Three words you cannot say to Michael Vick anymore

http://www.madison.com/redirect.php?type=newstool&id=202346
This is what Packers receiver Robert Furgason has to say about Vick’s actions

The sponsors are starting to drop like flies.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19999259/

Pls don’t forget, it’s not the dog but the owner. Just b/c they can, 99.9999% of them won’t (people loyal to the end). Pit bulls are just another breed. Mine’s the sweetest pup, slobbers on the neighbors kids until their soaked.

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Pls don’t forget, it’s not the dog but the owner. Just b/c they can, 99.9999% of them won’t (people loyal to the end). Pit bulls are just another breed. Mine’s the sweetest pup, slobbers on the neighbors kids until their soaked.

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I know what you are saying, what you are fighting is public opinion.
I love dogs. All dogs.
I do worry about a few breeds though, Rotts, Pit Bulls, Doberman, etc.
I understand that most are great pets, it is just the way that they are perceived in the news, movies, and TV. I am wondering every-time I am around one of those breeds, will it bite me OR my kids this time. That is never crosses my mind when I am around a Lab, Pointer, Golden, Etc.
I do have friends that have Rotts and Pit Bulls, I know that they are great family dogs but I still worry.
Plus it’s not like you hear of dog fights with Labs

I hear ya. There not a dog for everyone. Especially people who don’t know how to handle a dog with a “strong” personality. Especially for people who want a dog cause they look tough.

If I had kids, I’d be particularly concerned around any large dogs, but especially dogs with the “bad rep”.

What chaps my stones, though, is the new and increasing trends of dog specific legislation. Thats a nice way of saying pit bull bans city or county wide. It’s the same mentality as gun control legislation based on the idea that guns are causing the shootings.

My point is…
guns dont shoot people, people shoot people

pit bulls aren’t bad dogs (exactly the opposite), they just have bad owners

Yeah, we walk our german shepherd and we have people go to the other side of the street or get very nervous around him. I just assume people think that since shepherds are police dogs that they are dangerous. Does this dog look like he is going to harm anybody (I still won’t recommend breaking into our house)?

As for those gentle dog breeds, I have seen some very aggressive Labs and I know a little girl who is going to have scars on her face the rest of her life from a Golden. Just like humans, some dogs are born with a screw loose. But for the most part the personality of a dog comes from its owner.

One of Mr. Vick’s co-defendants just pleaded guilty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20035354/

I would guess that a new level of details that will round out Mr. Vick’s level of involvement are just around the corner.

Unless his buddies fall on the sword for him. Money does strange things.

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Unless his buddies fall on the sword for him. Money does strange things.

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I fully expect that to happen.

I’m hoping they prove me wrong though.

my first impression of this is the guy will turn on Vick like 3 week old limburger cheese. he’ll testify against him to get immunity or a much reduced sentence. Vick is the only dude with deep pockets in this mess. I predict his “boys” will leave him twisting in the wind. if he was going to fall on a sword for him he wouldn’t have cut a deal with the Feds imho. it’s a classic gov’t ploy. scare the crap out of the weakest one and have him turn state’s evidence.

I would like to think you are right, and really hope you are.
It just seems that when you have the kind of money and fame that he does, and people like him…the playing field is not as level as if it were you or me. BUT! It sure seems that the court of public opinion has it in for him! Not like the OJ deal here! So maybe I am wrong on this one.
Let’s see what the facts say. He may be completely innocent!

the Feds are expected to release some more info that ties Vick directly with financing this whole deal and can prove his attendance at several of the dogfights. i predict Mr Vick is in a whole heap o’trouble.

If they can provide that kind of info, I hope he gets banned from the NFL for life.

I’m having a hard time justifying the burning at the stake mentality here. What he did was very wrong, assuming he is guilty. However what about all the other criminals in the NFL or NBA?? Didn’t see the linch mob for Ray Lewis did you?? He was involved with a murder of a human being. What about that running back that was selling large amounts of drugs??? Can’t recall his name right now, but I’m pretty sure he is still an active player in the NFL.

