Do you have to show a warden your live well?

Hypothetical situation, you’re on the water and approached by a warden doing routine checks of boats. They check for all necessary gear (pfd’s, fishing license, etc) If they ask to see inside your live well are you required by law to show them? Just curious what a person’s rights are in a situation like that. Would it matter if you were on the water versus if you were pulled over on the road or on land at the launch? Do they need probable cause to search without a warrant or your permission? Just curious.

In Minnesota, no. They need a seach warrant or probable cause to search you or your boat.

-J.

I know a lot of people don’t like to do those types of things if they don’t have to since the law does not require them to. However, if you are doing nothing wrong what is the point of giving the co/police a reason to find somthing to tag you for. They are just doing a job!

Bill

Quote:

---

I know a lot of people don’t like to do those types of things if they don’t have to since the law does not require them to. However, if you are doing nothing wrong what is the point of giving the co/police a reason to find somthing to tag you for. They are just doing a job!

Bill

---

Agreed. Being a CPO has to suck a lot, so why make things worse. Imagine having to check people all day instead of fishing and having to deal with idiot hunters during shotgun season instead of enjoying it themselves.

I am all for them checking my livewell if it means they will be checking other peoples livewells and finding poachers. I know that I have nothing to hide… anymore

Once upon a time, “probable cause” did get me in trouble. A warden stopped my buddies and I fishing on Crosslake and after checking our life jackets, fire extinguisher, etc., he searched our cooler. The only “probable cause” he needed was that we were 4 18 year olds in a boat, so there was no way in the world there wasn’t beer in that cooler.

His suspicions were confirmed upon searching the cooler. He quickly confiscated the beer and handed out $140 tickets. Since we didn’t go to court, they didn’t need the beer as evidence, I wonder whatever happened to it

Jon,

If they see you fishing, does that establish probable cause? Or if you have fishing gear in plain sight in your boat?

John

Quote:

---

I am all for them checking my livewell if it means they will be checking other peoples livewells and finding poachers. I know that I have nothing to hide… anymore

---

Right on bro.

I can’t imagine something that would delay your return to fishing more than giving a CO a hard time while he/she was doing a license check.

I’ll tell you what I do when I’m stopped, which happens several times each year:

I greet the officer politely.
I have my license and boat registration in hand.
I open my livewell and tell the officer what fish I have in possession, if any.
I offer to show him/her any fish that I have.
I answer any questions they have politely.
I thank them for their time and their service to the resource as they leave.

I’m back fishing no more than a couple of minutes after I am stopped. Nothing could be easier.

Unfortunately some CRACK Head sued and Won in court so the CO”s are hand cuffed and can’t enforce the common sense laws of the past.
Example: they now have to knock on a poacher or fish and game violators door in order to enter and check for illegal activity.

Popcorn ordered….

Quote:

---

Jon,

If they see you fishing, does that establish probable cause? Or if you have fishing gear in plain sight in your boat?

---

Sure. If fishing season is closed. In other words, they need probable cause to believe you have broken the law.

-J.

Some CPO’s are a pain in the , but I’ve gone on patrols with a couple. Idiot has an entire new meaning after that. In one particular event, of the 500 stocked trout in a State Park, over 100 were in his freezer as evidence. There were signs every couple hundred feet that said no fishing until sunrise Saturday, but 20% of the fish were in his freezer by friday night. That is why they do their job. Just use some common sense and they’ll be on their way.

It’s always good to be courteous and cooperative. Treat them with respect and you’ll get the same in return (99.5% of the time).

I’ve even received some good information on the bite from CO’s when I’ve asked how other anglers have been doing. Last summer a CO actually pointed out an area within a few hundreds yards of where he was checking me. I headed over there and caught some nice fish.

CR

PART OF THEIR JOB IS TO CHECK FOR ILLEGAL FISH, TOO MANY ETC. THAT SHOULD OPEN THE LIVEWELL, AT LEAST IN WI.

Quote:

---

Unfortunately some CRACK Head sued and Won in court so the CO”s are hand cuffed and can’t enforce the common sense laws of the past.
Example: they now have to knock on a poacher or fish and game violators door in order to enter and check for illegal activity.

Popcorn ordered….

---

His name was Criss (crispy)G. and he is now if the federal pen,they raided his house shortly after he won in court and found him cooking up the Meth again.I don’t mind the livewell check at all ,but am glad he fought it so you dont have to leave your shack unlocked while your sleeping or sexing the wife and all her girlfriends

Hypothetical. I’m out trout fishing minding my own business, and maybe I’ve kept a few fish for the pan, but I put them in a plastic bag and keep them in my vest (which I do when I bonk a few). Can they search my vest or do they need a warrant for that also? Or can they just claim probable cause and searche me?

