Clown Feet and Red Noses

With the passing of absurd fishing contest fees here in Minnesota, we have become the laughing stock of the Bass fishing world. They might as well had passed a law making us wear clown feet and red noses while fishing. Did you know that 49 DNR staff claimed hundreds of hours attributable to fishing contests? For a total of $65,000 in staff time and another $43,000 in administrative overhead. Am I shocked? Most of this overhead was pre-existing and paid for many times over with Game and Fish funds. Here are a couple of links to articles that I have recently contributed to:

http://wcco.com/politics/local_story_211221840.html

http://www.startribune.com/outdoors/story/1321972.html

Quote:

---

They might as well had passed a law making us wear clown feet and red noses while fishing.

---

I’m going to have to start keeping up on this…I thought that law was passed when Sloppy started fishing MN tourneys.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fishing/tournaments/regulations.html

Brian, all you’ll need is the clown feet, and you’re all set

Laughing stock? I think that’s a little extreme. I honestly can’t understand all the hubbub. Take your standard smaller tournament. 50 boats. On-site weigh-in. Permit = $120. Divided by 50 equals what, $2.40. Less than a gallon of gas. The cost of half a crankbait. Big deal.

I fish plenty of walleye tournaments every year, small ones and big ones. Are the organizers going to pass that additional expense on to me? Probably. Am I going to wince when I sign the check for my entry? No more than I do already. All of us tournament guys know that the entry is a SMALL SMALL portion of the expense of fishing the tournment, with gas, lodging, meals, time off of work, equipment maintenance and replacement being the primary expenses. If another $2.40 is going to keep you from fishing tournaments, so be it. It’s not going to stop me!

If we teamed up Jason…we would have an act!

I ‘spose I should let this die…but….

I don’t fish the tourney scene…and since it’s all included in a days work for the DNR…am having a hard time understanding the thought behind charging anything extra than what we…the tax payers and fishing license buyers are paying already. Don’t really matter if it’s $2.40 or one penny. The DNR is already paid for.

I’ve never claimed to be smart…although call a smart a@@ many a time…but using this thought process…shouldn’t the census takers on Mille Lacs be charging this back to the fisherman on Mille Lacs? Toss a quarter into the bucket everytime we access the lake?

If the DNR said…We are haveing too many tourneys for the good of the fish population or we are starting a fee system because the public doesn’t want as many as we are having on MN lakes…I could understand the fees.

Now where did I put my red hair?

Jason, $2.40 doesn’t sound like much does it. But what if you had to pay this everytime you launched or went to the grocery store? My concern is that MN has raised or created fees for all types of existing services, camping, parking, hunting, and now fishing contests.

If you ran a 50 boat weekend tournament, how often do you think you would go home with a $400 profit after expenses, staff, lodging, food and gas? Or are you going to walk around the morning of the tournament and try to collect $2.40 -$4.00 from each particapant. Remember these fees need to be paid in in full, no refund at the time the permit is issued. Usually a year before the event.

Also, these fees are a little like Pandora’s box. I expect to see Sheriff’s departments, Upper MISS Refuge, city parks and township ramps to all want a piece of the pie.

quit your wining and get over it already, i think these fee’s are not that high and if we are the laughing stock of the bass world who cares.

This is what it’s going to be like to fish in MN if the guys who care don’t stop their “whining” (check your spelling).

MN Fishing License: $21 Dollars (?)

Road Toll : $1.50

County Park Fee: $5.00

Launch Fee: $7.00

Parking Fee: $4.00

Using the big motor fee: $3.50

Using 3 pole fee: $2.84

Live Bait Permit: $3.25

Fee to keep a limit of fish: $11.95

Bait Disposal Fee: $4.33

Restocking Fee: $3.50

Catch and Release Fee: $1.99

Weed removal fee: $4.30

Livewell and boat clensing fee: $2.21

Where does it end? What else can you guys think of for fees? lol

Quote:

---

I don’t fish the tourney scene…and since it’s all included in a days work for the DNR…am having a hard time understanding the thought behind charging anything extra than what we…the tax payers and fishing license buyers are paying already. Don’t really matter if it’s $2.40 or one penny. The DNR is already paid for.

---

Brian, I respectfully disagree. Our license fees pay for a myriad of programs that benefit ALL license holders. Population surveys, habitat work, stocking, enforcement, etc. Joe Blow who buys a license to go catch a few sunnies for dinner shouldn’t have to subsidize the activities of a very limited slice of the fishing population, namely the tournament angler. I don’t have the least bit of trouble with a tournament angler user fee….that’s what this turns out to be. Do you own a boat? You pay a user fee (registration tabs). Do you own a car? You pay a user fee (tabs). I see this as no different. Don’t want to payu the user fee? Then sell your boat and car, and quit fishing tournaments. In this day of a general public demand to keep general taxes low, government entities forego general taxes and instead apply targeted user fees. You gotta pay to play.

Quote:

---

$2.40 doesn’t sound like much does it. But what if you had to pay this everytime you launched or went to the grocery store? .

