must mean they are reversing the original conviction and not the court of appeals decision?? See this is why I am not a lawyer, I don’t understand the jargon.

    outdoors4life
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts: 1500
    #598845

    Quote:


    Almost got checked Sturgeon fishing but the CO decided not to when we told him if he wanted to see AUDEMPS license he would have to pull it out of his pocket himself. He had a 50+ inch Sturgeon on the line and was a little busy.

    The Co was not so interested in doing that. So we pointed out that he should go check the shady characters in the boat just south of us(Larry and Shamu)and he headed right down and checked them out. We also told him to make sure and check there livewell.
    It was funny. You had to be there.


    That CO was great I told them you guys were shady

    HE was a very polite guy and I told him were were up there as a group and explained the get together.

    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #598850

    Well I went back and found the actual case off of a different website. The actual case is 16 pages long (single spaced). I would send you the link but unfortunately it is a pay site… It is very confusing. It looks to me you are looking at the opinion of Judge Hanson, who didn’t take part in the actual decision. Judge Page was dissenting. Here is Judge Page’s dissenting opinion:

    Today’s sweeping decision holding that there is no expectation of privacy in areas of an open boat where fish are typically stored overturns recent precedent and eviscerates the constitutional protection against unreasonable searches. Because both conservation officers and police officers are bound as peace officers by the same constitutional constraints, the court’s decision has now opened the door for warrantless searches by any peace officer upon the mere suspicion that an individual is, has been, or will in the future engage in hunting or fishing. As the Court said in Frost, “It is inconceivable that guaranties embedded in the Constitution * * * may thus be manipulated out of existence.”

    Therefore, I respectfully dissent.

    Judge Anderson was concurring in part and dissenting in part.

    ANDERSON, PAUL H., Justice (concurring in part and dissenting in part).
    I concur in part and dissent in part. I concur in the majority’s conclusion that Officer Steen had the right to inspect the open sections of Colosimo’s fishing boat and that Colosimo prevented Steen from doing so; therefore, Steen was justified in issuing Colosimo a citation for violating But, unlike the majority, I would end the analysis at this point. The majority goes beyond what is necessary to decide this case when it holds that Steen had the right to inspect any “other conveyance” used by Colosimo to transport fish.

    So again, it sounds to me that the Supreme Court reversed the court of appeals decision??

    Are you telling me there isn’t one lawyer or judge on this site that could give us all the correct interpretation on this?

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #598852

    When I read that, by Page disenting he is agreeing with the ruling. But again, I’m no lawyer. That case was straight off the March 2003 calendar here >>> http://www.courts.state.mn.us/sc/calendar/march2003.doc

    If you scroll down to the case and click on the ruling there it is clear what the ruling was. >>>> http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctappub/0207/c7012181.htm

    Buy the way, if this was reversed in any way, it would be appealed to the US Supreme court. I beleive the case would stand.

    -J.

    Craig Matter
    Hager City,Wi
    Posts: 556
    #598887

    Your right to privacy…..good question. I guess I look at it if you refuse to let a CO/police officer to search your boat or your house while you are present I think you’re guilty of doing something wrong…..As long as I can watch them search my possession (to ensure they don’t plant some thing ) why would you care.

    Chip away at our rights….would it be so bad if we would announce that over the next year we are going to search every dwelling in the USA for METH labs….. Would you care?? Why should these criminals be able to commit the crimes they do???? Why should these criminals have the right to destroy so many lives???? Because we all have the right to privacy?? Maybe for the good of people we should not handcuff our law enforcement.

    The honest are honest…….the bad are BAD. We need to stop the BAD in this world….I guess I’m willing to give a little to prevent the bad, not really sure the best way to go about it……

    My 2 cents….this should ruffle some feathers…………

    Whatsa

    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #598896

    I read what you posted. It isn’t the entire case. Again, I think it is just the opinion of one judge?

    Actually I think Page is disagreeing with the majority decision of the Supreme Court. So to me the decision was that the Cos are allowed to search your boat. The first line really says it.