If you guys expect Vick to get treated worse for hurting some dogs, I think you are sadly mistaken. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve to be punished, but this will be drug out for a long time by his attorneys and will eventually blow over. I’m predicting one year out of the NFL for Ron Mexico.

I would agree with you about the other criminals. But they were found not guilty, either because of being a celebrity or they really were not involved. Here is a book that talks about the criminals in the NFL.

book link

If I recall, there is a complete chapter on the Vikings under Green. And here are some of the examples from the book (the book is from 1999).

Cornelius Bennett–rape and sexual assault; Cortez Kennedy–domestic violence; Michael Irvin–cocaine and marijuana possession; Nate Newton–sexual assault; Warren Moon–domestic violence; Jake Plummer–sexual abuse; Andre Rison–aggravated assault; Bruce Smith–driving under the influence; and Deion Sanders–aggravated assault, disorderly convict, trespassing, and battery.

I also think this is the “new” NFL and some of the stuff players got away with in the past wouldn’t happen today. I think many of them would have taken long suspensions in today’s NFL

As I said in an earlier post, many people see abusing animals the same as abusing kids because both are denfenseless. People should get as worked up about violence against other humans as much as they do against animals. I would hope if the charge was for abusing a child people would be as angry as they are about this case.

Vick does deserve his day in court, but it doesn’t look too good for him. This trial will be a tad different than most of the other trials. This isn’t some kangaroo court like the trials in California were each member of the jury actually needs to be present at the actual murder for them to maybe find the person guilty. This is a federal case and they rarely lose. I think it will be hard for this to be dragged out. There is a reason it is called the “rocket docket” district. The defense has already been given their extension; 8 weeks. Not the year or so they were probably looking for.

From what I have read the guy who pleaded guilty worked as Vick’s agent in purchasing the equipment. He is not pleading guilty to fall on the sword for Vick. He is cooperating with the feds.

just my .02 cents.

Ray Lewis being involved in a fatal shooting in Atlanta is light years away from brutalizing defenseless animals. Guns were drawn by both parties in that fight. Lewis was acquited.
Electrocution, rape stands, break sticks, drowning, shooting are all words associated in treatment of these dogs. I don’t understand how you can draw parallels here.

To me it’s an easy parrallel, but I can understand it doesn’t fit for everyone. I think treating animals at the same level as humans is not warranted. I believe our lives are much more valuable than any dog. Again, I think what happened here is sick and wrong. I do not condone these actions!!!

Sadly I don’t believe in our justice system when it comes pro athletes and movie stars. We see it day in and day out. I guess my point should have been look at Ray Lewis, he was acquited. His friends took the fall for him and he got off scott free. I’m not saying he pulled the trigger.

Yahoo! Sports is reporting that the NFL will likely suspend Michael Vick for the entire 2007 season. Peter King of CNNSI says the NFL is only considering this option at this point in time.

If Vick is suspended for the entire season, my first reaction is that it is a little too severe. Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens was involved in a double homicide by stabbing, and did not receive a season-long suspension. Of course, that occurred under Paul Tagliabue’s watch, and current NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has made it clear that he will vigorously protect the League’s public image. That is why Goodell suspended Adam “Pac Man” Jones for the entire 2007 season.

As noted in my first post on this thread, I simply cannot equate the life of an animal with the life of a human being–that is what PETA does. That is why I think Vick, who is accused of dog-fighting, should not be punished at the same level as Pac Man, who is accused of being involved in, among other things, a shooting that left a man paralyzed. I find it ridiculous that the NFL would penalize Vick more severely than it did Ray “accessory to double homicide” Lewis.

However, the NFL is a business, and entirely dependent on public opinion to keep it profitable. From that point of view, suspending Vick for a year makes more sense.

I predict Vick never plays another down in the NFL again.