---

Vern, I do pay many times that I launch. On my home waters of Lake Wissota, I buy a State Park Sticker and a sticker that allows me to launch at a VERY GOOD QUALITY AND SAFE private launch. I have no problem paying a little bit to get access to safe, deep launches that are supervised and monitored so that my car and all of my belongings are safe when I return. How many stories have you read about cars and trailers being vandalized at launches in the cities? Or up at Mille Lacs. That’s a few bucks well spent, and again, those few bucks are a tiny fraction of what I spend to go fishing for a day (with gas at $3 and leeches nearly $20 per pound).

Quote:

---

My concern is that MN has raised or created fees for all types of existing services, camping, parking, hunting, and now fishing contests

---

Yep, and this will continue as long as there is public outcry to keep general taxes (sales or income) low. You gotta pay to play.

As you read these replies, remember that they are coming from AN ACTIVE TOURNAMENT ANGLER.

Quote:

---

Using 3 pole fee: $2.84

---

$2.84? Is that it? Where do I pay?

Today’s fee increase example, just announced; the fee for making an overnight trip into the Boundary Waters Canoe Area will increase from $10 to $16 per adult, and from $5 to $8 per child (0 to 17 years).

I’m just going to borrow a little snippet from Nick Coleman’s piece in today’s Star Trib. He’s talking about the bridge tragedy which is totally unrelated to tournaments, but the context is the same: budgetary decisions made by policymakers.

Quote:

---

For half a dozen years, the motto of state government and particularly that of Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been No New Taxes. It’s been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed.

---

Quote:

---

Both political parties have tried to govern on the cheap, and both have dithered and dallied and spent public wealth on stadiums while scrimping on the basics.

---

Governing on the cheap, “no new taxes”, are the reasons you and I (well, maybe not you) will be paying increased entry fees and BWCA fees next year. If you’re unhappy about it, tell your elected officials to start spending their (your) money more wisely, and to not be afraid to ask for more if it is really needed.

Sportsman just use too much of the state’s resources so they got to pay to play. Just thank any god you like you do not live in Illinois and go hand a 10 spot to some overworked bureaucrat and say, “thanks”.

Quote:

---

With the passing of absurd fishing contest fees here in Minnesota, we have become the laughing stock of the Bass fishing world.

---

And why should fishing contests be any different than Minnesota’s football teams (Gophers and Vikings)? Sorry Sandbar and Vikefan..

MN Fishing License: $21 Dollars
Road Toll : $1.50
County Park Fee: $5.00
Launch Fee: $7.00
Parking Fee: $4.00
Using the big motor fee: $3.50
Using 3 pole fee: $2.84
Live Bait Permit: $3.25
Fee to keep a limit of fish: $11.95
Bait Disposal Fee: $4.33
Restocking Fee: $3.50
Catch and Release Fee: $1.99
Weed removal fee: $4.30
Livewell and boat clensing fee: $2.21

A weekend fishing without being buzzed by a bunch of tournament contestants . . . Priceless

How about a water depth charge for if you fish the river where dams are involved. They could charge you by the foot on how deep the river stage is. Also they could charge you for flow rate based on their “measurements” at the dam!

I probably shouldn’t have even put this out there,some politician looking to make a buck might see it.

Quote:

---

For half a dozen years, the motto of state government and particularly that of Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been No New Taxes. It’s been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed.

---

Quote:

---

Both political parties have tried to govern on the cheap, and both have dithered and dallied and spent public wealth on stadiums while scrimping on the basics.

---

I don’t want to start anything political here and this is a little off the subject. But I can understand why Pawlenty doesn’t want to raise taxes. MN is already top 5 in the country in total taxes. MN shouldn’t have a goal of being the highest taxed state in the nation. Sounds to me that our tax money is incorrectly distributed. I wonder where all the money goes?

As for the tournament fees, I agree with Jason. It is only a couple dollars so stop complaining. It is an absurd argument to say that because they are raising the tournament cost that the DNR is going to start inventing fees. I already pay a fee at most ramps. I figure it is part of the cost. If I don’t want to pay, I guess I don’t get to go fishing. And the cost of everything goes up. I truly don’t believe that they raised the cost for the BWCA just to screw the users but to handle new costs. Maybe I am naive.

The bass guys sure have a “poor me” complex. Maybe if you didn’t have 40k-50k rigs you could afford the couple extra dollars. Besides, does anybody really care in MN about harming the bass population? I’m sure the fees are an attempt to protect the walleyes!

p.s. Those are just jokes at the end there. Ya bass guys don’t need to get all worked up.

I would venture a guess that most readers of this thread, maybe even Vern, don’t realize something about how the MN DNR has become deeply involved in tournaments.

This year, at 3 of the 4 FLW Walleye tournaments that I fished (the full MN league circuit and the tour event on Pool 4), there was a LARGE contingent (perhaps 8-10?) of DNR fisheries personnel doing livewell checks (for dissolved oxygen and temperature) and conducting angler interviews of nearly every angler, asking about time, location, and handling of the catch. They may have been at the 4th too, but I zeroed in that event ( ), so nobody talked to me. IT TAKES RESOURCES to take these fisheries personnel away from their normal routine (whatever that might be…habitat, surveys, stocking, etc) and station them at tournament sites to collect tournament-relevant information, and then go back and process that information to help make more informed decisions about the timing and locations of future tournaments. These fees are not just being thrown down a rathole. They will make tournaments better and more sustainable in the future.