    Quote:


    Today’s sweeping decision (of the supreme court) holding that there is no expectation of privacy in areas of an open boat where fish are typically stored overturns recent precedent and eviscerates the constitutional protection against unreasonable searches


    Anderson is agreeing that the CO should be able to check the open areas of the boat but disagrees that the CO can check other areas of the boat.

    As for the US Supreme Court, I believe this would need to be a federal case. I think the MN Supreme Court is as high as this case can go.

    This is an example of why when I am check, I let them look and don’t start talking about invading my privacy. I am not hiding anything. If they actually find that I am doing something wrong, then I will pay the fine. I know what my ‘rights’ are under the Bill of Rights, but that doesn’t mean some judge didn’t change my ‘rights’ with his decision in some case. If you are not trained to understand the law and/or case precedence, you shouldn’t yap to a CO about the Bill of Rights. You might just get yourself in more trouble than just letting them do their job. Unless of course, you are hiding something. Then ya might want to come up with every excuse in the book!

    col._klink
    St Paul
    Posts: 2542
    #598906

    Quote:


    Maybe for the good of people we should not handcuff our law enforcement.

    The honest are honest…….the bad are BAD. We need to stop the BAD in this world….I guess I’m willing to give a little to prevent the bad.

    Whatsa


    Well said Whatsa. If you got nothing to hide what do you have worry about.

    A C/O stopping to check you should only take a couple minutes. And they have all the P/C they need. Your FISHING. They have the right to request to see your lisc. And sense your fishing I would assume there is a good chance you might have a fish somewhere in your boat. A good place for this is your livewell if you have one. So here is a no brainer. C/O asks “Can I look in your livewell?” Sure why not?

    I dont get it. If you got nothing to hide………..

    And how is this an invasion of anyones privacy? Your on public water. I understand that your in a private boat. But really lets make thier (C/O) job a little easier.

    I got check 3 times by the same group of C/O’s on Red on opener. BIG DEAL! They were only at boatside for about a minute.

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #598909

    Quote:


    As long as I can watch them search my possession (to ensure they don’t plant some thing ) why would you care.
    My 2 cents….this should ruffle some feathers…………

    Whatsa


    None ruffled here. Along with MY right to not be unlawfully searched without probable cause, you also have the right to free speech!

    As far as why would I care, if I am obeying the law then I see no reason for a warden to assume that I am not. Searching through my things for no legal reason is not acceptable to me.

    Tim

    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #598919

    Well sorry for another long post, but here is the opinion of the MN Supreme Court. I would read it very closely then each person can make their own educated guess about what their ‘rights’ are. Take a look at #5 and the couple sentences right before it. Although this doesn’t mean another case hasn’t gone to the MN Supreme Court and reversed this decision either. When I read this, it tells me that a CO can search areas used to transport fish…

    Having determined that the Fourth Amendment does not prohibit a limited inspection of Colosimo’s open boat, we must determine whether the statute under which Colosimo was convicted, Minn.Stat. § 97A.251, subd. 1(3), requires probable cause in order to undertake a search. The court of appeals read a probable cause requirement into Minn.Stat. § 97A.251, subd. 1(3). The statute provides:

    A person may not:
    (1) intentionally hinder, resist, or obstruct an enforcement officer, agent, or employee of the division in the performance of official duties;
    (2) refuse to submit to inspection of firearms while in the field, licenses, or wild animals; or
    (3) refuse to allow inspections of a motor vehicle, boat, or other conveyance used while taking or transporting wild animals.