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Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens was involved in a double homicide by stabbing

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Poor analogy IMO……

I agree. What humans do amongst themselves is largely by choice. What choice did the animals have in this case?

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Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens was involved in a double homicide by stabbing

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Poor analogy IMO……

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Then what is wrong with my analogy?

I’m not sure what is hard to understand about it. Ray Lewis of Baltimore Ravens was involved in a double-stabbing in Atlanta. Two of his friends killed two other human beings with knives. The two killers made their getaway in Lewis’s limo with Lewis inside. Lewis initially lied to police and supported his friends’ alibi. As punishment for abetting his associates’ double-murder, Lewis was suspended for four games by the NFL.

Michael Vick may or may not receive a year-long suspension for aiding and abetting dog-fighting: Ray Lewis received a four-game suspension for aiding and abetting a double-homicide. I think aiding and abetting in the pointless death of human beings is a worse offense than aiding and abetting the death of animals, no matter how stupid the reason for killing those animals.

A lot of people think killing animals for no good reason is somehow worse than killing human beings for no good reason. I thought all those people belonged to PETA, but I was wrong.

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I agree. What humans do amongst themselves is largely by choice. What choice did the animals have in this case?

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For this argument to hold, we would have to conclude that the people killed by Ray Lewis’ friends chose to be killed. They chose to verbally confront Lewis’s crew, according to police reports, but I don’t think that calls for a death sentence.

Your argument, if followed to its logical conclusion, would hold that those fish in your profile pic are murder victims more deserving of justice than murdered human beings, since those fish had no more choice to be caught and put on a stringer than did Michael Vick’s pit bulls have a choice on whether to fight each other.

Your logic also implies that animals deserve MORE rights than human beings, because humans have free will and animals do not. This is classic PETA logic.

Animals are not the moral equal of humans, and thus they do not deserve the same rights as we do. Let me put it another way: domestic dogs are widely used in medical research in the United States. This is not analogous to Vick’s alleged offenses, since dog-fighting serves no useful purpose, and medical research does, as it saves human lives. I have no objection to sacrificing animal lives to save human lives, although I do not want the animals to suffer un-necessarily. I would NEVER support sacrificing human life to save animals, unless the human in question chose to do so. I am sure no one on this site disagrees with me on this. Why, then, does Michael Vick’s offense (taking animal life for no good reason) somehow warrant worse punishment than taking human life for no good reason?

there were no convictions in that double murder case. Lewis was convicted of obstruction, nothing else. the fight started when one of the deceased hit one of Lewis’s friend in the head with a champagne bottle. Lewis was not an accomplice in the murder and wasn’t charged as one.

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there were no convictions in that double murder case. Lewis was convicted of obstruction, nothing else. the fight started when one of the deceased hit one of Lewis’s friend in the head with a champagne bottle. Lewis was not an accomplice in the murder and wasn’t charged as one.

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Was just looking for the article as I saw this reply pop up. It is just another case of being accused of being guilty when not guilty of anything.

Steve,

Are you a PETA member undercover here???

Just kidding buddy!! While I agree it would be great if Vick never took another snap. I just don’t see it happening. Look at all the low lifes in the NFL and professional sports in general. The folks along with Baldwin/Kennedy/Lowhan/Hilton etc….are above the laws you and I abide by. I do hope your predication comes true.

No PETA member, just a crazy dog lover.
It’s an emotional thing for me. It sickens me to think about a guy making 6 million a year (doesn’t include endorsements) allegedly being involved in betting on and killing dogs. Why does someone with that kind of income have to be involved in the killing and torture of dogs for MONEY! I don’t get it! OK, he may not need the money so he does for sport?
There are at least 50 times in that indictment that Vick’s name is mentioned as being involved in this. I hope he saved some of Arthur Blank’s money. He’s going to need it.

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there were no convictions in that double murder case. Lewis was convicted of obstruction, nothing else. the fight started when one of the deceased hit one of Lewis’s friend in the head with a champagne bottle. Lewis was not an accomplice in the murder and wasn’t charged as one.