Just saying….

D.A.

PS Who doesn’t like the “you can’t check my livewell” rule a bit.

I agree with Jason’s post a 100%. Let them check you quickly and go catch the bad guys!!

Guys, don’t take my answers the wrong way. It was a hypothetical question.

The point is you have a Constitutional Right to privacy. You it or lose it.

Let’s relate the same situation to driving. You are licensed to drive on a public road. Same as fishing on a public water. Can a cop pull you over to check your drivers license and search you just because you are driving? No. They need probable cause to pull you over.

I’m all for CO’s doing their job. But do the job, don’t just go out there “Fishing” for a bust. We need more CO’s. That is the problem. Not me minding my own business.

-J.

Careful with your thinking. It was in the process of being overturned, and I will look it up, but I believe they overturned the decision allowing them to again look in the livewell without permission. I will try to post what I find! Supreme Court Justice Alan Paige will be the demise of law enforcement in this state if he continues to be voted in each election

Quote:

---

The point is you have a Constitutional Right to privacy. You it or lose it.

---

Actually if you look through the whole Constitution you won’t see the word “privacy’ in there anywhere. What we do have is a right against unreasonable searches.

Just because I’m fishing doesn’t mean I’m drinking, drunk, poaching, cheating, or breaking any other law. I have had law enforcement of several different stripes single me out because I was fishing so I have to wonder.

I do agree with Jason however that the easiest way to get back to the fishing is to cooperate with them and do what they ask (even if I don’t like it).

Rootski

Quote:

---

I know a lot of people don’t like to do those types of things if they don’t have to since the law does not require them to. However, if you are doing nothing wrong what is the point of giving the co/police a reason to find somthing to tag you for. They are just doing a job!

---

Wow, I have to disagree strongly here guys. So much depends on circumstance. I started a very similar topic to this during spring fishing and was amazed at how many people are so willing to blindly give up their rights merely out of convenience. If the warden is polite and friendly then I see no problem with cooperation. However if the officer is like the JERKS we met in Nekoosa then things can change quickly. Bottom line probable cause is needed, period. If the warden see’s you place fish in the well, that’s cause. Most times they ask if you’ve caught fish. From there how many you’ve kept. Once you answer the quantity number they have cause.

I look at it like this. They have a job to do. So do other law enforcement officers. If a local cop comes to your front door and asks to check your house for illegal “widgets” will you openly let them in? After all they have a job to do. Not me! Not without a fair explanation. Same goes for fishing. If the officer/warden is being an unreasonable jerk then I have rights and I will exercise them. Someone said it above either use your rights or lose them.

I have not been checked by a CO in about 10yrs. In fact I have never been asked to open my livewell either. I must like a person that can’t catch any fish. (Partially true)

Almost got checked Sturgeon fishing but the CO decided not to when we told him if he wanted to see AUDEMPS license he would have to pull it out of his pocket himself. He had a 50+ inch Sturgeon on the line and was a little busy.

The Co was not so interested in doing that. So we pointed out that he should go check the shady characters in the boat just south of us(Larry and Shamu)and he headed right down and checked them out. We also told him to make sure and check there livewell.
It was funny. You had to be there.

I typically have a good time with them…once they figure out I’m a smart azz.
Couple weeks ago Stuart and I were out on P4 when two CO’s were motoring by. We were anchor close to shore and I think because I kept staring at them…they came over…to see if Stuart was ok.

Upon arrival…I found them to be very uncooperative. I had my license ready and when I handed mine to them I asked them if they would cuff Stuart and take him away…because he didn’t have a license. Well, much to my dismay..Stuart did and they wouldn’t take him.

So they asked if we caught any fish..Stuart told the truth…”none” and I went on to embellish about how great a fisherman I was and alllll the fish I caught that day.

So they asked if they could look in the live well…I said sure! …since my live well is my garbage can. Then they wanted to look into my bait cooler!
I think they were a bit disappointed to see all them little bullheads.

Anyway…they left after a bit more chit chat..and left Stuart with me…did I mention that?

The were two professional guys that, I feel did there job…although they were a bit ugly looking. (hope you don’t read this Tyler… )

My bottom line is… Life is to short to get too worked up about a CO looking in my live well..I try to do whats right..with or without the laws…hypothetically speaking of course.