First off Jason, you are not a Minnesota resident so of course you are not opposed to a new tax here!

The “It’s only a few bucks” argument don’t fly with me. It’s a slippery slope. I’d rather see the DNR just dump the idea of trying to regulate tournament fishing all together if it’s too expensive for them. Either pay for it under the current budget or let the local authorities deal with it on a local level. Does the government charge a fee for golf tournament permits? How about bowling? Tennis anyone? Oh wait – let’s not give them another idea!!!

I pay my license fee to fish. Be that for recreation or in a tournament. Don’t slap another fee on me just because it’s the same activity, just under another premise.

I predict this fee will go the way of the ice fishing shelter license.

-J.

Oh, and one other thing that sticks me in the ribs the wrong way about this whole deal. Don’t impose a new tax on me un-announced. This should have been tossed out to the public for comment long before it was imposed. Nearly every tax increase here in Mn is given an opportunity for public comment. I hate it when the first time I hear of a new tax is when it has already been passed into law!

-J.

Quote:

---

Does the government charge a fee for golf tournament permits? How about bowling? Tennis anyone?

---

It is funny that I never saw any DNR staff in my local bowling alley or at any golf course.
I am sure I am going to get toasted for this one but I think I have to agree with Jason. I think tournament fees should not come from the general fund. Does everyone that buys licenses fish tournaments? In fact there are many invite tournaments that the average Joe could not even fish if they wanted to. So to take the money for tournaments from the general fund does not seem right either.
To say the state is the laughing stock of the bass world is just a dumb response. If you don’t like it go to another state and have your tournament!
I will end by saying that I have fished tournaments and I will continue to. I will pay the extra fee and be glad to know we have one of the best fishing states in the nation.

“Does everyone that buys licenses fish tournaments?”. Not everyone fishes for Walleyes, yet Walleye stocking is a major expenditure of MN general license fees. I don’t have a problem with the DNR recouping some dollars for time, but it is the way they went about it and fee schedule they are using. Personally I’d like to see a tournament stamp, that you purchase at the time of getting your license. One of the things the DNR doesn’t know, is how many anglers fish tournaments in MN. I’m thinking for Bass and Walleye it is a smaller number then most think. I’d say it is fewer than 3,000. (Not including ice fishing contests)

Another idea for keeping fees fair between events would be to base the fee on some percentage of the pay-out. Right now 50-75-100 boat events all pay $400 each, regardless of the amount of the entry fees or number of boats or participants. It will be interesting to see how Wisconsin resolves this issue for their anglers, and what the comments will be then. Hopefully discussions like this will get more WS tournament fishermen to comment and get involded with the new currently unfolding WS rules package.
Vern

It’s going to be a tournament directors headache. Say the TD wants to apply for a 100 boat max permit. Not knowing how many will actually enter. If only 50 enter, how is the TD suppose to pass on the fee? Does the fee get paid before or after the event? Actual number of participants or number applied for on the permit? And I agree that it should be based on the entry fee and payout. Not a standard base fee. What about charity events, club events that raise non-profit funds? This thing will be a huge pain in this butt for TD’s. Not well thought out by the DNR.

-J.

Quote:

---

Does the government charge a fee for golf tournament permits? How about bowling? Tennis anyone?

---

“technically”, they should charge a fee for the golf tournaments.

Here is why:
Due to the “added traffic” of the tournament over normal “recreational” golfing, it requires more water and more chemicals to maintain the landscape.

Being that increased water is demanded, that puts a hurt on our water resources.

Being that increased chemicals are applied to the soil to maintain the lawns, then that is additional pollutants, that too, should be “regulated” by the DNR.

“Truthfully”, it should be no different. It is a “natural resource” that is being used for money. The true differnce is one is private owned, the other is public property.

It is my understanding that I need to pay the fees ($400) this fall when I send in my 2008 permit application. No refunds once the permit is issued. So, since we usually draw 60 boats, it will be $400 per event, even if next year only 40 boats sign up. I image the 2008 entry fees will need to be surcharged, payable when you send your entry fees in.

As far as charitable organizations, I’m hearing the DNR discussing this topic in terms of Federal 501_C3 organizations. This would be a problem since many fishing groups are 501-C4’s or 501-C2’s. A 501-C3 designation is actually more about an organization’s political lobbying abilities, then it is about their charitable status. Another consideration might be if the tournament is listed on the State Attorney Generals list of charitable organizations. This might be what they use for the new venison donation program

What about groups that hold fund raising events for the Children’s Miracle or St. Judes or benefits for sick kids or family medical expenses? Would a benefit tournament need to hire an attorney and spend thousands of dollars to become a 501-C3

Quote:

---

Ya bass guys don’t need to get all worked up.

---

I don’t see any of us getting worked up…

I know Dave! I was going to use your name in my first post…but thought it would be more fun to get Sloppy in there. I should have stuck with you.

See ya at the Warner Dock tourney?