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Lewis was convicted of obstructing an investigation into a double homicide. That is worse than allowing one’s property to be used for dog-fighting.

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No PETA member, just a crazy dog lover.
It’s an emotional thing for me. It sickens me to think about a guy making 6 million a year (doesn’t include endorsements) allegedly being involved in betting on and killing dogs. Why does someone with that kind of income have to be involved in the killing and torture of dogs for MONEY! I don’t get it! OK, he may not need the money so he does for sport?

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Again, as I said in my original post on this thread several weeks ago, I do not think emotional responses on the Vick case should be accepted un-critically. Dogs, and all other non-human forms of life, do not deserve the same moral status as humans, regardless of how fond we (and I include myself here) are of them.

PETA’s stance on animal rights is flawed because it rests on emotion, not reason. That flawed reasoning gains them a lot of converts, and they are making hay (and money) on the Vick issue. I cannot bow hunt deer here in Iowa City because the animal rights activists succeeded in banning it on the grounds that it was inhumane. Here at the University of Iowa several million dollars of lab equipment was destroyed, along with several years of neurological research, when animal rights activists trashed a lab. Their justification was that rats and mice are helpless victims of humans, and deserve the same rights as the human patients the trashed lab research was intended to aid.

Not incidentally, PETA justifies its opposition to hunting and fishing in part on the grounds that no one in today’s society needs to hunt or fish for food…just like their is no financial need for Vick to fight pit bulls. Therefore, PETA holds that hunting and fishing inflict suffering on animals for no other reason than the amusement of humans…just like Michael Vick fought dogs for no reason other than his own amusement.

If outdoors-people stampede down the path of saying what Michael Vick is alleged to have done is as bad or worse than what Ray Lewis is alleged to have aided and abetted, then outdoors-people should not be surprised when the “dog lover” argument is thrown back at them in the form of “I’m just a crazy deer/fox/racoon/cows/fish/bees or whatever other animal humans are accused of exploiting lover”. (I once listened to two vegans argue about whether it was morally right for humans to eat honey, or use beeswax, because the bees’ products were being taken from them by we evil humans. Free the Bees!)

Arguing that Vick’s offense is somehow worse than obstructing the investigation into a double homicide sets a dangerous precedent for those of us who hunt, fish, or rely on medical research to improve our lives. (The last one would include all of us.) All I need to do is walk past the hospital at the University, or see the over-populated deer in Iowa City that I can’t hunt, to be reminded of what animal rights activists can do when emotion wins out over reason.

I didn’t read your last 3 post I didn’t have 2 hours …

Big difference is Lewis didn’t kill anybody he was out having a good time minding his own business when 2 thugs started talking CHIT to Lewis and after hitting Lewis’s thug friend over the head with a champane bottle things went bad…..his thugs friends snapped and the other thugs got stabbed.

Lewis didn’t kill anyone and he ended up telling the truth.

4 games “nfl suspension” sounds about right for that.

Also IMO Lewis didn’t deserve to go to jail nor did he.

IMO Vick does deserve to go to jail and WILL go to Prison for this.

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That is worse than allowing one’s property to be used for dog-fighting.

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Huh? it was lot more then allowing dog fighting on his property.

Vick set this operation up he knowingly and with premeditation engaged in a conspiracy to promote Dog fighting, he funded the operation bet on the fights and was present when the dogs were tortured and KILLED which is Federal crime hence the Federal indictment.

Read more here about the operation that Vick started along with the Torture methods of these animals and the 18 page indictment, all of co conspirators except Vick “he will soon” have pleaded guilty to these REAL crimes.

Vick operation and indictment

A year “nfl suspension” sounds about right and that will be the least of his problems.

I agree human life out weighs an animals but Lewis didn’t Kill anyone or I would agree with you.

Bad analogy IMO you bet.

Go ahead and whine some more if it makes you feel better.. he’s going to plead guilty and go to JAIL on this one, Sorry guys.