    [4] We review questions of statutory interpretation de novo. Burkstrand v. Burkstrand, 632 N.W.2d 206, 209 (Minn.2001). The court of appeals interpreted this statute to require the state to prove, as a predicate to the crime of refusal to allow inspection, that the officer had probable cause of a violation. We disagree. The statute at issue provides a conservation officer the authority to inspect a boat or other conveyance FN2 used “while taking or transporting wild animals.” Minn.Stat. § 97A.215, subd. 1(3). This statute makes no mention of a requirement that the officer have probable cause in order to undertake the inspection. The court of appeals, operating under the belief that attributing meaning to the plain wording of the statute would result in the statute violating the constitution, implied a probable cause requirement in order to uphold the statute. *9 State v. Colosimo, 648 N.W.2d 271, 274 (Minn.App.2002). The court of appeals supported their interpretation by referencing Minn.Stat. § 97A.215, subd. 1(b) (2002) which provides:

    FN2. Conveyance: “A means of carrying or transporting something.” See Webster’s International Dictionary 499 (3d ed.1993).

    When an enforcement officer has probable cause to believe that wild animals taken or possessed in violation of game and fish laws are present, the officer may:
    (1) enter and inspect any place or vehicle; and
    (2) open and inspect any package or container.

    We decline to interject a probable cause requirement into Minn.Stat. § 97A.251 merely because the legislature in Minn.Stat. § 97A.215, subd. 1(b)(1) granted conservation officers with probable cause the authority to “enter and inspect any place or vehicle.”

    [5] Our decision in this case does not grant conservation officers power beyond that of other law enforcement officers.FN3 Rather, the difference between the inspection permitted under the facts of this case and searches impermissible under the Fourth Amendment is that fishing is a largely recreational privilege that anglers choose to engage in with knowledge of the regulations governing their conduct. Our decision merely acknowledges that an expectation of privacy in all parts of an open boat or other conveyance, admittedly used to transport fish, is not reasonable. Therefore, a limited inspection of certain parts of the open boat would not be prohibited under the Fourth Amendment.FN4 As such, under the facts of this case, it was permissible for the conservation officer to conduct a lawful nonconsensual inspection of the areas of Colosimo’s open boat typically used to store or transport fish. By refusing to submit to the officer’s lawful request to inspect these areas of his open boat, Colosimo violated Minn.Stat. § 97A.251, subd. 1(3).

    FN3. Minnesota Statutes § 97A.205, which sets forth the powers of game and fish enforcement officers, provides, “Nothing in this section grants an enforcement officer any greater powers than other licensed peace officers.”

    FN4. Because Colosimo refused any search, we do not need to specifically delineate the limits of a legal search of an open boat.

    Reversed.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #598928

    I read that the same as the other document. Colosimo won his appeal.

    Basically what they are saying there is Minnesota Statutes § 97A.205 was unconstitutional.

    -J.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #598931

    To you guys “That have nothing to hide”…..

    “A good citizen should take his stand where the public authority marshals him.” –Thomas Jefferson to Mme D’Auville, 1790. ME 8:16

    -J.

    Craig Matter
    Hager City,Wi
    Posts: 556
    #598937

    Quote:


    Quote:


    As long as I can watch them search my possession (to ensure they don’t plant some thing ) why would you care.
    My 2 cents….this should ruffle some feathers…………

    Whatsa


    None ruffled here. Along with MY right to not be unlawfully searched without probable cause, you also have the right to free speech!

    As far as why would I care, if I am obeying the law then I see no reason for a warden to assume that I am not. Searching through my things for no legal reason is not acceptable to me.

    Tim


    I’d say if you were on a body of water fishing, or even towing your boat down the highway. There is a chance that you where fishing and you could have over harvested. P/C in my opinion shouldn’t be illegal to pull you over and checking your boat for fish right.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #598941

    That makes about as much sense as searching everyone who leaves a store to make sure they weren’t shoplifting!

    -J.

    Craig Matter
    Hager City,Wi
    Posts: 556
    #598957

    Quote:


    That makes about as much sense as searching everyone who leaves a store to make sure they weren’t shoplifting!

    -J.


    They do….that what the ink blotts are for. If you don’t pay for it the explode and you get ink all over……… how about everyone leaving a bar….. For drunk driving. Maybe we should. If it saves one 16 year old kids life. Would that bother you if you were pulled over and checked for drunk driving after leaving a bar,(police officer watches you leave) spent 5 minute of your life to knowing you are perfectly legal. What is the big deal with doing what is right. Or possible right.