I’m surprised they didn’t arrest Stuart for criminally poor judgment in associates!!!!

Give them the right to search your livewell without a search warrent, then whats next-the glove box in your pickup? Then the underwear drawer at your house. But Brian,
I have nothing to hide you say. Whats next? What other freedoms are you willing to give up because you weren’t doing nothing wrong or have nothing to hide.
Tell them to urine off and get a warrent. If you don’t some day the government will be looking through your old lady’s underwear drawer. F’em!

Love,
Brian

I generally try to act as a mirror. That is I reflect the attitude and courtesy the CO shows. If he is polite and courtious, so am I. If he pulls up and starts barking orders and making demands, I get a little more defiant.

One particular stop the CO said “open the livewell”. I replied, “are you asking to see my fish, or telling me your searching my boat?” He suddenly changed his tune and said, “mind if I look at your fish?” to wich I politely opend the livewell and held up the one and only 16″ walleye I had in my possession.

Quote:

---

Give them the right to search your livewell without a search warrent,

---

No, no…I don’t want them to have the right…but when they ask…I don’t have any issues. Heck if I would think of it…and didn’t have garbage in my live well…I would have it open a head of time.

Isn’t it great that each one of use has the “right” to choose how we would handle this type of situation?

I guess I also am on the other side of the fence than most of the posters here. I am VERY cautious and unwilling to give up any of my rights and freedoms. If we nonchalantly give them up because ‘it makes no difference’, ……then I fear those freedoms will be chipped away until we don’t have a leg to stand on any more.

Much like wade – I will probably(but not always) comply with a request – but I sure as hell am unafraid to utilize my rights. Too many gallons of blood were spilled by our servicemen over the years to give away what they fought for.

I police myself with staying legal – I don’t need some jack-booted thug running the scope up my butt to verify that. But then again, I have been described as a crumudgeon…….

Tim

How in world can a CO do his job if he can not look in a live well. He can’t!!

Quote:

---

I generally try to act as a mirror. That is I reflect the attitude and courtesy the CO shows.

---

The best way I can think of to describe my actions as well, thank you.

Quote:

---

How in world can a CO do his job if he can not look in a live well. He can’t!!

---

Very easy. Observation. They can watch you from shore or another boat. They cannot simply come up out of the blue and pry open your livewell or any other storage area under the guise of “just doing my job”. Like I said above the local cop also has a job, to keep drugs off the street. He can’t just come into your house and look through your plastic bags now can he?

I’ve posted these two Minnesota cases before to a similar question.

Quote:

---

The fish house:
Court of Appeals of Minnesota.
STATE of Minnesota, Appellant,
v.
Marvin Russell LARSEN, Respondent.
No. C5-01-980.
Dec. 26, 2001.

Defendant, who was charged with petty misdemeanor possession of marijuana and fishing with an extra line, moved to suppress evidence obtained as a result of a warrantless search of a fish house. The District Court, Rice County, Gerald Wolf, J., granted defendant’s motion and dismissed charges. State appealed . The Court of Appeals, Randall, J., held that: (1) fish house was dwelling in which defendant had a legitimate expectation of privacy; (2) fact that fish house was located on public waters controlled by state did not alter occupant’s expectation of privacy; and (3) conservation officers are subject to same constitutional constraints as other law enforcement officers in performance of their duties.
Affirmed.

Refusing CO to check live well or transported fish:
Supreme Court of Minnesota.
STATE of Minnesota, Petitioner, Appellant,
v.
John Mark COLOSIMO, Respondent.
No. C7-01-2181.
Sept. 25, 2003.

Defendant was convicted in the District Court, St. Louis County, Jeffry S. Rantala, J., of refusal to allow inspection of a boat. Defendant appealed. The Court of Appeals, 648 N.W.2d 271, Hanson, J., reversed. State appealed. The Supreme Court, Gilbert, J., held that: (1) defendant was not “seized” for purposes of the Fourth Amendment when conservation officer approached his open boat while it rested on the trailer of a parked portage truck and asked defendant if he and his group had caught any fish; (2) nonconsensual warrantless search of areas of defendant’s open boat where fish were typically transported was not prohibited by Fourth Amendment; and (3) conservation officer was not required to have probable cause to conduct a limited warrantless inspection of defendant’s boat.
Reversed.

---

As you can see in the second case, the defendant was convicted, then the court of appeals reversed it, then the supreme court reversed it again. I’m no lawyer but it seems according to this, the CO can check your livewell without a warrant or probable cause.