    This all started with can they look in your live well for fish if you are out fishing??? HELLOOOOO I’m fishing. I sure would think they should have the right to check you for fish if you are fishing. Why is it OK to ask for a license? Because you need one to fish??? Then why should it infringe on your right if they check your live well to ensure you are following the laws….

    Whatsa

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #598959

    Thankfully the Constitution will never allow that to happen. It’s called Freedom.

    -J.

    Craig Matter
    Hager City,Wi
    Posts: 556
    #598961

    Never allow what to happen??

    I’m heading out fishing now so I’ll need to take this up later.

    nick
    Lakeville, MN
    Posts: 4977
    #598969

    I have to agree 100% With Jon, just because I have nothing to hide, doesn’t mean I going to give up my rights.

    You want to search anything of mine, better bring a warrant. Too many people I’ve know gave up the right only to end up fighting things out in court, when they could’ve just said no. I know of people that have had other people drop things in the cars/truck on accident that were found during searches that should’ve never happened or ever been consent too.

    Sure normally I’ll let the warden see the livewell, if I told him I have caught and kept fish, actually it rather irritates me when I get the full stop when I’ve wearing my life jacket, have my license and my throwable is out in the open… Do I honestly look like my year old boat doesn’t have a horn? Do you really think I took out the fire extinguisher? Go on and bother someone else.

    Again I have nothing to hide. I’ll always make sure my rights are maintained.

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #598991

    Quote:


    They do….that what the ink blotts are for. If you don’t pay for it the explode and you get ink all over………



    This is a new one on me….never heard of such a thing.With bank notes yes….

    Following your reasoning maybe we should just issue “papers” for all the law abiders saying where and what they can do,…..then set up roadblocks everywhere to make sure these “papers” are all in order….if not…off to jail….
    And while we’re at it, change our judical system to “guilty until you can prove your innocent”.

    Willeye
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 683
    #598992

    Did you notice that Mr. Colosimo himself is an attorney? Don’t know what effect that had on the whole thing, but I found that particular fact interesting.

    CR

    bigfritzzz
    hudson
    Posts: 70
    #599007

    are you trying to “ruffle some feathers”? cuz your doing a good job! you must not get stopped very often. i do most of my fishing on the croix where we get stopped from both sides of the river. washington cty, st.croix cty, sherrif and dnr, coast gaurd, state park nazis. its not unheard of to get checked multiple times in a day. it gets old! we, the fishermen, must be easy targets cuz we school up in bunches. they can just jump boat to boat writng tickets as they go. i avoid fishing the kinni because i dont want to go through the hassle of getting checked. does anyone know the deal with the park rangers down there? what authority do they have? in my opinion they should need probable cause to check and search your boat. i guess the good thing is ive learned to follow the rules to the letter on the croix.

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #599009

    The thing that bothers me the most is the idea that “fishing” is “probable cause”. Fishing is a perfectly normal legit activity and shouldn’t be an excuse for someone to tear my boat or truck apart to see if I was in possesion of any fish (and I’ve had that happen).

    Rootski

    fearnofish82
    Warroad/LOTW
    Posts: 387
    #599028

    I would say that i have no problem letting a CO check my livewell, as it would make their jobs easier and probally reduce poaching etc., HOWEVER, the problem is that if an inch is given, a mile will be taken. Similar to how we as sportsman need to be active to support the right to own and use all types of firearms, period. Giving in a little here and there will be the end to all in the long run.

    Craig Matter
    Hager City,Wi
    Posts: 556
    #599037

    I’ve been checked three times this year each time the CO was very polite and none of the checks took more than 5 minutes. The last time I was check was Sunday. Wi patrol pulled up check my license, asked if I was catching anything…checked the live well and was on his way…..not a big deal….

    If the patrol boat around the Kinni can jump from boat to boat and hand out tickets I guess a few people are not following the rules of the water…..When the CO check people I’d say they are trying to make the water safe for all people that are trying to enjoy the water. Have a few ruined it for all in that area…..maybe……the main thing is we do have laws and a lot of people don’t follow them

    For give me I guess they are a sensor that set off an alarm if you try to leave without paying. Not an ink blot but serves the same purpose.

    I did say above I’m sure I’d ruffle a few feathers. I do agree you should have the right to privacy, and I believe in the Constitution and I’m trying to get people to think out of the box a little when it come to protecting every one’s rights……I’m all for catching the bad guys and leaving the good and honest people alone……unfortunately in order to do that the honest and good people need to be open to the CO’s. If you tell a CO that you don’t want them looking in your live well I feel you look guilty.

    We have laws to protect us all and we all know that a lot of people abuse and break the law. All the CO needs to do is watch you from a distance and see if you wet a line. At that point I believe he has all the rights in the world to see if you are following the rules. Sorry if I’ve upset so many but when it comes to a sport that I enjoy so much….I think we should all have to follow the same rules that have been designed to protect our sport.

    Whatsa.

    Ohhh ya fishing was kind of slow tonight. We need some rain to get the river flowing again.

    flatfish
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2105
    #599093

    There have been many goods points brought up in this discussion. Bottom line, if your doing something illegal, your SCREWED!, and I couldn’t be happier.

    I’ve had many many encounters with wardens over the years, even before I was 16 growing up on the farm. We’d take the tractor to go hunting cause we never had a license. Fishing too. It’s was like, your fishing, must have a license. Not yet man.

    Now, I’ve shared the goose blinds with some of southern Minnesota’s finest. What a great bunch of guys. Tons of info, great callers, helpful. The CO’s are all a library of info where ever you are.

    20 years ago on Big Sandy lake, 2 great close friends and I were fishing, laughing and carrying on. Here comes the CO. Surely thinking we’re drunk. None of us drink a drop. Cooler full of diet pepsi, diet dew, and diet rootbeer. He couldn’t believe we could laugh and carry on like that and not be initoxicated! I willingly let him check what ever he wanted he wanted (except the length of you know what). Then I asked, where are all the walleye in this lake. Well he said your on one spot(I knew that), but he spilled about 6 other locations that were awesome. This was before most of us had GPS, but did have good depth finders.

    Think about hunting season as as CO. Nearly everyone is ARMED! Not the job I want. And with conceal carry, many have weapons in the boat. Just enjoy the expirence, and download all the info you can get from them. They know what’s happening out there.

    It’s not about the law, unless your breaking it, and then you’ll lose anyway, and that works for me.
    My hats off to them!

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #599096

    Tim that was the best reply in this whole thread!

    Quote:


    There have been many goods points brought up in this discussion. Bottom line, if your doing something illegal, your SCREWED!, and I couldn’t be happier.

    I’ve had many many encounters with wardens over the years, even before I was 16 growing up on the farm. We’d take the tractor to go hunting cause we never had a license. Fishing too. It’s was like, your fishing, must have a license. Not yet man.

    Now, I’ve shared the goose blinds with some of southern Minnesota’s finest. What a great bunch of guys. Tons of info, great callers, helpful. The CO’s are all a library of info where ever you are.

    20 years ago on Big Sandy lake, 2 great close friends and I were fishing, laughing and carrying on. Here comes the CO. Surely thinking we’re drunk. None of us drink a drop. Cooler full of diet pepsi, diet dew, and diet rootbeer. He couldn’t believe we could laugh and carry on like that and not be initoxicated! I willingly let him check what ever he wanted he wanted (except the length of you know what). Then I asked, where are all the walleye in this lake. Well he said your on one spot(I knew that), but he spilled about 6 other locations that were awesome. This was before most of us had GPS, but did have good depth finders.

    Think about hunting season as as CO. Nearly everyone is ARMED! Not the job I want. And with conceal carry, many have weapons in the boat. Just enjoy the expirence, and download all the info you can get from them. They know what’s happening out there.

    It’s not about the law, unless your breaking it, and then you’ll lose anyway, and that works for me.
    My hats off to them!


    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #599103

    Quote:


    It’s not about the law, unless your breaking it, and then you’ll lose anyway, and that works for me.


    b-curtis
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 1438
    #599143

    Just because we live in America and we have freedoms, you should not just assume that everything falls under the Fourth Amendment. I have posted a ton of info on this post showing that the MN Supreme Court said this was not a violation of the Fourth Amendment, yet nobody seems to read it and/or just keeps up talking about their rights?? Because there is so much confusion and disagreements on this subject I emailed the Appellate Clerk of Courts about this case and this is the response I got back:

    Quote:


    The Supreme Court reversed the COA and held the search was constitutional.


    Again, read this small little portion of the Supreme Court opinion:

    Quote:


    Our decision in this case does not grant conservation officers power beyond that of other law enforcement officers. Rather, the difference between the inspection permitted under the facts of this case and searches impermissible under the Fourth Amendment is that fishing is a largely recreational privilege that anglers choose to engage in with knowledge of the regulations governing their conduct. Our decision merely acknowledges that an expectation of privacy in all parts of an open boat or other conveyance, admittedly used to transport fish, is not reasonable. Therefore, a limited inspection of certain parts of the open boat would not be prohibited under the Fourth Amendment. As such, under the facts of this case, it was permissible for the conservation officer to conduct a lawful nonconsensual inspection of the areas of Colosimo’s open boat typically used to store or transport fish. By refusing to submit to the officer’s lawful request to inspect these areas of his open boat, Colosimo violated Minn.Stat. § 97A.251, subd. 1(3).


    Basically I think what they are saying if fishing is not a right but a privilege and once you buy the fishing license you agree to all the rules and regulations that have been set forth for the DNR COs, and those regulations say the CO can check your live well.

    This is just one case, but it sets a precedence that other cases are judged on. There may have already been a case since 2003 that has changed this precedence. Who knows? I didn’t find one. Maybe it is written someplace else that this does fall under the Fourth Amendment. I don’t know. I looked at court cases to determine what the opinion of the Supreme Court is. Maybe that is not correct place to look? And MrFritz raises a good question…are these rights only for the DNR or do the park rangers or one of the 20 other agencies patrolling the St. Croix have the same right to search the live well??

    One other point about this case is Colosimo refused all searches, so the supreme court did not have to rule on what ‘other conveyance’ used to transport fish mean, so I don’t know if this allows the CO to check your battery compartment for fish??

    This whole subject is a very gray area. I bet there are many COs out there that don’t know if they can or cannot check your live well with your permission. It sure seems like it is easier to just let them look. If you are so concerned about your rights, I am sure there are many other areas in society that a person can take a stand on than to worry about protecting their live well.

    So take this info, believe it or not, and deal with the COs any way you want. If you want to stand there and pound your chest talking about your god given rights as an American, go ahead. I will open the cover to my live well.

    chippee
    sw wi
    Posts: 488
    #599174

    the bad guys are using our frame of mind on privacy to do what they do and get away with it. we basically have two choices, we defend our rights and add fuel to a poachers defense or we give a little and hopefully rid the waters of a few poachers. my biggest complaint of being checked is being checked on the water which may sound weird but to me it is an inconvience and in one instance i was on a shallow bite and any outboard noise would completely shut down the bite. well here comes the wardens idling in leaving the motor idling the whole time we were checked and then taking off, the bite was off. wouldnt they get a lot more cooperation and offend people less, and maybe even catch a few more people if they sat at landings and checked people as they left instead of intruding on peoples time on the water.

    bigfritzzz
    hudson
    Posts: 70
    #599234

    i agree with you, nothing worse than getting checked while you are in the process of trying to land a muskie! happened last summer. they actually pulled up to my boat and tried to tie up to us during the battle! my fishing partner POLITELY told them to give us a little space. they did back off for a couple minutes, but what a joke! by the time they finished checking everything it was dark and the bite was done for the night. the stop took 20 minutes at least.

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